Armed Forces: Redundancies

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Touhig for tabling this debate. He has followed and pressed this issue assiduously and he is to be congratulated on that. It is not a closed book as far as he, and indeed a number of us, are concerned. I listened with shock to the two quotations he repeated from the memo from the Ministry of Defence, which I have not seen. However, equally shocking was a response given by the Minister on 22 July, a response that I would not normally associate with him, given his commitment to our Armed Forces. He said that no consideration was given to the proximity of the immediate pension point, as referred to by my noble friend Lord Touhig.

I worked in industrial relations for many years, and apart from Robert Maxwell, who I regarded as a crook—I certainly would not put the MoD in the same tent, I would hope—I never came across a situation of compulsory redundancy, as opposed to voluntary redundancy, where there was a complete disregard for the impact on the individual. That has not been taken into account and pragmatically applied. What makes it worse is that we are not talking about an individual employee in a company who can stay in their own home and who have not been prepared to give their life for their country. Armed Forces personnel generally do not own their homes and commit their lives to military service. What has been done by the MoD to a small number of people in this case has not been done in my name as a citizen of this country. It is not something that I can condone in any way.

It has been criticised by members of the coalition in both Houses and by the commission that reviewed the military covenant—a covenant that this House put into law not too long ago. Last December the commission, in looking at how the covenant was being applied, asked the Government to review their approach to compulsory redundancies and how they were treating the personnel who were affected. The words “a feeling of betrayal” were used by members of the Armed Forces, who also asked for a review. However, the Government chose to ignore that request.

Who speaks for Armed Forces personnel? They cannot join a trade union or federation that has any authority to negotiate for them. Although we have the Armed Forces Pay Review Body, it is not its position to deal with situations like this. It therefore has to come down to the Ministry of Defence and the Government. The Government have a responsibility in this. I want to ask the Minister: are the Government prepared to review their position? We have heard that more redundancies may be declared in January of next year. Will the Government’s position be the same as it was on this redundancy round? We are told that the new reserves need to be up to number by 2018 because it is a five-year policy, yet the redundancies will be completed by 2015. I accept that people have to be recruited into the Armed Forces even at a time when redundancies are being made because you want to be sure that you have people in place for the officer cadre at the appropriate time. In my view, you would not go about making a big change such as this in any business in Britain. First, you would not get away with it and, more importantly, you would want to make sure that you could deliver on your operational requirements, whether for a company making products or for the Armed Forces. This has not been staged in a way that you would expect: “We will make so many redundancies, then let’s get up to the requirement we need, and then take it to the next stage”.

The whole exercise will leave a very bad taste among members of the Armed Forces. It will affect recruitment and it will certainly affect morale. Last year, for the first time that I can remember, the Armed Forces Pay Review Body referred to the issue of low morale as a result of the questions that had been put to its members when it went out to meet personnel. I have the utmost respect for the Minister, but I ask him this: will the Government please review their position? It is not something that any of us who are concerned about this issue either feel contented about or are prepared to leave where it is.

Defence: Procurement

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2013 Grand Committee

Asked by

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are their policies towards and priorities for defence procurement.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, this Question for Short Debate covers a huge area and we are not going to be able to cover it all in one hour, so maybe we need to come back to this issue at a future date. My work for today has been substantially assisted by the helpful report by the House of Commons Defence Select Committee dated 5 February.

Defence procurement has dogged Governments from all sides of the House for many years because of delay, cost overruns and changing capability. Taken together, all of these have often had an impact on the capability of our Armed Forces. Despite many reports from the House of Commons Select Committee, the National Audit Office and others, the problem appears to be intractable and one that Governments somehow cannot get to grips with. In 1997 the incoming new Labour Government were faced with cost overruns and delay on the Eurofighter, Merlin and Tornado programmes, to name a few. So the statement after the 2010 election about the budget deficit being so big and it being down to the previous Government entirely is not quite the full picture; it is an issue that has faced many Governments, including this one. As the Select Committee report says in paragraph 15, “The decision in 2010”— after the coalition Government were elected—

“to change to the carrier variant of the Joint Strike Fighter was … rushed and based upon incomplete and inaccurate policy development. It … led to increased costs to the carrier strike programme and a delay in the in-service date of the carrier”,

as well as,

“the early decommissioning of the Harrier”.

The decommissioning of the Harrier has, of course, attracted an awful lot of attention and, certainly, critical comment from many people who know a lot more about this issue than I do. There has been regret in the services about the early demise of the Harrier jump jet.

However, Ministers in the MoD have been extremely active. We have a report from Bernard Gray, commissioned in 2009 by the previous Government, and the Levene report, to name just two major pieces of work, as well as the National Security Through Technology White Paper. Through those, together with the Defence Committee report, I have been able to gather together information for our debate today. It is impossible to cover all the issues, as I said, but I would like to cover the transition of security and the UK-based skills requirement that it brings with it; the defence procurement structure itself; research; and the defence budget.

