House of Lords: Regional Representativeness

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I entirely agree with the noble Lord about the importance of the representation —if that is the right word—of people with a background in local government, such as my noble friend the Leader of the House, who has had a distinguished career in local government. Indeed, one thing I have tried to do in this House, across parties, is to promote the importance of local government, because there are many local services that matter so much to people right across the country.

[Baroness D'Souza (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, has more or less asked my question, so I am just going to add a little codicil, which is that we should think of including those people who have been elected from the education trade unions and vocational, scientific and other bodies to make for a more representative democracy.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

We have to come back to the point that the recommendations made to the sovereign on appointments are made by the Prime Minister of the day. That has been conventional right across the party divide. Clearly, the Prime Minister of the day will take into account the talents, diversity and skills of many different people.

House of Lords (Peerage Nominations) Bill [HL]

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 18th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D’Souza (CB)]

My Lords, as we have heard, incremental changes fare far better than radical reform. Those who believe that the Lords is still mired in the 19th century, if not earlier, now acknowledge evidence of modernisation. We have retirement clauses, standards and monitoring of those standards, and topical Select Committees. On the whole, Peers believe themselves to be working Peers in a 21st-century legislative Chamber, not members of a club. We have the independent Appointments Commission which, in an advisory role, assesses the suitability of prospective Peers and vets the Cross-Benchers.

These incremental changes need protection. They are not set in stone and can be bent to an existing, or future, prevailing political will. The Bill aims to extend and entrench in law the role and function of HOLAC. It simply asks that HOLAC, which does an unenviable job well and with scarce resources, has the right to decree that candidates who come before it must meet the criteria of conspicuous merit and a willingness to work on scrutiny and revision of legislation, and show evidence of probity, more narrowly defined than at present. Decisions would be binding on the Prime Minister of the day.

Undoubtedly, if enacted, the Bill would encroach on the existing unfettered power of the Prime Minister. However, that would in fact occur only very rarely. The commission has let it be known that it is in only a small handful of cases that there has been any question of suitability. However, these few cases are important because they—perhaps disproportionately—provoke much adverse media comment and thus affect the public perception of the House of Lords. A Prime Minister who appoints dubious characters or rides roughshod over HOLAC advice dishonours the House of Lords. A legislative chamber subject to ridicule by the media is easier to dismiss whether by the public or the Government. At present, the Prime Minister can control and undermine the House of Lords simultaneously.

Over the last 20 years and more, the culture within and without Parliament has changed, which argues in favour of a review of the HOLAC terms of reference and working practices. The original vetting criteria are narrow and do not take into account factors such as qualifications, suitability or availability. A review could include redefinition of what constitutes a “working Peer”, as well as a formula for addressing the number and balance of Members of the political and Cross-Bench groupings, possibly based on the proportion of votes cast in a general election.

Were HOLAC to become a statutory body, details of its members, methods of recruitment and working practices would be transparently set out in statute, allowing it to carry out its duties with confidence. The current chair of the commission, my noble friend Lord Bew, pointed out in his evidence to the Commons Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee that even if statutory status were to be achieved, it would not immediately enable HOLAC to transform the world into a “beautiful, pristine place”, but he conceded that this should not hinder incremental steps to strengthen it. I believe the majority of this House is in favour of this step, as is the wider public according to the most recent and reputable survey, carried out by the Constitution Unit. I support the Bill.

House of Lords Appointments Commission

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Thursday 21st July 2022 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness D'Souza]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of recent press comments, what plans they have to alter the role or composition of the House of Lords Appointments Commission.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord True) (Con)]

None, my Lords.

[Baroness D’Souza (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the minister for his Answer.

The Burns report, commissioned by the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, was warmly received in this House and by the Government of that time. Its recommendations included a limit to the number of Peers appointed to the House of Lords and changes to the authority of the House of Lords Appointments Commission. Will the Government now undertake to be guided by these recommendations, or are they to be abandoned?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I have answered on a number of occasions in relation to the Burns committee. On the specific question of whether the Government have plans to alter the role or composition of HOLAC, I repeat: we have none.

Standards of Behaviour and Honesty in Political Life

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Thursday 23rd June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D’Souza (CB)]

My Lords, our thanks go to the noble Lord, Lord Morse, for his prescience in addressing this issue.

