Queen’s Speech

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Wednesday 8th May 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Speaker (Baroness D’Souza)]

My Lords, I have to acquaint the House that Her Majesty was pleased this morning to make a most gracious Speech from the Throne to both Houses of Parliament assembled in the House of Lords. Copies of the gracious Speech are available in the Printed Paper Office. I have, for the convenience of the House, arranged for the terms of the gracious Speech to be published in the Official Report.

Motion for an Humble Address

Moved by Lord Lang of Monkton

That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as follows:

“Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty’s most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament”.

Death of a Member: Baroness Thatcher

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Wednesday 10th April 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Speaker (Baroness D'Souza)]

My Lords, I regret to inform the House of the death of the noble Baroness, Lady Thatcher, on 8 April. On behalf of the House, I extend our most sincere condolences to the noble Baroness’s family and friends.

Queen’s Speech

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Wednesday 9th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Speaker]

My Lords, I have to acquaint the House that Her Majesty was pleased this morning to make a most gracious Speech from the Throne to both Houses of Parliament assembled in the House of Lords. Copies of the gracious Speech are available in the Printed Paper Office. I have, for the convenience of the House, arranged for the terms of the gracious Speech to be published in the Official Report.

Motion for an Humble Address

Moved by

Housing (Scotland) Act 2010 (Consequential Provisions and Modifications) Order 2012

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, it is always nice to have my speeches quoted and of course we could do this all day. The noble Baroness could quote my rather good speeches and I could quote her equally good ones. In fact, I will requote what I also said to the noble Baroness in that same speech: that she had,

“rightly pointed out that there is a long established position that this House does not insist on an amendment where the other place cites financial privilege, and no one, least of all me, is trying to change that”.—[Official Report, 25/11/08; col. 1359.]

I rest my case.

[The Lord Speaker (Baroness D'Souza)]

My Lords, the question is that the original three Motions in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, be agreed to en bloc.

Motions agreed.

Lord Speaker: Baroness Hayman

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Monday 5th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Haskel]

My Lords, I have had the honour and privilege of working as one of the noble Baroness’s deputies for five years. During that time, she was genuinely concerned about her deputies. She worried about whether we got home on time or had had something to eat if the House sat late. Never since I was a teenager has somebody worried about that on my behalf. I am most thankful to her and look forward to working with the new Lord Speaker.

[The Lord Speaker (Baroness D'Souza)]

My Lords, I am extremely happy that my first task in the Chamber today is to add to the tributes already paid to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. The noble Baroness has, as we have already heard, fashioned a role over the last five years into which I can now step with great gratitude. No one should underestimate what hard work it has taken to build such a successful programme, one that I would now like to continue—and even, perhaps in some areas, expand. It is clear from today’s tributes how much we owe the former Lord Speaker and how much she is now welcomed as a Back-Bencher and, particularly, as a Cross-Bencher.

Afghanistan

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I warmly welcome the tribute to British servicemen that my noble friend Lord Dholakia has made. The question of mediation is really interesting. My noble friend used the word “catalyst” and made a comparison with Northern Ireland. One of the problems with Northern Ireland was that no one was willing to talk to anybody. The Afghanis have made it clear that preliminary contacts are taking place and we should all welcome that, although of course I am not in a position to go into operational details about it. It must be an Afghan-led process and, as I said to the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, at this stage we would be nervous about putting in place another ingredient when talks have already started and contacts have been made. There seems to be a very positive air about progress and we should wish it success.

[Baroness D'Souza]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Leader for repeating the Statement and, indeed, I associate the Cross-Benchers with the tributes that have been paid to our courageous soldiers in Afghanistan.