On transition, we are witnessing a Government who have moved from a defined list of sovereign capabilities, which we had under the previous defence industrial strategy, to the current approach in the defence and security White Paper—it appears to be reflected in government documents—for off-the-shelf acquisition where that is possible, with a less defined list of sovereign capabilities. That leads me to my first question for the Minister. What are the Government’s plans to ensure that the need for skills and for an affordable programme is met? In industry, transitional periods are always more expensive than a flat state. New skills will be required for this different type of procurement. What are the Government’s plans on that?

For instance, there is a need to ensure that decisions are made about the long-term sustainability of the complex warship build programme and the transition from the Type 45 to the Type 26 programme, which will require key skills, some of which are not there today. That brings with it questions of related affordability and how that impacts on the MoD budget. Decisions are also required on the capability of Typhoon, particularly if we want to maximise our potential for export markets in that area. Another area is the topic of unmanned systems. We are good at this in Britain—we have extremely good skills—but what is government policy in this area?

Those are merely three areas of capability, but all are resource-demanding. What priorities have the Government set across the general board of procurement? Decisions such as these have a profound impact on the defence industry and on provision, so that industry can plan and have the confidence to invest in its workforce rather than making people redundant, providing the right skills to make sure that we can manufacture defence here in the UK. It is an issue to which the Defence Committee report refers as important in its last recommendation, number 198, about the skills base.

The structure of defence procurement is a wide area. The Bernard Gray report talks about changing it. There were two possible models of procurement: an executive non-departmental public body or a government-owned contractor-operated organisation, commonly called a GOCO. At a conference in March 2011, the author of the report, Bernard Gray, said that it,

“seems extremely unlikely this idea, GOCO, will be pursued given the lack of support it received”.

Yet the Government appear to have stopped all work on any other model and are concentrating on GOCO. I thank the Minister for the briefing that we had on that at the MoD. I now ask him where government thinking is on this. What hurdles do the Government anticipate, and how do they intend to overcome them when we are talking about our international allies? How will our allies react to that change to a government-owned but contractor-operated system? Defence procurement is an expensive business, and getting more expensive. It is highly unlikely that any one nation will be able to fund its own defence in future. In fact that is already not the case today; we have to work in concert with our allies.

We have a good research base in the UK. It has worked well for SMEs, academia, the MoD itself and the defence industry. Paragraph 114 of the Select Committee report asks the Government to target 2% of the MoD budget to be spent here in the UK on UK-based research and development. What is the Government’s response to that? Do the Government agree that we should be aiming for that target?

In the Statement on 14 May 2012, the Secretary of State announced that the budget had been brought into financial balance. He also announced that, for planning purposes, it had been agreed with the Treasury that a 1% per annum real increase in the equipment and support budget would apply from 2015. Can the Minister confirm that this additional 1% in real terms for the defence budget will be new money, not money that the MoD has to find from its overall budget? Obviously, a large part of the rest of the budget is personnel spend. Will that increase apply from 2015? In conclusion on the defence budget, it seems odd logic that, whereas all our non-allies—China, North Korea and other countries—are increasing their defence spend, we in the western world are reducing ours, and doing so to an extremely concerning point.

I said that I could not cover all the points in this short debate; I hope that we can return to this topic. It would be helpful if the Minister could answer those questions. On the key issue of GOCO, will the Minister confirm that no final decisions have been taken? I look forward to his reply, and to hearing what the small number of colleagues taking part in the debate have to say.

Armed Forces: Army Basing Plan

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, that is a difficult question for me to answer. Of course, if the Household Cavalry Mounted Regiment was ordered to leave, it would have to go. However, as the Statement made clear, a lot of research needs to be done before it can move out. Suitable barracks would need to be found within the centre of London for it to move to, with all the costing worked out. It would be very complicated, but we would be irresponsible not to look into it.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

I thank the Minister for the Statement, particularly for covering the continual running sore—as the Armed Forces Pay Review Body report this year confirms yet again—of accommodation. Is he confident that the new and refurbished housing will be ready for our troops and their families when they come home, knowing that this will have to go through the public procurement process—I presume—and knowing about the delay after delay that such processes in the MoD seem to attract? What processes have been set up to consult with the services families organisations? Accommodation is a problem but there is also the linked problem of an influx of young families requiring more school places, to go on lists for local doctors and dentists, and hospital accommodation, which was not mentioned in the Statement. What processes are in place to deal with that and to ensure that when these families come back, those facilities are there for them? Finally, how does this impact on the covenant, which we have all welcomed and which is important in the life of servicepeople?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, we are of course well aware of the covenant and do everything we possibly can to stick by it. When I was in opposition, I went with the noble Baroness to visit quite a lot of accommodation. In the last two years we have done a lot of work on accommodation, as did the previous Government at the end, and it is hugely different now to three years ago. The level of Army accommodation is catching up with the Navy’s and the Air Force’s and, on the whole, is really good. I am very much looking forward to going down to Salisbury Plain, I hope next month, to see what has been done there recently and what the plans are. We are in discussion with Wiltshire Council about the very issues that the noble Baroness raises—hospitals, schools and all the others. These are issues that we have to deal with, but all the local authorities and the devolved Governments that we have been in touch with very much welcome the Army moving into their area.

