Afghanistan: Women

Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee Excerpts

Thursday 30th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

That is such an important point. The voices of Afghan women are suppressed in their own country, but we must provide platforms whenever we can to make sure that those voices are heard. I was very grateful to the Leader of the House recently for her enabling me to meet Malala here in our House. The right reverend Prelate is right, and we will continue to find whatever means we can to make sure that women in Afghanistan have the opportunity to speak on their own behalf.

[Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, how are we using our influence at the United Nations to deal with these issues, particularly around education? Without education, those young girls will continue to be exploited, be badly treated and be at the risk of being married off.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I am grateful for that question. My noble friend the Minister for the Middle East, North Africa, Afghanistan and Pakistan is using his convening mechanisms at the UN to raise these issues, garner international support and keep the spotlight on them. It is principally through these multinational fora that we are able to bring about the pressure that may be needed.

Embassy of China: Proposed New Site

Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I have so many jokes about size in my head at the moment— I am not going to go there. I note what my noble friend says. I do not think it is any surprise that China would want to have a substantial presence in London.

[Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)]

Will the Minister confirm that if planning conditions are put on this new embassy, compliance with them will be sought? In Belfast, we had breaches of planning regulations with the Chinese consulate, yet they claimed diplomatic immunity and did not comply with those planning regulations.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

It is very important that any conditions that might be imposed are complied with. The noble Baroness is absolutely right to make that point.

Chagos Islands

Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee Excerpts

Thursday 23rd January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

Of course we are aware that the ICJ ruling is advisory—we have discussed it many times in this House—but just because that ruling was advisory does not mean that there would not be future rulings. We believe that we are in a stronger position to negotiate ahead of a binding ruling than we would be waiting for one. Interestingly, the previous Government shared that view, which is why they commenced two years and 11 or 12 rounds of negotiations themselves. We are working very closely with the new Administration in the United States, and we will talk to them in great detail about what this deal means.

[Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, one of the groups that feels so alienated from this entire process is the Chagossians who live here in the United Kingdom. Since the deal was announced by the Government, there has been little to no engagement with that group. I plead with the Minister to engage with those people, who live here in the United Kingdom and have a clear view as to the way they want to see things happen.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

It is absolutely right that the noble Baroness raises the views of the Chagossian community, which has been badly treated over very many years. What matters now is that we are straightforward and upfront with them about what has been agreed, so that they do not feel that we are hiding things from them. We would be happy to engage with the Chagossian community. I believe my honourable friend Stephen Doughty, the Minister responsible for this arrangement, has met them in the recent past, but I will certainly take on board her encouragement that we do some more of that engagement.

Gaza: Peace Talks

Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee Excerpts

Wednesday 15th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

That is right. The United Kingdom Government stand ready to play a leading role in reconstruction and securing a stable Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel. Gaza’s recovery and reconstruction must be Palestinian led, though, and support for future governance of the Palestinian Authority in Gaza and maintaining the viability of a future Palestinian state are an important part of the UK’s approach.

[Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, to follow on from the last question, it is vital that a sustainable reconciliation process happens, hopefully after any peace deal. Bearing in mind what happened with us in Northern Ireland dealing with domestic terrorism, is it not important to set rules in relation to any elections that take place to any Palestinian Authority? Would not those rules have to include a commitment to non-violence and recognition of the State of Israel?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

These issues of reconciliation and truth and the process that needs to be undergone are fiendishly difficult, as the noble Baroness has experienced and which we can see when we look at any of these processes anywhere in the world, from Chile to South Africa to Northern Ireland—and I hope in the future in Israel-Gaza. She made her point very well.

Sudan: US Determination of Genocide

Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee Excerpts

Tuesday 14th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, as with all these things, there is much high politics, but meanwhile over 90% of children are not receiving schooling, as the Minister for Development in the other place pointed out yesterday. Can the Minister tell us some practical ways in which we can help those children to get the education they so desperately need?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

That is a really important point. Last summer my right honourable friend the Minister for Development, Anneliese Dodds, visited South Sudan on one of her first visits after her appointment. She got as close to the border as she could. She met many of the women and children who had been forced to flee and who had experienced the most awful violence. She has managed to secure a doubling of our aid to Sudan—it is now around £113 million—and that is for food, healthcare and, importantly, education, to make sure that those young people are educated as close to their homes as possible, because to miss out on that education just compounds the terrible circumstances in which they have found themselves.