I think it is widely accepted that women in Afghanistan have had a pretty bad time over the past centuries and particularly during the era of the Taliban. The Afghan Women’s Network, which is a very respected organisation, wishes to carry out, through many of the women’s groups that exist throughout the country, a nationwide survey of their hopes and fears with a view to bringing those views to the hugely important conference that is to take place in Bonn in December this year. Unfortunately, the Afghan Women’s Network does not have the resources to carry out the survey. We all know that the British Government are giving an enormous amount of aid to Afghanistan—aid that, in particular, is hugely supportive of women and women’s networks. Unfortunately, much of the aid that goes via the Government does not trickle down to the Afghan Women’s Network or similar groups. It is deeply important that this survey should be carried out because it means that the views of millions of women across Afghanistan can be brought to the conference in Bonn in December and that their views will be at the centre of the conference rather than just on the margins and can form part of the agreement that is reached following that conference. Can the noble Lord the Leader of the House try to ensure that the funds are made available to the Afghan Women’s Network so that they can carry out this survey?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness the Convenor of the Cross Benches for what she has said. She is right about the problems facing the people of Afghanistan. Over a third of Afghanistan’s people live in poverty, and Afghanistan remains 155th of 169 countries on the UN’s 2010 Human Development Index. But—it is a small but, because it is good news—the UK Government through DfID will commit £712 million to Afghanistan over the course of the next four financial years; and in 2010-11 5.7 million children are attending school—nearly half a million more than last year—and 37 per cent of those attending are girls.

None of that solves the issue that the noble Baroness raised on the Afghan Women’s Network, which wishes to carry out this survey. I am sure that it is an extremely good idea. Perhaps the best way for me to proceed would be to draw the noble Baroness’s words to the attention of the Secretary of State of DfID to see whether, through his organisation, this is something the department would see some benefit in.

House of Lords: Working Practices

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D'Souza]

My Lords, this is a comprehensive, imaginative and authoritative report, and the group is to be congratulated. If only half the recommendations were implemented, they would transform this House, making it more effective in getting business through, making better use of the talents of the Members and meaning better scrutiny and more opportunities for all Members to contribute. It is quite an achievement on the part of the noble Lord, Lord Goodlad, and indeed the group.

The broad themes of the report are saving time, ensuring that the Back-Bench voice is heard, more accountability on the part of Government and better scrutiny. I understand that many of the recommendations contained in the report could well be implemented in the near future, while others will require more discussion and even legislation.

I shall speak briefly about the reforms about which I trust there will be less dissent and which might thus go ahead speedily. These are about providing more opportunity for scrutiny and thus enhancing accountability. More specifically, I am referring to: pre-legislative scrutiny and post-legislative scrutiny; a legislative standards committee; and the setting up of two cross-cutting Select Committees on domestic policy. These three recommendations are all concerned with ensuring that legislation that comes before the House has already undergone a fair degree of scrutiny—in the case of post-legislative committees, the lessons learnt will also feed back over time to legislative drafting—and that some contradictions at least will have been resolved.

Furthermore, the main task of a legislative standards committee, as envisaged by the group, would be to assess the technical and procedural compliance of government Bills with the standards of best practice in Bill preparation. The recommendation has force because it would also allow the House to decide whether or not a given Bill was granted a Second Reading, and that is a pretty strong force. Another striking feature of that recommendation is that it would involve the public in providing evidence. This could of course slow down legislation but surely it is preferable to the current system, which tends to foster prolonged and sometimes bitter arguments in the Chamber, which is extremely time costly and not constructive. Nor would a check on the torrent of legislation necessarily be a bad thing.

Pre-legislative scrutiny takes place already, of course, but much less so than was promised in 2003. Today the average number of Bills subject to pre-legislative scrutiny is three, compared with 10 in the 2002-03 Session, though I hear what the noble Lord the Leader has said about very recent arrangements.

Recommendations 14 and 15 of the report make it clear that all Bills embodying important changes of policy, especially constitutional Bills, should be subject to pre-legislative scrutiny. The recommendation goes further in making it a requirement, if there has been inadequate public consultation, for the Government to justify any decision not to produce a Bill in draft. There is, after all, ample evidence that such scrutiny has proved a very useful tool for both Ministers and officials.