Democracy is the best protection we have for liberty, but as we know, democracy is not a given state but a process. In order for it to fulfil its task of upholding the rule of law and implementing mechanisms for collective self-government, it requires the institutions of democracy to be in good working order; these include a freely elected Parliament strong enough to hold the Executive to account, an independent judiciary, freedom of expression and of the media, trade unions and a host of other traditional means of tolerating dissent and maintaining order. In turn, democratic institutions also require trust—in the institutions themselves and in the people who run them.

It is also a truism that ultimately all democracies fail. John Adams wrote in 1814:

“There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide”,


and that that failure comes from within. Although Adams was referring mainly to democracies of the ancient world, his view that people simply lost interest in democratic government in favour of authoritarian leaders who promised safety at home and triumphs abroad in return for their acceptance of autocracy is interesting in our present context.

The point I wish to emphasise is that, unless we are vigilant, democracy can fade away silently, by incremental evasions of uncomfortable freedoms and truths. Democracy is not exactly abolished but redefined to become a set of values rather than a method of government. This is where standards of behaviour come to the fore. A freely elected Government have responsibility for what is in the public interest and the public good, not simply for what is in the immediate interest of the relevant political party. Yet in the last few years we have countless examples of government actions and statements that confuse, contradict and often mislead the public in order to accrue power and reduce public and parliamentary accountability. For example, despite recent criticisms of the two cases brought by Gina Miller, far from being undemocratic, they succeeded in returning to Parliament the right to be consulted on major issues of the day.

A 2019 Hansard Society survey concluded that 54% of people in the UK believed there to be a need for a strong leader and less attention to parliamentary debate and votes. But this was in the context of “getting Brexit done”, and today might show a widespread concern about the undermining of our democratic processes while holding a kind of defeatist view that nothing can be done. There is a great deal that can be done and, in particular, that can be done by your Lordships’ House. We must turn our democratic values to confront those currently in power.

Recent actions that question the public trust in government are many. On the one hand, there is the seemingly blithe acceptance by the Government that they can freely override obligations under international treaties, and at the other end government spokesmen happily broadcasting entirely incorrect information, as did the Attorney-General this week in asserting that the so-called Northern Ireland protocol was causing Northern Ireland to lag behind—the truth being that, apart from London, Northern Ireland is the best-performing region in the UK. Or there was the Prime Minister announcing that a new and friendly relationship with Europe had been achieved at the same time as the EU began legal action against the UK. Of course, there were also the embarrassing 24-hour U-turns on categorical decisions made during the pandemic; the overriding of due process in awarding contracts to personal contacts; and the proclamations of excellence of the test and trace system, proved to be an abject failure by the evidence. Let us remember that once executive orders of these kinds are used, it is that much easier to repeat and extend them in the future.

More egregious still is the Executive’s increasing tendency to introduce Christmas tree Bills adding significant new policy clauses on Report in this House, as was the case during the passage of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act, or the much-discussed use of secondary legislation, so eloquently condemned by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, in a previous debate. These actions do not foster trust, and nor do the actions of senior Ministers and their advisers in flouting emergency regulations.

Your Lordships’ House comes under severe scrutiny for its efforts to amend some of this legislation—more often than not, unsuccessfully. That said, the Lords succeeded in passing 129 amendments in the last parliamentary Session. This is impressive, and yet if trust in the Government to be acting in the best interests of people is waning, the chances are that people will simply opt out.

Research indicates that trust, once lost, is very difficult to regain. Trust is essential for a Government’s ability to govern effectively, and this vital component is undermined by the perception of a lack of competence, corruption—however minor—misleading information and reluctance to be fully accountable. The absence of wider deliberation and scrutiny and the concentration of decision-making in the hands of a small elite encourages loyalty at the expense of wisdom, flattery at the expense of objective advice, and self-interest at the expense of the public good.

So, in answer to the question implicit in this debate, a reduction in standards and honesty has a profound, lasting and utterly destructive impact on the democratic process and it is the duty of Parliament, including this House, to do everything in its power to reverse it.

Elections Bill

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 1 & Committee stage
Thursday 10th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

I appreciate that I am surrounded by Labour noble Lords who object to what I am saying. One of the great advantages of votes for women was that occasionally we get to say the odd thing that does not go with the grain.