British Indian Ocean Territory: Sovereignty

Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee Excerpts

Thursday 19th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

Yes, this was something we wanted to secure as part of the negotiations. It is intended that the Chagossians will have the right to resettlement on the outer islands, but not on Diego Garcia, because that is where the military base is sited, and the view is that that would not be feasible or in our national security interests. But the noble Baroness is quite right in what she says.

[Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as an adviser to the Friends of the British Overseas Territories charity. In the other place yesterday, the Minister repeatedly said that the interests of Chagossians were absolutely at the heart of this agreement. If that is so, why are so many Chagossians here campaigning against this deal? Will the noble Baroness respect the right to self-determination and grant the Chagossian people a referendum on the sovereignty of these islands?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

No, we will not be granting one. Bluntly, there is no point in stringing people along on these issues; that just compounds the wrong that has been done to them. The Chagos Islands have never been self-governing and the view among the Chagossian populations varies quite considerably. While there is a view among Chagossians here, we should be humble enough to accept that the largest Chagossian community is not in the UK but in Mauritius. That Chagossian community has been clear that it supports the deal, I suspect largely because of the point made my noble friend Lady Blackstone: that they would have that right to settle on the outer islands. The situation is not quite as straightforward as it is sometimes suggested.

Patrick Finucane

Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee Excerpts

Tuesday 30th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

It is my understanding that inquests can be restarted as soon as the necessary steps are taken. The Government do not seek to delay that any longer than is absolutely necessary, for reasons that I am sure the noble Baroness can appreciate.

[Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)]

First, I take this opportunity to welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, to her place dealing with Northern Ireland issues and look forward to working with her in the future. Today is the start of the Omagh bomb inquiry in Omagh, and I am sure the whole House will have the victims’ families in the forefront of their mind as they go through the start of what will be a very long procedure. Does the Minister agree that it is important that His Majesty’s Government never take any action or decision that would give the perception to victims right across Northern Ireland that some victims’ lives are worth more than others?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Foster, for her welcome. I note, as she did, that today is the start of investigations into what happened in Omagh. On her point about all victims being treated with equal respect and concern, of course she is right.

South Africa

Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee Excerpts

Tuesday 21st May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I will certainly look at my diary for 16 July. However, that might be the week of the EPC so I think we will be extremely busy welcoming about 50 Heads of State and Foreign Ministers to the UK. We work hard at this relationship. Obviously, where it went into reverse in some regards was during the period of President Zuma and the problems of state capture when, quite rightly, Britain sanctioned a series of individuals involved in that episode. President Ramaphosa has been trying to recover from that. That is why I said in my answer to the right reverend Prelate that we should try to help South Africa deal with some of the things that took it backwards under President Zuma.

[Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the Foreign Secretary will no doubt have noted with concern the growing relationship between South Africa and Iran. What is his assessment of the potential threat from that axis?

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

When we look in Iran’s region, it is obvious that it supports Hamas, the Houthis, Hezbollah and a whole series of malign actors that are responsible for terrorist attacks or attacks on navigation for destabilisation. While it is important that we try to have a dialogue with Iran and deliver some very tough messages to it, it is quite clear that its influence in the region is malign, and we make that clear at every opportunity.

Pakistan: UK Aid

Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2024 Grand Committee

[Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, first, I agree with that last sentiment concerning the Minister. From the short time I have been in this House, I know that he spends a lot of time dealing with these issues and has a passion for them, as we do, and I thank him for that. It is of course a huge pleasure and privilege to follow the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and to thank him for bringing this important Question for Short Debate, which concentrates our focus on how UK aid is used to support minorities better in Pakistan. At the outset, it is important to say how much I welcome the increase in overseas development aid. That provides our Government with an opportunity to do more to support minorities in a practical and meaningful way.

Looking at the aid profile for the year 2023-24, it has to be acknowledged that the Government did a lot with the budget they had. Priorities listed include climate vulnerability, gender inclusion and disability inclusion—all very laudable goals. There is much I can speak about this afternoon, but I want to spend the limited time I have looking at the issue of women and girls. There is, no doubt, a lot of work to be done in this area. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, referenced the work that the APPG has been doing on the bonded labour issue and he outlined the issues surrounding women and girls on that.

I make the point, as I did in my Question for Short Debate on global Christian persecution, that women and girls from a minority faith, whether it is Christian, Ahmadi Muslim, Hindu or Sikh, face a double marginalisation or a double injustice. That could be through people trafficking, gender-based violence, kidnapping, forced marriage and/or forced conversion. It is still shocking to me that, in our world today, young girls are being groomed, trafficked into sham marriage and then forced into conversion. The international development White Paper commits the UK to develop policies that are inclusive of people marginalised for their religion and belief, and I very much welcome that, but we need to turn this commitment into positive actions.