I shall take a brief look at committees. The report proposes two additional sessional Select Committees and sets out criteria, among which are that they be cross-departmental and composed of Members who have particular expertise and that they complement the Commons departmental Select Committees. I earnestly hope that that will not be a controversial recommendation. It would require additional resources but I really think that the return on any investment would be substantial. Scrutiny of domestic policies is not well catered for and cross-cutting inquiries even less so, yet most domestic issues are cross-cutting. Day in and day out we debate in this Chamber policies and Bills that touch on myriad interests, to the extent that many Bills could be viewed as hybrid. For example, the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill incorporates local funding, decentralisation, foreign policy, security, the disabled, transport and licensing laws, to name but a few areas.

The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, has argued in the past for three cross-cutting committees to cover public service, national infrastructure and welfare. His rationale is that the cross-cutting nature of the committees would enable broader inquiries than are presently undertaken by the other place, and he indicates that a public services committee would encompass public service employment and recruitment policies, the application of market mechanisms and devolution within public services, accountability processes and the role of local government across the public services. In the noble Lord’s view, the reports resulting from those committees would provide valuable material for subsequent topical debates and questions from the Floor of the House. I wholly agree.

I believe that additional committees with undoubted experts and sufficient resources would result in reports of immense value to this House, the Government and the other place. I very much hope that the Government will agree that this is not a controversial matter and could be implemented very soon.

The report, which addresses how the House deals with legislation, is of paramount concern and priority. When it is implemented, this House will be far more effective in its chief role of scrutinising legislation and holding the Government to account. I sincerely hope that this will happen in the near future.

Procedure of the House: Select Committee Report

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, I was a member of the Leader’s Group, chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, to whom I pay tribute for his leadership of the group. He led it with great distinction and I very much support the conclusions of the group and the recommendations of the Chairman of Committees’ Procedure Committee report before the House today. I also welcome the initial and positive response of the Leader of the House, the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, when the report was first published. We on this side certainly support the Motion before the House.

I shall follow the noble Lord, Lord Steel, but in rather a different vein. The note in the report to the House says that the Procedure Committee has not considered those elements of the Leader’s Group recommendations, such as the provision to override entitlement to a Writ of Summons, the scheme of associate membership and extension of legislation. Nor has the committee considered the financial aspects of any scheme for voluntary retirement, which, if the House agreed to the report, would be a matter for the House Committee. I do not know if the House Committee will consider this report, but I imagine it will need to consider the implications very carefully.

I return to the issue of the potential for primary legislation. I hesitate to return to last week’s enjoyable debate on reform of your Lordships’ House. I realise that the Chairman of Committees cannot speak for the Government; perhaps we can tempt the noble Lord the Leader of the House to intervene helpfully in this debate. However, I wonder whether the Government have given thought to the potential for primary legislation on the issues to which I have just referred. The Government may take the view that they took last week on the Private Member’s Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Steel: since they have published a draft Bill on substantive reform, they cannot contemplate the noble Lord’s Bill. That, in essence, would accept that the Government do not think they will get very far with their own substantive Bill. Having been there myself, I understand the line that the noble Lords, Lord Strathclyde and Lord McNally, used last week.

However, it is just possible that, at the end of the work of the Joint Committee chaired by my noble friend, the Government might decide to pause on reform. We might not see a substantive Bill before your Lordship’s House in the next Session of Parliament. In that case, there must surely come a point where the matters in this report and the items covered by the Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Steel, ought to be considered. If we simply carry on in a situation in which Governments cannot contemplate sensible interim changes because they will always have a proposal for substantive reform on the table at some point, the business of this House will become more and more difficult.

All I should like to do is to invite the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, to give some consideration to these matters. It may, in his eyes, be extremely unlikely that the Government will not proceed with a substantive Bill in the next year. However, there will come a point when such sensible interim reforms need to be considered.

[Baroness D'Souza]

My Lords, we can wring our hands about the House being too large. We may, unintentionally but unfairly, have made newly appointed Peers feel less than welcome, but until now there has been no serious consideration of what might be done. This is, therefore, a much needed report and a step forward. The real difficulties with which the group has had to grapple are very clear, but at least the issue is now being addressed.

