Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill

Baroness Doocey Excerpts

Wednesday 4th December 2013 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Doocey]

56QZE: Before Clause 121, insert the following new Clause—
“IPCC: requirement to carry out investigations
In section 10 of the Police Reform Act 2002 (general functions of the Commission) after subsection (2) there is inserted—“(2A) In carrying out its functions in subsection (1)(a) with regard to investigations under subsection (2)(c), the Commission shall ensure that the majority of investigations are conducted by the staff of the Commission.””

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, in moving this amendment, I shall speak also to Amendments 56QZF and 56QZG. The object of these amendments is to strengthen the independence and transparency of the IPCC. They would do so by increasing the proportion of independent investigations carried out by the IPCC, reducing the proportion of IPCC investigators who are former police officers and requiring the IPCC to report annually to Parliament.

Amendment 56QZE would require that, in the case of serious complaints, the IPCC would carry out the majority of investigations itself. To maintain the culture of policing by consent, there must always be an effective response to valid complaints and the public rightly expect independence and transparency in the investigation of such complaints. But last year, just one in 17 of the serious cases referred to the IPCC resulted in an independent investigation. I am sure that that is not what Parliament intended when the IPCC was set up, nor will this approach maintain public trust and confidence.

The House of Commons Home Affairs Committee considered the work of the IPCC on two occasions, most recently in January this year. Its report highlighted concerns about the independence of the IPCC’s investigations and the impact on its work of a high caseload and restricted resources. The IPCC has itself accepted that it must take on more independent investigations, and the Government have assisted it to do so by providing additional funding. Can the Minister indicate how much additional money it is to receive? The amendment seeks to ensure that, in future, the majority of serious complaints are independently investigated by the IPCC.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hamwee]

Before my noble friend responds, perhaps I may add to the list of things that she might want to mention. As I understand it—I would be interested to know whether I read this correctly—my noble friend seeks a spread of experience. Points can be made about the date and the percentage, but what is important, apart from independence and the perception of independence, is that good practice—there is a lot of it among the police, but it is not confined to the police—could be spread to the non-police investigators and, conversely, that experience from elsewhere might be shared with those who have that professional background.

The last time that I took even the slightest issue with the noble Lord, Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington, somebody said to me, “Watch it, they’ll all have your car registration number”. However, I drive so slowly as perhaps to be a problem in that way.

We are trying to get to a good mix. Nobody exclusively has the right experience or the right way to approach these matters.

[Baroness Doocey]

My Lords, I thank the Minister—my noble friend the listening Minister—for his positive response. I confirm that I was referring to serious cases —he was right about that—not the cases that should rightly be dealt with at a lower level. I apologise to the House if I did not make that entirely clear.

I am delighted that the Minister has confirmed that, in future, all serious cases will be investigated independently by the IPCC. That is very important. Everyone who has made comments agrees that it is important that the IPCC is not just independent but seen by the public to be to be independent. We can all agree on that.

However, I am concerned about the issue of a date. To me, the words “direction of travel” mean, “Kick it into the long grass”. It would be sad if that happened. I understand the experience of noble Lords who have spoken, and it may well be that the date that I chose is too soon, but there must be a date as a cut-off point. If there is not, it could go on and on; that would be very wrong. We must deal with this issue of the perception of the police investigating the police. That will continue as long as the vast majority of investigators are former or seconded police officers.

Having said that, I have no desire for the IPCC to lose very good officers who are doing a very good job and who have experience. The issue is not to throw the baby out with the bath water. There is time for us to modify my proposal, which the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, has agreed that we should do. With that in mind, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 56QZE withdrawn.