We know that Pakistan is the third least tolerant country in the world in terms of social acceptance of religious diversity, and that cannot be ignored. In terms of the treatment of women from minority religions, a survey taken by the Punjab Bureau of Statistics on the social and economic well-being of women has shown that they have a higher than average illiteracy, and that has persisted among minority women in the province—64% as opposed to 34%. Minority community members get into a cycle of illiteracy, unemployment, poverty, and early and often forced marriages. This can be broken only by getting good education, academic or technical, for children and especially for girls. It is even more difficult for Christian students to get places to study in higher education, if they are lucky enough to have education at primary level, because the good marks which are needed are often obtained by bribes, and most Christians do not have the financial resources to deal with bribery.

Recently the Punjab Government allocated 2% of seats in universities for minority students—of course, that is to be welcomed—but that is only one province, and the other provinces have no plans to help students from minority communities in this way. There are, of course, good missionary schools and colleges which could offer quality education for minority girls, and UK aid could be used to get education for minority girls in those schools and, in doing so, lift their families out of poverty. It would be great to hear from the Minister whether there are any plans to ring-fence a percentage of aid for minorities in Pakistan and use it for education and practical training for girls. That is in line with the Government’s goals, and indeed the existing minority schools could be utilised for this purpose.

Of course, education works only if the girls are free, and it is estimated that at least 1,000 girls belonging to Christian and Hindu faiths are abducted and forcibly married and converted each year. In some cases, such forced conversions are used as a smokescreen for other serious crimes such as human trafficking, forced prostitution and child abuse. As the mother of a daughter, whose birthday is today, I cannot imagine the pain that this causes to the child and the family of the child —yet it appears that very little help is available.

It would be a very positive sign of global leadership in this area if we could use the UK aid programmes as a tool to spread education among minority girls, so that they are aware of their rights and, importantly, to train police officers and judiciary members on the laws pertaining to this issue and how to treat such cases. The Minister will be aware that the Punjab police have set up Meesaq centres in police stations in areas with a large percentage of Christians, but it is important that these centres are staffed by trained individuals. Likewise, in education it would be important to train teachers in religious tolerance and to promote a positive image of coexistence.

In closing, I commend the tireless work of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and the APPG for the Pakistani Minorities. The increase in aid is a wonderful opportunity to reach out to the minority communities in Pakistan and cement the UK’s leadership role in our strong belief and commitment to freedom of religion for all by taking practical steps with the aid budget such as I have laid out in relation to training and education.

India: Freedom of Religion or Belief

Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee Excerpts

Tuesday 16th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a very good point about the rumbustious nature of Indian democracy. India should be proud of being the biggest democracy in the world. As with all democracies, there are imperfections—as there are in our own country. We should celebrate the scale of India’s democracy.

The point the noble Lord makes about the BBC is important. My understanding is that India passed a law insisting that digital media companies had to be Indian-owned, and the BBC has had to restructure on that basis. That is not the British way—insisting that all media have to be domestically owned—although I know that some in this place and elsewhere have been tempted by those moves; I have sometimes fantasised about that when reading things that I have read. None the less, that is the reason why the BBC has restructured, together with some disagreements with India.

I will take away and look at the point that the noble Lord then made about the trade deal. My understanding of where we are with the trade deal is that good market access has been offered on both sides, but not quite enough yet to secure a deal. It is important with such trade deals, as you only really get one proper shot at it, to make sure that it is a good enough deal that will be welcomed by industry leaders here in the UK as offering real market access. On the point on media access, I will have to go away and look at that. Personally, I would say that we should open up media access on both sides to make sure we have a good plurality of media.

[Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, first, I thank the right reverend Prelate for his continuing focus on Christian persecution and his comprehensive Truro report. In that report, it is noted that Foreign Office staff are often not equipped to deal with these terrible issues. A recommendation was made for mandatory training for all FCDO staff on religious diversity and inclusivity. The current training is not mandatory—perhaps the Foreign Secretary could tell us why.

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for that question. I shall have to take that one away and look at it. There is a lot of diversity training in the FCDO, and there is a dedicated number of staff for dealing with freedom of religious belief questions, but I shall certainly ask the specific question about whether the training is included in this area.