Future Reserves 2020

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Thursday 8th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, national insurance is one of the issues mentioned in the Green Paper. We are looking at it. I understand that there are a number of complications, but it is an issue that we are looking at.

I hope the noble Lord did not misunderstand me when I said that we were changing. I did not mean in any way that things were not going well. We very much value the input of the National Employer Advisory Board.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement from the other House. Unusually, I think there is general consensus across the House that this is a welcome move. But, probably, the devil is in the detail. It will succeed or not depending on co-operation from industry.

Those of us who have seen the reserves in operation know that it is not the quality of their contribution. Indeed, in modern warfare, technologically, they are probably more advanced than many of the people whom they are working alongside. This could well be a very good move for our services. But can the Minister assure me that the MoD will be flexible in its discussions with employers, especially when it comes to small firms releasing someone? You may need to help fund a substitute, not the actual person leaving to go on operations. You may need to provide that support.

The pensions issue, which is mentioned on page 56, will probably be a difficult one to overcome. The assurance I am seeking concerns the rules and regulations we have laid down now for engaging with the private sector. They may need to be changed to ensure that you succeed in recruiting the numbers that you seek.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, we realise that this will not work unless we have the co-operation of employers. We are keen to get as much input as we can from them. If we have to change the legislation and make other changes to make it work, we will do that, and of course we will be very flexible.

Armed Forces

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Monday 5th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, it is indeed an honour to follow the noble Lord, Lord King, in this debate. Unsatisfactory though the circumstances have been that created the space for the debate, I must thank the noble Lord, Lord Astor, for securing this topic. I am sure that there must have been some competing issues but to have secured this very important topic for a debate, which is not timed, enables those who are able to do so to contribute and is very welcome. I welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, to this debate too. I remember well that when the noble Baroness joined the House, defence was one of the issues that she first picked up. I look forward to working with her in the future and wish her much success.

We are in a week when the country and the nation come together to pay honour and respect and, somehow, to pay the due debt that we have to those who have fallen in the wars that our Armed Forces have taken part in. That is very much manifest in the poppy that we all, rightly, wear. It is a way of recognising the enormous price that so many of our citizens have paid. Within the various ceremonies taking place this year there are still many hundreds of war widows who, throughout the rest of their lives, have paid the price for their loved ones having fallen in defence of this country. They are joined now by young widows—widows of an age that we all hoped, as in the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord King, that we would not be faced with. However, we are because of the unsafe world that we live in. Perhaps I should declare an interest: I am vice-president of the War Widows Association and very proud of the work that the association has done. They have not forgotten the debt that their loved ones are owed by the nation over the years.

We are reminded regularly in this House of the price that our Armed Forces continue to pay in defence of the realm and in carrying out the responsibilities that we give them. At home in the south-west last Friday night, we had on television the service from a tiny church in a small village in Cornwall where people came together to pay respects to Corporal David O’Connor, a young man from 40 Commando who had had three tours of duty in Afghanistan. He was 27, having been killed at the peak of his young life. We were also reminded of the increasing contribution of women to our Armed Forces because when he met his death, alongside him was Corporal Channing Day of 3rd Medical Regiment. She was out there to help and support our service personnel. As we know, our medical people do not just serve those personnel; any civilians who need their help get it. She was aged 25. It is a hell of a price that those young people are paying, day in and day out, in the service of this country.

The nation respects our Armed Forces. That is brought home continually now, not just by the remembrance services that we have but in the other interaction that the Armed Forces have. It is good that they are able to return to their home towns as a regiment in their uniforms. I welcome that. It is good that they come into Parliament in their uniforms and are welcome and respected; we can pay our thanks to them. As the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, mentioned, we also turn to them for help when civil services fail, whether that is because of foot and mouth disease, a firefighters’ strike or indeed the Olympics. I am sure that I am not alone in saying that there was an almost tangible sigh of relief nationally when we were told that the Armed Forces were going to work on security. They were not the backstop; they were the security of first choice for many people in this country, and what a proud job they did for us.

They know when they sign up that they are not going to make a fortune; they know when they take that choice that the ultimate prize could be paid. They know the ultimate sacrifice that they are going to make, but in exchange for that they are given to understand that they have security, stability, welfare support and a cohesive force—whether their regiment, their ship or, in the RAF, their group—that works together. The Armed Forces do not work as individuals but as groups. That is a topic that I shall return to later on in my contribution.