I am raising the problem that the Electoral Commission is not necessarily all good. I want to say this about it. There was a great deal of dissatisfaction about the Electoral Commission’s lack of independence in its response to the 2016 referendum, which I referred to in my Second Reading speech. Such were the concerns about the bias of the Electoral Commission in that period that it had to apologise for the bias of many of its members. This is not me saying it—I am quoting the Electoral Commission, which we are all told we have to listen to.

The bias led to many voters feeling that the Electoral Commission was not fit for purpose and was in fact biased against their wishes as an electorate in that referendum. Many of those people were not Tory cronies but Labour voters—Labour voters who may no longer be Labour voters because they became disillusioned by the fact that the Labour Party told them they had got it wrong, they were duped and they needed to think again. While the Labour Benches are very keen on democracy, they were less keen on the democratic decisions of many of their voters in 2016 and subsequently.

At the very least, therefore, it is important that we look at the role of the Electoral Commission critically and seriously. I do not think the way the Government have gone about reforming it will clarify or help things. I will make those points another time. But to say, as has just been said by a number of noble Lords, that we have a responsibility to take the Bill and thwart it, scupper it, throw it out and all the rest of it, seems to me rather to fly in the face of democracy. A little humility is maybe needed to remember that the plans for the Elections Bill were in the Conservative Party manifesto—which noble Lords will be delighted to know I did not vote for, before they all start.

Nevertheless, I clocked that they were there. We in this House are unelected legislators and need to take at least a smidgen of note of what the electorate might consider priorities. Not everything is a Conservative Party plot but one reason many people voted for the Conservative Party in 2019 was that they felt abandoned by the opposition parties.

[Baroness D’Souza (CB)]

My Lords, I wonder whether noble Lords are fully aware that this is Committee and not Second Reading.

[Lord Beith (LD)]

My Lords, I want to make a Committee point, if I may. Even though I agree with the general statements that have been made about the deep undesirability of Clauses 14 and 15, and the danger they represent to the reputation of this country as a guardian of democracy, my noble friend made quite clear that we would want to see those clauses removed but also indicated his support for the noble Baroness’s amendments, which would ameliorate those clauses slightly if the Bill were to retain them. I am very keen that the Bill does not retain them.

The amelioration has its limits and, in that context, I want to remind the Committee of the report of the Constitution Committee on the Bill in this respect. Paragraph 39 says:

“We are concerned about the desirability of introducing a Government-initiated strategy and policy statement for the Electoral Commission. The proposal will open up to risk the independence of the Commission … it would be dangerous if the perception were to emerge that the Commission is beholden to the Government for its operation and delivery.”


The weakness of the noble Baroness’s amendment, which I know is well intentioned, is that the statutory status of the statement remains and she creates a rather interesting situation, which I had not seen in legislative form before, in which the commission can carry out what the Government suggest if it already agrees with them, which would be a new kind of statutory position. The fact is that there would still be a statement that had some degree of statutory authority behind it.

Governments and governing parties can always criticise what the Electoral Commission says and does and have shown little hesitation about doing so over the years. There has never been a limit on the ability of the Conservative Party to say what it disagrees with in the Electoral Commission’s work. But to create a statutory process, even with the consultation involved, and produce from that a statement which explicitly or implicitly appears to bind the Electoral Commission is highly dangerous. I see that statement as addressing priorities of the commission. Is the commission spending too much time on political finance and donations? Is it spending too much time trying to register groups of people in this country? Should it spend more time trying to find more overseas voters? Such issues are not things on which we want to see the Electoral Commission steered by a statement that has any authority from statute. Let parties both in government and outside it continue to express their views and, indeed, their criticisms, but do not build into our statutory system that kind of statement.

Legislation: Skeleton Bills and Delegated Powers

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Thursday 6th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D'Souza (CB)]

My Lords, the following blunt phrases crop up repeatedly in the authoritative committee reports Democracy Denied? and Government by Diktat:

“a critical moment has been reached … signing a legislative blank cheque … should be used only in the most exceptional circumstances … striking and disturbing recent developments … egregious erosion of democratic accountability … wide and ill-defined delegated powers … The New Despotism … disguised legislative instruments”.

These phrases, and those such as

“most draconian powers ever seen in peacetime”,

indicate disquiet at the increasing use of skeleton Bills where the meat, both policy and technical, is supplied by means of secondary legislation, including Henry VIII powers, statutory instruments, tertiary legislation and guidance.