The only feasible option is that of voluntary retirement. However, in common with the noble Lords, Lord Steel and Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, I feel this cannot be achieved in significant numbers in the absence of some form of payment. I recognise that there is a public perception issue here about additional costs. However, we may be looking at a saving. My maths may be somewhat different from that of the noble Lord, Lord Steel, but the outcome is the same. By my reckoning, if a Peer attends even irregularly—on, say, 100 out of 150 days—at the lower daily rate of £150, the cost over a year would amount to something like £15,000, plus travel costs of around £2,000. We are looking at something like £85,000 over five years.

Why would it not be possible to make the saving and offer something between £20,000 and £30,000 in order to promote and encourage Peers to take voluntary retirement—voluntary is a word that might not always be entirely appropriate here? It would be a major incentive for many Peers who have given years of service, some at the expense perhaps of a full professional salary, and would most probably achieve what this excellent report aims to do. However, for this to be effective there must also be a moratorium on appointing new Members and possibly a cap on numbers for the future.

The House is too large. It will be pointed out that many turn up only irregularly, but perception is important. As long as the media continue to talk about a House of well over 800 we will continue to appear ridiculously overstaffed. For this reason those who rarely attend should be asked in no uncertain terms to avail themselves of the retirement option. As I said before in this Chamber, there are a few among the Cross-Benchers who have not shown their faces for something like 10 years, which is ridiculous. I also feel that those who, through infirmity, are unable to attend might welcome the option of a dignified retreat from this House with the offer of some dining rights plus a lump sum. I think that the Cross-Benchers could be reduced by something like 30 Members, which would be very welcome news to those who think that there are too many of us. The truth is that over the past 10 years there has been a net gain of 55 Cross-Benchers, which is just over five a year. I do not think that that is a flood.

We will have to bite the bullet, grasp the nettle, acknowledge that one cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs. Leaders of each of the groups will have to approach those who attend very rarely, or make no contribution to the work of the House, with a firm proposal to take up the option of retirement, but this can be done only, in fairness, if there is to be some monetary compensation.

[The Lord Bishop of Birmingham]

My Lords, in our response to the draft Bill on House of Lords reform, we on these Benches identified the increasing size of the House as one issue demanding particular attention. I therefore welcome this report and hope that many of its recommendations, especially those on voluntary retirement, will be given swift and serious attention. The proposal for some kind of financial remuneration, which has already been mentioned by noble Lords, especially for those who have given much of their working life in service to this Chamber but have gained no pension provision in return is, I think, a just solution and one that is likely to speed the implementation of what would be a voluntary process. Of course, the details of that, as we have already heard, have many ramifications.

Unlike roughly 96.5 per cent of this House I am already able to retire, although under the present arrangements I have no intention of doing so until 14 April 2022. Retired Lords spiritual have access to the House and its facilities and I hope that, in respect of the provisions, that might provide a model for others. I notice also that the report ventures into areas other than the remit of retirement. I would be grateful if at some stage the Chairman of Committees or the Leader of the House would be able to confirm whether the recommendations of paragraphs 64 and 67, which call for limited-term appointments and restraint to be exercised by parties in creating new appointments, will also be given careful consideration alongside the retirement provisions.

House of Lords: Reform

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D'Souza]

My Lords, this is a document that we should take seriously. It is, after all, signed by the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister. That said, a number of contradictions and gaps in the text of both the White Paper and the draft Bill will need attention. No doubt, that forensic scrutiny will begin today. I should like to focus on just one aspect: the premise that elections are necessary because of a democratic deficit in this House.

It is widely accepted within this House that its major function is to revise and scrutinise legislation. Therefore, the issue has to be: what can be done to enhance this important function and make it more effective? The answer that this White Paper and draft Bill appear to offer is elections. I have no doubt that there will be 80, or perhaps 100 or more, contributions today and tomorrow that refute this, but the question of a democratic element is very important.

Perhaps I may briefly recap. We have our main function, which is scrutiny, and we have what should be the main purpose of the proposed Bill, which is enhanced effectiveness. We are now adding to the mix the democratic element. The next question is: are elections the only way in which to achieve a democratic element to address what the Government apparently see as a democratic deficit? My response to both those questions is that I do not believe that there is a democratic deficit or that elections are the only form of democracy. That of course needs justifying. How do the Lords reflect the wishes, needs or rights of the wider public and how can they do it better, and how do the public influence the work that this Chamber undertakes?