The Armed Forces also expect that when they are on operations, their families will be treated properly. It is the issue of families that I would particularly like to cover today. They also expect that, if they pay the ultimate price, their employer—the nation—will do good by their dependants who are left behind.

The service covenant, which we have had a number of debates on in this House, is a good policy commitment and has good intentions, but we are very short of delivering. I welcome very much the words that I believe were sincerely given by the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Astor, today, about plans in the coming months. Our Armed Forces are pretty straightforward in their view, and I can hear them now saying in my ear, as they used to when I chaired the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body, “We’ve heard it all before. Come on, start delivering in the areas where you haven’t delivered”. And there is quite a list of those areas.

I have spoken to some personnel in preparation for this debate. The big issue now for them, and this is referred to in this year’s Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body report, is the uncertainty and the insecurity that they feel about the future—where are they going to live and what is the housing going to be like? Nearly 40% of complaints to the forces’ family federations are about housing—the quality of it, the lack of choice and where people are going to be. This issue has been ongoing for a number of years and does not lie just with the present Government, but it will be exacerbated by the fact that we have personnel returning from Germany.

I gather that we now have a situation where, although people may be in one group in one of the three services, they are not all going to be able to live in the same area. I heard of one case of three commanding officers of the same group living in entirely different areas. In such cases you lack cohesion but, more importantly for the families, it is then very difficult to give welfare support when the serving personnel are off on operations. It is difficult, for instance, to bring military wives together to enjoy life and give each other moral support while their spouses are away serving their country. Probably for the first time, this year the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body referred to low morale in some areas, which it is very concerned about. I hope that it will be following up on that in its report next year.

A two-year pay freeze does not help in any situation. When you are putting a lad or a girl on a plane to go and fight for their country in Afghanistan and possibly pay the ultimate price, as quite a number of them have done, it does not particularly help for them to be told, “By the way, we really recognise what you’re doing but you’re not going to get any pay increase for the next two years”. Our Armed Forces should be treated differently from the rest of us in this country. Why? Because we have the covenant which says that the country will look after them. They do not have the option of just walking away, as so many other people would if they found it difficult.

A small number of the redundancies which have already been referred to were very badly handled. The problem is that that poor handling radiates out through huge numbers in the Armed Forces. The 16-year rule on pensions is that if you have been there 16 years and leave, at a certain age you can then get some of your pension. To be made redundant a few weeks before 16 years and therefore not getting it is pretty cack-handed. I do not believe that it was done deliberately—well, I hope it was not—but we must be careful of it.

On housing, in the previous Budget £100 million was announced for the upgrading of housing: £100 million in, £140 million—I gather—taken out for the upgrading of housing for 2013-15. It does not make sense. They can see through this. None of it helps the cohesion that we are looking for. A family which has been overseas in the Armed Forces cannot get a credit rating when they come back. They cannot get a mortgage. They cannot go and buy a car on hire purchase like the rest of us. They cannot buy big items, because they do not have a credit rating. The banks should be called in to help in that situation. It is not that they have been off somewhere doing nothing at all. They have been working for their country, and we should address that.

Along with the changes in their pension scheme that I mentioned, all this creates uncertainty. I very much welcome what the Minister said in his opening speech, that we will have some policy announcements over the coming months. However, they must have timelines with them. It is not good enough just to say, “This is our policy”. The policies have to be delivered. They cannot give with one hand and take with the other. When the Minister replies, please can she respond to the points about morale, which is an issue?

The austerity measures in the country do not give the Government an opt-out on the responsibility that they carry for all of us to our Armed Forces. They are a special case. No Government can ask us in a debate here to take note of their contribution and then walk away from that responsibility. One or two quotes have been given around the period of remembrance we are in at the moment. One that always strikes home to me is, “Lest we forget”. We forget at our general peril if we do not face up to our responsibility to our Armed Forces and their families.

Armed Forces: Discrimination

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Wednesday 27th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

Does the Minister agree that discrimination can take many forms? With the repositioning of Armed Forces personnel from Germany over the coming years, one area of concern may well be about the opportunity for their children to have access to the schools that their parents want them to go to and to get on the doctor’s list in the area that they wish. Does he agree that we may need to review the covenant, which is an extremely good initiative, to ensure that the families of Armed Forces personnel are not indirectly discriminated against?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Baroness makes a very good point about children’s education and doctors. This is an area that we are looking at very closely.

Armed Forces: Personnel

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Monday 23rd April 2012 Grand Committee

Asked by

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to resolve the issues of operational tempo, pay, pensions and housing affecting Armed Forces personnel reported in the latest Armed Forces Pay Review Body report; and how they ensure that such steps are compatible with the Armed Forces covenant.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, the opening words of the current military covenant say that,

“the whole nation has a moral obligation”,

to all those,

“who serve or have served in the Armed Forces…and their families”.

and that they deserve our

“respect and support, and fair treatment”.