The recent upsurge in concern about the relationship between the Government and the Executive is by no means a new phenomenon. Parliamentarians were voicing similar concerns in the Donoughmore committee in 1932, the Jellicoe committee in 1992 and ever since in various articles, debates and lectures, notably the lecture on Henry VIII powers given by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, at King’s College in 2014.

Clearly, there is a place for delegated legislation, but the democratic problem arises when Governments seek to push policies into secondary legislation, thereby depriving them of proper, sustained debate and amendment. This happened during the passage of the Brexit Bill and with the emergency Covid legislation. In recent years the Government have thus exercised an authority over lawmaking that goes well beyond the filling in of technical and administrative gaps, and strays into issues of policy and principle.

It has become a habit, and one which we in this House are reluctant to confront; we all remember to our cost the Strathclyde report of 2015, following the vote on the tax rebates secondary legislation. This, as noble Lords will recall, was an executive order and was challenged because of a very recent report indicating that acceptance of the policy as set out in the order would immediately catapult several hundred thousand families into dire poverty. Following a Motion to Regret, on which noble Lords overwhelmingly voted “content”, subsequent discussion at government level revolved around how to ensure that the wishes of the elected House were not thwarted. However, as we all know, the real issue was, and is, the relationship between the Government and the Executive.

Parliamentary scrutiny is a good thing; it is in fact the raison d’être of this House. What must never be minimised is the democratic process that enables the operation of parliamentary sovereignty on a daily basis and not just at elections. Again, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, has said:

“At the heart of the development of our constitutional arrangements, Parliament is there to protect us from authoritarianism, from despotism, from an over mighty monarch, but also from an over mighty executive.”


The two reports in question offer some solutions to this disturbing trend. Perhaps the most radical are those that seek to reset the balance of power. These might be initiated by Ministers taking on the responsibility of making reasoned decisions on whether or not a Bill should include delegated legislation and publishing these reasons in advance. The guiding principle here would be that such legislation is drafted only in the most exceptional circumstances and where the use of delegated legislation can be fully justified.

Finally, I suggest that the oxymoron of “mandatory guidance” should be immediately removed from the parliamentary lexicon.

The time has come to address this trend, and the Minister is earnestly entreated to take these reports very seriously and act upon them because, as the noble Baroness, Lady Cavendish, made absolutely clear, it matters.

House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) (Abolition of By-Elections) Bill [HL]

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 3rd December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D'Souza (CB)]

My Lords, this House, including many of our greatly valued hereditary Peers, has endorsed this Bill in its many incarnations. The House of Commons is in agreement and public opinion, whenever it is solicited, is also in favour of a change to the hereditary by-elections and the principles underlying them. It is mystifying that the Government are apparently implacably opposed. The main argument is that piecemeal reform is not to be contemplated but, as has been said too many times to be ignored, piecemeal—or, to give it a more dignified name, incremental—reform is how this House has developed over the last few centuries, and in the words of the noble lord, Lord Grocott, the nation has, on the whole, remained calm.

This is a simple Bill, entirely in step with current concerns about equality, and it could be slipped into the legislative programme without too much disquiet or disruption, barring vexatious lack of self-restraint in tabling amendments. If this fails, as I suspect it might, what are the options? I have been looking carefully at the definitions of self-regulation in this House. It is a much-treasured convention and extends to proceedings and the pre-eminence of Peers themselves in decision-making. The Standing Orders regulate these freedoms to some extent but do not preclude the Lords insisting on certain conventions and, importantly, procedures.

In recent weeks, the House has objected to the process of introducing electronic voting and is at present engaged in debating the role of the Lord Speaker. One wonders whether self -regulation could be extended to enable Peers to have a say on recruitment to this House by means of hereditary by-elections. For example, could noble Lords decide not to be involved in these by-elections but instead refer the candidates to the independent Appointments Commission? Could this House be sufficiently concerned about the continuation of an outdated practice to act together and impose its will? This would not necessarily mean abseiling from the public gallery, but rather a dignified and well thought-through petition to the usual channels for adequate time to complete this Bill.

These might be seen as radical options, but as the momentum builds, the Government may accept that a compromise solution would be preferable.

House of Lords: Appointments Process

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Thursday 18th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D'Souza (CB)]

My Lords, the Government cannot be unaware of the public disquiet about the current mechanisms for appointments to this House and their impact on its reputation. The power of patronage and the freedom to swell the Government Benches in this House is, of course, tightly guarded, but it has to be balanced against the undermining of what authority this House has as an improver of legislation.

