Dangerous Dogs Act 1991: New Breeds

Debate between Baroness Fookes and Lord Benyon

Thursday 14th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a very good point. Under the Dangerous Dogs Act, there is an exemption procedure whereby the person can keep the dog provided that they stick to various conditions, such as it being taken out on a lead and wearing a muzzle. Of course, that does not solve the problem entirely. We want to see these dogs removed. There are ways of doing that and very serious penalties, including up to 14 years in prison, for people who break those rules. We are talking to the National Association of Police Chiefs and making sure that we are doing everything in the realm of the possible but our priority is to get dangerous dogs off the streets.

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted that my noble friend is taking such urgent action on this. I suggest that he should be more radical when looking at the Dangerous Dogs Act. It is time that that was sent to the knacker’s yard and a new system instituted altogether. I say this with some regret because I was the one who introduced it in the other place in the first place.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I know that the Act is sometimes held up as a poster boy for the malign effect of knee-jerk legislative reaction to a terrible incident. However, as I said, the pit bull terrier, the Japanese Tosa, the Dogo Argentino and the Fila Brasileiro—the four species banned under the Act—are not breeds that have been involved in these awful attacks. One could therefore argue that there may have been more attacks if they had not been banned, but we are looking to make this effective and we want urgent action.

Hunting Trophies (Import Prohibition) Bill

Debate between Baroness Fookes and Lord Benyon

Committee stage
Tuesday 12th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, we have already spent a considerable time on this first amendment. I take what I think is a minority view about the purpose of Committee: it is to look, in detail, at amendments to improve a Bill or reject various parts of it, as the case may be. Speeches should be closely argued on the amendment concerned, or the amendments if they are grouped, and they should be concise. The time spent on this amendment has been miniscule in comparison with the time spent on what were, in effect, Second Reading speeches. I am sorry, but I deplore that as a Committee issue.

I turn then to the actual amendment. It gives the Secretary of State the requirement, not just once but each year, to make

“a statement in writing to the effect that, in the Secretary of State’s view, its operation will not cause unintended and perverse consequences for wildlife conservation”.

I once chaired the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, and I was always very wary of giving the Government, Secretaries of State or anybody else unfettered discretion to do things. This seems to me to fall into that category, because there is not even a whiff of parliamentary scrutiny. For that reason, I am very much opposed to this and, as I wish to be concise, I will sit down and leave the Minister to speak.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, for tabling and moving this amendment, and the other Peers who have proposed amendments. However, I must say that the Government are disappointed that the House has not thus far been able to agree a way forward for this important legislation. My experience is that there is always a deal to be done, and I hope we may yet find some way forward. I was interested to hear the words of the noble Lord, Lord Turnbull, whose experience in these matters is hugely valued. I will take up any opportunity to find a way forward.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, your Lordships will probably not be surprised that I do not agree with my noble friend Lord Mancroft on this. I prefer the fact that there is a wider scope with the wildlife trade regulations annexes A and B. If they do not cause a problem, nobody will worry about that. I was amused by my noble friend Lord Mancroft and his molluscs, but I really do not think it is of any significance whatever. However, what I do notice is that as we go through the various amendments, a little bit here and a little bit there is chipped away, and if they were all accepted, we would see something very different indeed. Therefore, I stand by the Bill as it stands.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My Lords, I set out earlier my thoughts on these amendments. My noble friend Lord Lucas is a very intelligent and assiduous parliamentarian and raises an important point. But I suggest that this amendment is not necessary, because the species in scope are provided for in Clause 2. Notwithstanding what my noble friend Lord Mancroft says, that is for the simplicity of the functioning of the Bill, so I hope I can persuade my noble friend Lord Lucas to withdraw his amendment.

Live Animals: Export Ban

Debate between Baroness Fookes and Lord Benyon

Monday 10th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

No, I am hoping that it will be a government Bill.

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend has managed to assuage my wrath, for the time being. That is probably very unkind, because in the past I think he has been more the messenger than the author of the non-activity. None the less, can he tell all those involved in this matter that we and all those who are interested in animal welfare will be watching the timetable for this with the eyes of a number of hawks—so he had better deliver?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I sit in awe of my noble friend’s determination, and I want to make sure that there is no wrath in her. I gently remind her that we have a very good record on animal welfare. We have delivered in primary legislation the Animal Welfare (Sentencing) Act, the Animal Welfare (Sentience) Act, the Animals (Penalty Notices) Act, the Ivory Act 2018, which came into force in 2022, as well as measures to crack down on hare coursing—and with her assistance and that of the Government, the Glue Traps (Offences) Act. We will deliver many of the items of the kept animals Bill in a variety of ways, including through Private Members’ Bills, and we will make sure that they are on the statute book soon.