That is the basis of my Question for Short Debate this evening. I ask myself whether the Government are fulfilling their obligation on the military covenant. It is an undertaking that goes back many centuries, indeed to the first great Queen Elizabeth—Elizabeth I—when an Act was passed which compelled parishes to contribute to the care of veterans. This nation has a very long history of seeking to give good support not just to our service men and women but to their families as well, both during and after their time in the services. The Armed Forces do not have the channels to speak out for themselves. They are not permitted to join a trades union, although if you look at the blogs and the chatter on the wires, you would see that many in the Armed Forces are now agitating that they should have a trades union. I make no comment on that.

They do not have the same right to speak freely in the public arena about their position as we do. However, in January this year, Catherine Spencer, speaking on behalf of the Army Families Federation, suggested that Ministers were close to breaching the military covenant. She said:

“I have to ask if the future has ever seemed more demoralising”.

I have always believed that you should look on the upside of things and not just the negatives. I have had a pretty awful weekend doing the research for this speech because I have become increasingly concerned about the state of our Armed Forces—I am talking about the personnel side, not the equipment, obviously. I recognise the need for austerity measures but my interpretation of the wording of the 2012 AFPRB report is that it expresses deep and serious concerns on the range of those austerity measures and how they are being applied to the Armed Forces.

I declare an interest as a former chairman of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body for six years. I am currently a vice-president of the War Widows’ Association and a trustee of the Armed Forces Pension Scheme. I have been in contact with none of them for this debate; I am not speaking to any external briefing. This is based on my experience.

It is a long time since I read a report from the Armed Forces Pay Review Body which has been so direct in talking about decreasing morale in the Armed Forces. The report states that the operational tempo remains “very high”. We know that, but that is almost a blanket for a number of problem areas: people not being with their families for as long as they should, going off on operations, coming back, going on training, not having the time that we have, in the military covenant, tried to ensure for them. Indeed, chapter 2.8 states:

“The 2011 Armed Forces Continuous Attitude Survey … indicated decreasing satisfaction … and declining morale”,

in the services.

Written and oral evidence from the services family federations highlighted uncertainty from those people about, for instance, the future of the pension scheme and the related transitional arrangements; changes to the Ministry of Defence allowances package; the impact on family life of the operational tempo; and the recurring theme of poor-quality accommodation and maintenance. These are ongoing issues that have been raised not just with the present Government but with the previous Government.

Those concerns are coupled with a pay freeze for 75 per cent of Armed Forces personnel for the past two years and a pay award for the remaining 25 per cent of just £250. In my view, the decision now to extend the pay restraint for a further two years, with no exclusions and a limit of 1 per cent, is having a cumulative and potentially damaging impact on the morale of our Armed Forces personnel and their families. We should be worried about that and we should try to address the issue.

A staunch pillar of the covenant going back generations has been the provision of housing, particularly in the Army. The Navy has a high proportion of its personnel who buy their own homes. To be in a community of forces families in similar situations—young families, often with Dad, or now sometimes Mum, absent for a lot of the time on operations—provides great mutual support. In the recent, successful television programme, “The Choir”, we saw how being there supported those young women. Just 45 per cent of Army personnel are buying or renting their own homes—two-thirds as many as the rest of us in the population. So the reasons for the drop in morale are obvious.

If this situation is to change, more help is needed. The home is at the heart of the family. It is somewhere we all retreat to when we have issues. The £8,500 from the current Long Service Advance of Pay Scheme to assist in buying a home is, in my view, insufficient; it was insufficient some years ago. I am not even sure whether it is still being applied, but the conditions for it are pretty onerous. It will not bring about the change that the Government—particularly the Minister—want. The Armed Forces Home Ownership Scheme is a good and very welcome initiative, but it hardly touches the problem. Just 93 personnel benefited from April 2010 to July 2011, so it needs a lot more resourcing. I accept that in a period of austerity that is very difficult; nevertheless, it needs more resource. With the number of personnel returning from Germany, what are their hopes for decent housing either within or without the services?

I read the review body report over the weekend, and from personal experience I know how much care goes into writing this report. The authors do not want to be negative when they write the report or cause problems by overspinning it, but the report brought home to me just how serious the concerns must be. Normally the authors would put it across very calmly and without exaggeration—and I believe there is no exaggeration in this report. So I was alarmed at the overall message in sections of it. One reference on its own would not be too concerning, but reference after reference to morale must lead to concern.

The review body deals with serving personnel, not veterans; the military covenant covers those serving and those who have served, and rightly so. The plight of some veterans is concerning and has been raised in this House over a number of years. It is not getting much better. Last year the Veterans Aid charity provided 19,700 nights of accommodation for former Armed Forces personnel. A disproportionate number of people who live on the streets come from the Armed Forces; we know that from debates that we have had in the House. The link with the poverty that those people live in must be of concern to us all.

