Afghanistan: Women

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Thursday 30th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Ramsey of Wall Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend and with her permission, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in her name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)]

My Lords, we remain in regular dialogue with international partners on Afghanistan, including using international mechanisms to maintain pressure on the Taliban to change course. The Minister for the Middle East, North Africa, Afghanistan and Pakistan hosted a round table in New York on 20 January with the UN and permanent representatives of key countries. This month, we also pledged our political support to refer the Taliban to the International Court of Justice.

[Baroness Ramsey of Wall Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to His Majesty’s Government for referring Afghanistan’s violation of human rights to the International Court of Justice. However, the women of Afghanistan are in desperate need of urgent action to prevent the ban on attending medical schools having a long-term impact on the availability of female medical staff. It will have far-reaching consequences for women’s health outcomes, which are already dire. Can the Minister expand on what steps the Government have taken to ensure that women in Afghanistan will continue to be able to access women’s health services, despite the ban?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

As my noble friend says, the situation is extremely difficult, and we are relying in large part on our partners on the ground to be able to support women in the most horrendous of circumstances. Let us remember that the ban that she refers to comes on top of laws requiring women to be veiled at all times in public, banning women from singing, reciting or reading aloud in public, forbidding them to look at men they are not related to and strictly enforcing male escorts for women. The situation is intolerable, and it is good that we have supported taking this to the ICJ. In the meantime, we are doing everything we can on the ground to support women in Afghanistan.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, the brave Afghan women who peacefully protest against these brutal policies have been threatened, arrested, forcibly disappeared, detained and tortured. Their voices must be heard. They want concrete and effective measures against the Taliban. They do not want the Taliban to be granted any legitimacy and normalisation of their oppressive rule under the guise of engagement—those are their words. Do His Majesty’s Government agree that targeted sanctions, refusal to recognise this repressive regime and unwavering support for women’s resistance in Afghanistan are the minimum actions that the international community must take in good faith?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We are extremely careful about the way that we engage with Afghanistan. The noble Baroness knows that we recognise states and not Governments. On sanctions, we implement the UN sanctions. We have some very limited engagement with the Taliban to bring about some of the changes that we want to see and to make these points about women and human rights, but as she will know, this is incredibly difficult. We are working for the large part through international partners on the ground to make sure that we get humanitarian aid to support people today.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

My Lords, these measures are taken by men with an absolute lack of transparency and without any involvement of those concerned, and they are clearly aimed at excluding women and girls from public life. Following on from what has been said, are the Government actively meeting female Afghan leaders to hear their perspectives? Will the UK Government help female Afghans to be part of the international talks so that they are able to play a part in the future of the country?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

That is such an important point. The voices of Afghan women are suppressed in their own country, but we must provide platforms whenever we can to make sure that those voices are heard. I was very grateful to the Leader of the House recently for her enabling me to meet Malala here in our House. The right reverend Prelate is right, and we will continue to find whatever means we can to make sure that women in Afghanistan have the opportunity to speak on their own behalf.

[Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, how are we using our influence at the United Nations to deal with these issues, particularly around education? Without education, those young girls will continue to be exploited, be badly treated and be at the risk of being married off.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I am grateful for that question. My noble friend the Minister for the Middle East, North Africa, Afghanistan and Pakistan is using his convening mechanisms at the UN to raise these issues, garner international support and keep the spotlight on them. It is principally through these multinational fora that we are able to bring about the pressure that may be needed.

[Baroness D'Souza (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister outline which areas of the Government’s influence are more likely to have effect in dealing with the Taliban? By mechanisms of influence, I am talking about direct interaction with the Taliban.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

For reasons that we have touched on today, that is incredibly difficult. The focus for us when it comes to Afghan women is to make sure that the eyes of the world are on this issue and that we get the aid to them now, because the need is desperate. That is why we are planning £161 million in aid to Afghanistan this financial year.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, the situation for women in Afghanistan is truly dreadful, and I am sure the whole House agrees that there are no easy or simple solutions. Perhaps the Minister could expand on the answer she gave earlier on whether the Government have considered targeted sanctions or providing diplomatic incentives to encourage the Taliban to change course.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We consider anything that might work. Obviously, we do not comment on future sanctions designations, but I can say that we keep the situation under very close review.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest that I share with many Members of your Lordships’ House in that I am an ambassador for the Halo Trust. In a speech 10 days ago, the Deputy Foreign Minister of Afghanistan described his own Government’s prohibitions on female education as

“committing an injustice against 20 million people”

and he asserted that restrictions on female education run counter to both the wishes of the Prophet and sharia law. What assessment have the Government made of internal divisions within the Afghan Government on this question, as well as our diplomatic capacity to encourage those who seek to widen the parameters of women’s rights under the Taliban? On extending the parameters of women’s rights and other rights under the Taliban, if the Government have not done so, I suggest that they would do well to speak to James Cowan, the CEO of the Halo Trust, who has established a great spread of engagement in that regard.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I support everything my noble friend has said about the Halo Trust and the phenomenal work that it has been able to do in the most difficult circumstances. I commend to the House the initiative taken in Pakistan recently on the importance of education of women and girls within Islam and how it is such a concern. It is a strong initiative. It is difficult to say that any one event, conference or intervention is going to have the effect that we all wish to see, but I hope that, by continuing to support such gatherings and the making of these cases, we can, over time, have the impact that we want.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, we have had the 2020 Afghanistan sanctions for four years now. There are a number of exceptions to those sanctions, justifiable for assuring the delivery of humanitarian aid, but any exceptions can be abused. In light of the more recent examples that my noble friend gave, have the Government reviewed the exceptions and the sanctions that have been in place for four years to ensure that they are up to date and there is no circumvention, and that those individuals who are restricting the rights of women, as we have been discussing, are not able to profit from circumventing sanctions?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

As I have said, we keep this issue under close review. The noble Lord is right to highlight the most recent restrictions around medical education. We are working as hard as we can to make sure that we are still able to get the aid to where it needs to get to, and we have made a point of making sure that at least half the aid that we get into the country goes directly to women and girls.