Many MPs acknowledge that the Lords can be relied on to scrutinise contentious aspects of legislation. A large majority in the Commons matched by a majority in the Lords is not a basis for effective scrutiny. Scrutiny requires those appointed to be so on the basis of public service, expertise, experience and commitment to attendance and the work of Parliament, and not of financial support for a particular political party. At the very least, it is our responsibility to keep the public informed of our purpose, which is to preserve this House as a proper and at times resolute opposition to legislation that might adversely affect the least advantaged in our society and/or weaken any of the institutions of democracy, including the media, the judiciary and civil society and its freedom to protest. This is our work and our duty.

Finally, I consider the House of Lords—despite its non-elected Members—to be a key instrument of the democratic process because it constantly asks the Government to think again and to reconsider the effects of their decisions. This is best done on the basis of knowledge, willingness to delve into the detail of draft legislation and the merits of the case, often debated at length. Significant donations should not be a criterion for working in this House.

Standards in Public Life

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Thursday 9th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D’Souza (CB)]

My Lords, in the UK, where governance relies heavily on conventions, there is always the danger that these conventions are ignored or significantly tailored to fit the current zeitgeist, in Parliament and beyond. Parliament has recognised this by creating a whole raft of behavioural standards and rules. In bringing up this topic, the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, indicates that there should be better monitoring of all those involved in governance, and surely that must be right. However, there is the wider question of how to foster trust, especially if trust has been eroded. Governments must inspire trust to govern effectively and, ultimately, trust is based on the citizen’s perceptions of the Government’s competence and intent. This in turn requires overt values, transparency, data access and giving citizens a voice. Conversely, non-compliance with the rules, such as last-minute U-turns on decisions immediately following categorical statements, has confused and irritated the public, and the failure to call Dominic Cummings to account following his flouting of the Covid-19 travel restrictions meant that others felt that they too could disobey rules with impunity.

How is trust best achieved? It is by means of clear rules for legislators, uniform adherence to those rules and rapid effective sanctions for transgressions. How does the UK measure up to these criteria? Not too badly, as it happens, but many areas are in need of tightening up to prevent and sanction transgressions and, most importantly, the perception of abuses. The British Academy review on the longer-term social impacts of Covid came up with nine areas, one of which was continued

“Low and unstable levels of trust”,


particularly at local or national government level. This is not a desirable culture and will likely lead to further structural inequalities—for example, them and us attitudes—and even greater tensions between safety and security and personal freedoms and privacy.

The emphasis has to be on reviewing the current rules and ensuring their implementation, the aim being to build a culture of open government. In recent years, lobbying, cronyism, the sometime arbitrary invoking of the Ministerial Code, public procurement, overreaching executive powers and misinformation, among other weaknesses, have provoked adverse press attention and much more public distrust than there would otherwise have been. In 2020 alone, some 30 alleged breaches of parliamentary and ministerial rule were reported.

If we accept that trust forms the basis for policy-making in governance, the following actions seem urgent: more detailed definition of and adherence to integrity principles; political leaders leading by example; common standards at all levels; perceptions of fairness and improvement in public services; and the sound use of public money. As ever, these principles in action come best—and must come—from the top. It is absolutely in the interests of government to do so.

House of Lords Reform

Baroness D'Souza Excerpts

Wednesday 30th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D’Souza (CB) [V]]

My Lords, reducing the size of the House is clearly the most urgent issue. That said, would the Minister agree that there has been a fall-off in the courtesies normally observed by the House, including in participants’ failure to attend the greater part of debates, the conventions of respect towards the Lord Speaker and Deputy Speakers and forgetfulness about registering relevant interests? Furthermore, does he agree that these issues contribute to the public’s negative view of the work of this House?

[Lord True (Con)]

I would not agree with those generalised comments. I believe that all of us should be mindful of our manner of behaviour and our manner in referring to and engaging with each other. I do not believe that making comments in general terms about the weakness of this House necessarily improves its reputation. One of the most remarkable things about this House is that last night 467 of your Lordships were following and voting in a debate on the Republic of Cameroon, rather than watching the England and Germany match. Nothing can be wrong with a House with such a deep attachment to its public duty.