The House has a reputation for taking a keen interest in Armed Forces personnel issues. I think that we all recognise the work and dedication that the noble Lord, Lord Astor, has applied to this. Nevertheless, there are still areas of criticism. I will bring together the list of issues of concern that contribute to a lack of morale. There has been pay restraint for two years for 75 per cent of personnel, yet they see in the Budget that people with plenty of money will get tax cuts next year. Job security is disappearing and career prospects have been cut, against a background of high operational tempo and the negative impact on family life.

Sometimes when I raise issues, for example on pensions, I am told that things cannot be changed because the consequences will bounce back on the public sector. I do not accept that as a rational argument. People in the public sector do not go off and give their lives. More than 400 of our men and women have lost their lives in Afghanistan up to March this year. It cannot be said that this is the same kind of job as working in an office or in a local authority. We need to look at this.

I am not asking for special treatment. I hope that on this occasion the Minister will not trot out the usual mantra that it is all the previous Government’s fault. I am asking that we honour the military covenant. It is our moral obligation. We are in serious danger of not meeting that obligation. Perhaps in his reply the Minister will kindly consider committing to remedy what people in the Armed Forces have lost. They face four years of pay restraint—a pay cut in anyone’s language—and a lack of job security and career prospects. We need a renewal of our commitment to the Armed Forces, and we need to carry out that renewal.

Armed Forces Bill

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Monday 10th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, I, too, support this amendment. Although I did not take part in the debate last week, I listened very carefully to it. Arrangements had been made so that we did not vote last week; I expect that we will today on this amendment.

Following the Bill closely, I feel somewhat incredulous that the Government have not conceded in this area. This proposal is very much diluted from where we originally started. About three years ago I was privileged to sit in on a consultation, conducted by the Ministry of Defence, with the bereaved families of members of the Armed Forces. It was somewhat humbling to sit there and listen to them talk very constructively about how things could be changed. It would not help them, since they had already been in that situation, but it would help bereaved families of service men and women in the future and ease their lives with regard to delays in inquests. I gather that there is still a backlog of inquests.

I regard this as quite a simple amendment. It is about our duty of care to our service men and women. The covenant covers active service personnel and veterans, but what about service people who lose their lives and pay the ultimate price? What about the families they have left behind? This is a very small, light amendment. It does not call for huge expenditure. In my view, it meets what the whole ethos and spirit of the covenant to our Armed Forces personnel is really all about.

A number of colleagues have thanked the Minister for the changes in the Bill, which will leave the House very different from how it arrived. I give much of the credit for that to the Minister, to the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, and to the civil servants who have worked hard on this; I am not sure that these changes would have been achieved in another place. I ask why, on this last small request, which is really about the duty of care, the Government will not concede.

The amendment would not cost money and it certainly would not cost a lot of time. It would help the families and it would prevent us going back to the situation that we were in three years ago. It looks likely that multiple deaths will still be dealt with in Wiltshire, but inquests on single deaths in the Armed Forces look like going to a coroner who has probably never dealt with one before, which cannot be right. I give this amendment my wholehearted support, and hope that, if not through the Government conceding, then through a vote, we can get this into the Bill.

[Lord Rosser]

My Lords, the amendment would provide that the annual Armed Forces covenant would cover the operation of inquests as well as the subjects of healthcare, housing and education.

I do not wish to repeat the arguments already advanced in support of the amendment about why it is essential that there should be a specific reference in the Bill to the report covering the operation of inquests. Suffice to say that the decision not to proceed with the creation of the office of the chief coroner has strengthened the case. One of the roles of the chief coroner accepted on all sides of the House was the monitoring of investigations into service deaths and ensuring that coroners are trained to conduct investigations into military deaths. The chief coroner would also have had the responsibility to transfer inquests into military deaths to coroners in different jurisdictions to ensure that an inquest would be held by a coroner trained in military matters. The position now, as I understand it, is that investigations into single fatalities will still be transferred to the coroner closest to the next of kin. Inconsistency in quality of service and in quality of investigations for military families will therefore remain.

The amendment would not reverse or amend the Government’s decision in respect of the office of the chief coroner, but it would ensure that the issue of the operation of inquests—which, as has been said, remains a matter of considerable concern—is one that the Secretary of State has to report on each year in the Armed Forces covenant report, and thus is guaranteed to be the subject of continuing parliamentary and public scrutiny, challenge and debate.