Paragraph 216 of the Report of the Leader’s Group on Working Practices is worth paraphrasing here. It says that,

“the diversity and range of interests of Members of the House of Lords, as well as their active involvement in the world beyond Parliament, mean that for many outside organisations and groups it is easier to establish relationships with Members of this House than with MPs”.

It continues that such relationships complement those between MPs and constituents. This, I feel, accurately reflects the huge outreach that this House has on a daily basis with hundreds of special interest groups. Furthermore, much of the wisdom that is brought to bear on legislation in this House is minutely informed by these specialist groups. It could, I think, be fairly argued that there is already a democratic procedure whereby the wider public can, and do, lobby Members of this House and succeed in changing and improving legislation to meet the needs of that public on an almost daily basis. That is not to be sniffed at.

Of course, MPs bring their constituents’ concerns to Parliament, but I would guess that there is greater opportunity to change legislation according to the expertise of specialist groups in this House because it is less political, because it is less fiercely whipped, because it does not have to deal with the concerns of individual constituents each and every day and because it is not elected.

This House is—one can never tire of repeating this mantra—different from the other place in almost every respect, but this difference stems from its function. You cannot make it similar to the other place and continue to believe or hope that its functions will somehow be improved. They will not; they will be undermined, and so severely that the growing belief that this Bill is about abolishing the House of Lords gains more credence every day.

In the past few months, reforms to many of the institutions in this country that the public hold dear, including voting mechanisms, public bodies, education and the NHS, have come before this House, which has in many cases upheld the concerns, even the wishes, of the public. What come to mind are Clause 11 of and Schedule 7 to the Public Bodies Bill, which sought to abolish, among other organisations, the Forestry Commission, the chief coroner and associated offices. It was the House of Lords that took on board the public concern and acted on it, and it still does so. I do not think that you can argue that this House is undemocratic when it so clearly acts in the public interest.

Other mechanisms whereby the public voice is heard in the Lords Chamber include the introduction of private legislation supported by community organisations that cover significant sectors, such as the disabled, refugees, victims of forced marriages and indeed of slavery, the unfairly defamed or dangerous dogs.

I have said little about genuine reforms that most of your Lordships agree would make for a more effective House. Many of these are set out in the Leader’s report on working practices, which will be debated in this Chamber next week. I just wish to make it abundantly clear here and now that there is ample room for reform on matters such as retirement, appointment procedures, increasing pre-legislative and post-legislative scrutiny, and cross-cutting Select Committees, but elections are the one thing that this House really does not need.

His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Wednesday 8th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D'Souza]

My Lords, nine decades is a long time and covers a great deal of ground and change. It is my happy task, on behalf of the Cross-Bench Peers, to wish His Royal Highness a very happy birthday and many congratulations on reaching such a venerable age, while at the same time confounding all the stereotypical views we hold of someone facing his 10th decade. Far from being a gnarled old man, the Duke has retained his bounce and his interest in life. His robust sense of humour has added a welcome informality to official occasions. A reported conversation at a press reception to mark the Golden Jubilee in 2002 went something like this. The Duke said to a journalist, “Who are you?”. “I’m the editor in chief of the Independent, sir”, replied one Peter Kellner. “What are you doing here?”. “You invited me, sir”. “Well, you didn’t have to come”. How can exchanges of this kind not but add to the gaiety of nations?

More seriously, the Duke of Edinburgh, with his originality of thought and readiness to challenge accepted truths, has played a key role in modernising the monarchy, encouraging, as we have heard, millions of the young to undertake challenges. He has made significant contributions to conservation and undertaken the patronage of more than 800 organisations, as we have also already heard. Above all, he has been a steady and ever present consort to Her Majesty the Queen. Long may he continue in this and his many other roles.

Once again, on behalf of the Cross-Bench Peers, I am privileged to join all sides of your Lordships’ House in offering our congratulations to His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, and to support wholeheartedly the humble Address and the Motion standing in the name of the noble Lord the Leader of the House.