Farm Animal Welfare

Debate between Baroness Fookes and Lord Benyon

Monday 26th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

Perhaps I may take issue with my noble friend about the export of animals for slaughter, which has been a concern of mine for more years than I now care to remember. This is a good time to do it when nothing much is happening; that could change overnight. What is more, countries such as Australia are seriously considering operating such a ban. Here, we could give a good lead, and if the Government want to be at the forefront, now is the time to do it.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend. She is not taking issue with me; she is pushing at an open door. This is a manifesto commitment and in our animal welfare action plan, and we want to do it.

Glue Traps (Offences) Bill

Debate between Baroness Fookes and Lord Benyon

3rd reading
Tuesday 26th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, very briefly, I want to congratulate everyone who has been involved in bringing forward this important Bill. The noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, has done us all a service in bringing it to your Lordships’ House—as did Jane Stevenson in the other place. So I welcome the Bill and thank the Government for their support.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady Fookes for her hard work in guiding this Bill through the House. I congratulate her on progressing the Bill to this stage with such determined enthusiasm. I am grateful to all the noble Lords who contributed at Second Reading, and I am pleased that the Bill has been widely supported across the House. I also thank my honourable friend Jane Stevenson, the Member of Parliament for Wolverhampton North East, for successfully stewarding the Bill through the other place.

We have been clear that high standards of animal welfare are one of the hallmarks of a civilised society. We already have some of the highest animal welfare standards in the world, but this Bill takes forward an important commitment in the Government’s action plan for animal welfare to restrict the use of glue traps and make sure that, when rodents are dispatched, it is done in a humane manner. Throughout the Bill’s passage we have heard about the extreme suffering that can be inflicted by these traps, and it is right to take them out of the hands of amateurs and ensure that they are used only by professional pest controllers when absolutely necessary, where there is a risk to public health or safety and there is no satisfactory alternative.

As well as thanking my noble friend Lady Fookes and my honourable friend Jane Stevenson for their dedicated work in progressing this Bill, I am grateful to the Conservative Animal Welfare Foundation for its support as we progress this important legislation. I also extend my thanks to all the animal welfare organisations, pest control organisations and suppliers that have engaged with my officials throughout the passage of the Bill. I know that my officials are looking forward to continuing their engagement with these organisations as the details of the licensing regime are rolled out. This Bill will add a vital part to our animal welfare legislation, and I look forward to seeing it on the statute book.

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, I think everything has been said. Let us pass it.

Glue Traps (Offences) Bill

Debate between Baroness Fookes and Lord Benyon

2nd reading
Friday 25th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, in turn, I thank all those who took part in this debate. I also thank the Minister. I was much encouraged by most of his remarks. The old schoolteacher in me says, “Seven out of 10”.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I will take that.

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

One query about bodies corporate was not answered by the Minister. My understanding is that this is simply to ensure that corporations cannot get away with it because they are corporations and so can give the blame to somebody else, which is why there is a reference to particular senior people in a corporation who would have to take the blame if anything happened.

The noble Baroness made another point, which I did not quite get, but which related to the paragraphs about inspectors on premises. I know these look rather detailed, but the idea is to make sure that nobody has any wiggle room. They perhaps rather overegg the pudding, but better that than to underegg, in the circumstances.

I very much hope that the Bill goes through unamended, because of the danger that it would otherwise be lost altogether. I will be closely following the speed with which the department acts in dealing with these matters and the care that it takes in drawing up the conditions attached to licences. I forewarn my noble friend the Minister that I will be after him if progress does not seem satisfactory.

Hunting Trophies

Debate between Baroness Fookes and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My Lords, there is a Bill coming forward relating to issues of animals abroad. That will be published in the near future. The noble Baroness would not expect me to second-guess parliamentary procedures, but it will be introduced soon.

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, given that there are suspicions arising that certain other animal welfare aspects are to be dropped from the Bill to which my noble friend refers, will he forgive me if I say that I entertain considerable suspicions as to whether the Government are back-tracking?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My noble friend’s question suggests that she has the advantage on me and a greater understanding of the pre-legislative discussions that are going ahead. As far as I am concerned, what was in the manifesto will be brought forward in a Bill in the near future.