In his responses in Grand Committee and on Report, the Minister—I think that he will accept this—has accepted that the operation of inquests is a subject that would be required to be covered by the Secretary of State in the Armed Forces covenant report at present but, his view is, not necessarily in future. The Minister argues that we currently have forces deployed overseas in military action—obviously, for example, in Afghanistan—which, sadly, continues to result in fatalities and consequential inquests, but that, hopefully, this will not be a permanent situation and thus there is no need, as there is with healthcare, housing and education, to have the operation of inquests included in the Bill as a required subject matter to be covered in the annual report.

I am sure that we all share his hope that the situation regarding fatalities will be transformed, but under current policy the current operations in Afghanistan will be continuing for just over another three years, and inquests are not always resolved and finalised quickly, as has been pointed out. Further, the anticipated position could well not materialise and we just do not know when or where our Armed Forces might be deployed overseas in the future. It is also the case that not all fatalities on active service occur overseas, as has been said, and there are fatalities in this country, including, in some years, some high-profile ones. It seems unrealistic to claim that, even though a highly sensitive issue such as the operation of inquests is one that the Secretary of State would almost certainly be expected to address for the next few years in an Armed Forces covenant report, such is our apparent certainty over what is going to happen in the highly uncertain and volatile arena of world affairs in the medium and longer term that we should decide now that it is not necessary to include any reference to the operation of inquests, along with healthcare, housing, and education in the Bill.

We have an Armed Forces Bill every five years—it is the one piece of guaranteed legislation that emanates from the Ministry of Defence, which is a department that generates very little new legislation. As a result, legislative changes and amendments that are required tend to be left until the next Armed Forces Bill. It may well be that experience of the processes and procedures provided for in this Bill for the annual Armed Forces covenant report will lead to some amendments being put forward by the then Government in the next Bill in just the same way as other parts of this, or previous Armed Forces Bills, may necessitate revision or amendment. There is nothing wrong with that, and there is likewise nothing wrong with the reference to the operation of inquests being included in this Bill as a subject matter that will be addressed in the annual Armed Forces covenant report, when we know it is an important and sensitive issue, because in what many might feel is the less than likely event of its ceasing to be an issue of importance and concern, it can be removed from the Bill by an amendment to a future Armed Forces Bill.

If the noble Baroness does not feel able to accept the Minister’s reply, and is minded to seek the opinion of the House, we will be supporting the amendment.

Armed Forces Bill

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendments 6, 8 and 22, the latter of which stands in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Rosser. The Committee will be relieved to hear that I intend to speak briefly as it seems to me that the burden is very much on the Government to explain their position on these matters and give appropriate assurance.

The noble Lord, Lord Judd, has raised some extremely serious issues on Amendments 6 and 8. I look forward to the Minister’s response to those issues. We will consider his response and judge whether to support those amendments on Report. However, I put down a marker to the Government that we will be looking to hear a very good response, otherwise we will probably support the amendments on Report.

I would like to make clear that the Opposition are not against people under 18 serving in the Armed Forces. We think it can be good for those young people and for the Armed Forces. However, as the noble Lord, Lord Judd, has just so eloquently set out, there must be the right safeguards. There are obvious safeguards to do with combat and other issues that we believe are in place—and of course we will be constantly seeking assurances that they are in place—but we think Amendments 6 and 8, as a basis for reporting, and our Amendment 22, tie the whole thing together.

We have been assured privately that there are mechanisms in place whereby all young people under the age of 18 are able to leave the Armed Forces at any point up to their 18th birthday if they wish to. That is an absolutely key safeguard but it is a safeguard with which we are uncomfortable. The noble Lord, Lord Judd, has hit the nail on the head: there is no process for informed consent. There is no clear process of audit. We believe that the proper way forward is an affirmative, signed statement by that young person that they wish to continue their service in the Armed Forces, and we will be pressing this point on Report unless we can be convinced by the Minister between now and then that such a clause is not required in the Bill.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, I would like to speak to these amendments but this also gives me the opportunity of giving my sincere apologies to the Committee for not attending Second Reading. It was for family reasons and I did notify the Minister.

The accountability of any employer, including the Armed Forces, to young people is essential. In the Armed Forces I think it is even more essential. I do not know if the noble Lord, Lord Judd, has been to Harrogate. I have been on a number of occasions and I was extremely encouraged by the work being done there with young people. For the first time in their lives, for many of them, someone was taking an interest in them, investing time and money in them. In fact, if they left the services at 18 they would have been in a far better position to get employment than they would have been if they had been left in the streets where they were—and many of them told me that. When I met them, many of them told me that they would go on leave at weekends and they were quite often glad to get back because they realised what a cul-de-sac their life had been before they joined the Armed Forces.

There is a responsibility and I welcome this discussion, but I would not like to see attached to that any kind of assertion that the Armed Forces have been irresponsible with young people—because they have not. Indeed, I would also refer to A-levels. Many of these kids, boys and girls, go into the services because they have no chance of getting any further education; it is not within their sights. Their parents do not encourage them, the community they live in does not encourage them, and if you said, “You’re coming in here and you’re going to go away with A-levels”, they would run a mile; they would not join up. It is very important that we handle this sensitively. We have an accountability and maybe including a reference to it in the covenant report is the way to deal with it. I would certainly welcome that, and would welcome not tying youngsters in so they feel they cannot get out if they find it is not for them.

However, it would be wrong in Committee for it not to go on the record that the training that the young people get in Harrogate is good and gives them confidence in life they would not have got elsewhere. One of the bugbears I remember having as chair of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body some years ago was that the services did very good training but they did not keep a record of it; they did not have accreditation that could be used outside in employment. That has changed considerably—a lot of progress has been made—but if we could make sure that the investment that goes into the youngsters and what they give back was recorded and was available, it would help broaden their lives but would also recognise more fully the good work that the Armed Forces do with young people.

War Widows’ Association of Great Britain

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Wednesday 8th June 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, for bringing this important issue forward for debate today, the 40th anniversary of the founding of the War Widows’ Association. I declare an interest as the vice-president of the War Widows’ Association, about which I feel extremely privileged and humble.

Debates are the bread and butter of what we are about in this House. Having been a Member for just under 20 years, I could never feel as privileged as I do today to be standing up and taking part in this debate. This morning, we had a very moving service at the Guards Chapel. It brought home to everyone there what amazing women are part of the War Widows’ Association and how they have stuck together like glue. The saying “when the going gets tough, the tough get going” really applies to those ladies and, as the chaplain said, they know how to enjoy themselves as well. One of their great assets is that they have never portrayed themselves as victims—the majority were widowed during the Second World War—but they include among their ranks many younger widows because of recent operations. They portray themselves and act as proud individuals—proud of their spouses and what they did for their nation, and indeed for their paying the ultimate price. They are prepared to stand up and be counted and do what they can do to help each other. They have done that for many years, which is an enormous credit to them.

The widows have many ways of expressing that support for one another. This morning was one of them; the annual remembrance activities in London are another. They also have their annual get-together. I have been privileged to go to one or two—it is not just a day but several days. They all meet up, look after each other and catch up on news, too—that is very important. And then on the Saturday evening, when the hair comes down, the frocks go on and the band starts up, you really start to ask, “Are they really that old?”. There is also the arboretum. The previous Government strongly supported the role of the War Widows’ Association, and I am delighted to say that the current Government are building on that. We are privileged to have with us today the noble Lord, Lord Astor—without sparing his blushes. Along with his fellow Minister in the MoD who is responsible for veterans’ issues, he is very committed to supporting what the war widows are doing.

The magazine Courage—a great title; it has been going for years—provides another way for them to keep in touch with each other. I was reading earlier today a newsletter dating back to 1987. It talked about how you could win a Marks & Spencer’s voucher for the ladies. Last year, the association was able to give one to each of its members.

The War Widows’ Association is also a democratic organisation, having office and committee elections. It does that because it wants to try to make sure that it makes progress on behalf of the people whom it represents. That includes lobbying Parliament. This House has always given good support to the work that the War Widows’ Association has done. We all remember Baroness Strange, who was a wonderful advocate of the association. In fact, it was through her that I got involved with speaking in the Chamber on issues affecting war widows. She was ably followed by the current president, the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, who was at the service this morning and who is present everywhere whenever there is an event. She gives marvellous representation for, and support to, this amazing organisation.

However, the work goes on and there is still a lot to achieve. The noble Viscount, Lord Younger of Leckie, mentioned the covenant. The legislation will be coming to the House of Lords in the coming months and I can assure the Minister—he would be disappointed if I did not—that we will be on our feet talking about issues affecting the war widows and making sure that they get their fair share of both representation and adjustments in the covenant where needed.

There is one area—the noble Viscount touched on it—that I would ask the Minister to address, if he can. It is a difficult area because of the legislation. The Data Protection Act is a barrier to reaching the newly widowed wives and husbands of serving personnel. We have to find a way around that because the law is being an ass in this case and bureaucracy is preventing us from giving the comfort and support that those women and men may well need.

As has been mentioned, the organisation started in 1971 and came out of the case of a war widow, Laura Connelly, who came back from Australia. At the service this morning the association prayer was sung—I do not intend to sing it, your Lordships will be relieved to know. It was written by a war widow, Mrs Kay Todd, and even today, 40 years later, it encompasses what the organisation is all about. It goes like this:

“We will recall

Our yearly tribute placing

The hopes and dreams that slowly had to fade

We will go on

The lonely future facing

Knowing too well the sacrifice you made.

We will forget

The loneliness and worry

The pain of parting and the tears we shed

Forget as well

The aching and the longing

Keeping our memories of the times we shared.

We will remember

Head held high with pride

We will keep vigil

With our men who died”.

The war widows have kept faith with that commitment.