US National Security Strategy
Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Wallace of Saltaire
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington)
My Lords, the Government’s ambition is to spend 3% of GDP on defence and 5% on security by 2035. On China, our position is clear and has been consistent, unlike that of the previous Government, where we will compete, co-operate and challenge as appropriate. The US Administration, to my knowledge, have not expressed an opinion on a planning application.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, I declare an interest as someone who lived in the United States for four years and has spent a lot of time since then working on US-UK and transatlantic relations. The Government should not underestimate the seriousness of what is behind this. We have three more years of a Trump presidency. In terms of the ideas behind it, can I recommend to the Minister the piece that the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Belgravia, wrote for Policy Exchange the other week, defending Churchill against those on the MAGA right in the United States who now see Churchill as a warmonger who should have made peace with Hitler in 1940 and who dragged the United States into an unnecessary European war? In view of the isolationist, back-to-the-1930s, “America first” moves going on within the American right, with the echoes of white supremacism and Christian nationalism of the southern states, do the Government not need to be a great deal braver to start the national conversation that the SDR called for about the new circumstances for national security, in which we are to move earlier with an increase in defence spending than it has so far said, and to be much more positive about closer links with our European neighbours and the European Union, both in security and economics?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My view on Churchill is very straightforward: we are immensely grateful, proud and in awe of the way he led this country through an incredibly difficult period in our history. Obviously, there are complexities and people have views, and there are many people far better placed to give an opinion on Churchill’s legacy than me, but that is my view and I think it is consistent with the view of the Government.
The noble Lord urges us to be closer to our European allies and partners. He is right to do that, and we have reset our relationship with the European Union, I think quite successfully. It has its own positions, and we are rebuilding what was quite a fractured relationship. It is now much more constructive, and we are working together on some very difficult issues, not least the defence of Ukraine. But I do not see it as a question of having to choose between the US and the EU. It is important—indeed, it is our responsibility and our global duty, actually—to step up, as the UK is, and act as a bridge between the EU and the United States and to make sure that we maintain the very best of relationships with both.
British Embassy in Damascus
Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Wallace of Saltaire
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
That is a very important point. We were deeply concerned, as I know Members were across this House, about some of the events we saw last summer, particularly the targeting of the Alawite and Druze communities, as the noble Lord says. We are very clear with the Government in Syria about our commitment to freedom of religion or belief, and that we expect the new Government to be inclusive and representative and to take actions we would all expect them to take when we see breaches and when things occur that need to be responded to. The Government need to take a leading role in making sure that this sort of violence and victimisation is not allowed to persist in Syria.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, the Minister mentioned the millions of Syrians who are refugees in other countries, and we know that a significant number of them have attempted to get to this country by one means or another. Given His Majesty’s Government’s current policy on immigrants, legal and irregular, does that not give them a real incentive to invest in making Syria not only a more stable country but one with greater respect for human rights—particularly rights for women—and social stability?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am very proud of the role this country played in hosting many Syrians at a time of desperate need during the Assad regime. Many Syrians came here, set up businesses and made lives for themselves. It is true that many wish to return now because they want to be part of the rebuilding of their country, and they are proud of what they hope will be its future. That is not the sole reason; there are many reasons why we want to play our part in supporting security, stability and prosperity for Syria, which is why we lifted sanctions very early on after the fall of Assad. But, as the noble Lord says, it is good if people who wish to return home are able to do so safely and in a way that enables them to rebuild their lives properly.
Chagos Islands
Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(8 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The thing with the new Governments is that they like to look at things afresh, and it is absolutely right that they are able to do that. The noble Lord will be reassured to know that we have managed to iron out the differences that there were, and the Government of Mauritius, the UK Government and now the US Government, it would seem, are content to proceed.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, is there any overall consistency about who pays rent for the use of overseas bases? I understand that the American Government pay the Japanese Government for the use of Okinawa, which is a substantial base. As far as I am aware, the United States does not pay the British Government for its bases in Britain, or for its use of Ascension Island and listening posts in Cyprus. They are covered simply by exchanges of letters—which, I understand, have since been lost. Why is it that in Diego Garcia, where, as I understand it, there are fewer than 20 British personnel and a much larger number of American personnel, we are paying the rent to the Mauritians, not the Americans?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
Reducing this to who pays rent to whom does not really reflect the nature of the benefit to each country. We have a very close relationship with the United States. We could not be closer in terms of defence, security and intelligence. That is the benefit that we want to gain from this arrangement. It is about keeping people safe. Discussions around rent may be interesting in this Chamber, but I am concerned that we achieve a stable, secure base that we are able to benefit from for our national security in the years to come.
Ukraine
Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(9 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I hear what my noble friend is saying, and things are undoubtedly moving quickly, but I do not think that starting the defence review again would be the right way to move forward with this. The noble Lord, Lord Robertson, will be very well aware of what has happened and the consequences, and I have every confidence that that will be reflected very well in his report when we get it.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, can I ask about expertise within the Government on Europe and the Russian sphere, so to speak? I well remember that there used to be a very good Soviet cadre, and an extremely good European cadre, within the Foreign Office. Both were run down under the past Government, but it is very clear that what we are now dealing with has implications not just for Ukraine but for Georgia, Moldova, Belarus and Kazakhstan. We need to know and speak to people in those countries about the implications of what we are doing for the broader region, and we clearly need to have a great deal more expertise and links with large and small European countries. I remember going to Slovakia some years ago and discovering that there were only two UK-based people in our Bratislava embassy. I suggest that one of the things we now need to look at is beefing up our contacts at all levels with that sort of Government.
British Council
Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(10 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
At the moment, the Government provide around 16% of the British Council's funding. The rest, to the British Council’s enduring credit, it manages to raise itself through its own activities—mostly English language tuition and other activities that it conducts. The balance of that we are discussing with the British Council. However, it is a strength that the council has that degree of independence from government, and I would not wish to see that jeopardised. Whether or not we can increase the government grant and to what extent is open to discussion, but I point out gently that, if we did decide to do that, the money would have to come from somewhere else.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, we welcome today the vice-chair of the British Council as a new Labour Peer. We on these Benches look forward to robust defence of the British Council from the Government Benches. This is a Covid loan. The loss that the British Council made was due to Covid and the drying-up of English language teaching. There are many other Covid loans outstanding. Many of them were fraudulent, as we know; this clearly was not. The Government will struggle to recover some of those others. This was clearly an honest loan made in honest circumstances. Can we not treat this in that context, while the Government perhaps work harder on recovering other Covid loans which are a great deal less honest?
Belarus: Elections
Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(10 months, 1 week ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I think it is an excellent scheme. I understand that the Foreign Secretary and other members of the Government have done this. I would be very happy to take part in this scheme and encourage any others here who wish to do so to take it up as well. I thank the noble Lord for raising this.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that what happens in Belarus depends, more than anything else, on the outcome of the war in Ukraine? In the support we give Ukraine, we must all bear in mind that the future of Belarus is also at stake. Do the Government assess that it is possible to maintain contact with groups and organisations within Belarus to encourage the further development of civil society; or have we, in the Government’s opinion, reached a point when we can work only with democratic groups and movements outside Belarus under the current circumstances?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
That is an interesting question. One of the reasons that we maintain an embassy in Minsk is to send a signal to the people of Belarus that they have not been abandoned by us, that we are there and that we will advocate on their behalf. It is difficult to work in the way that we want, of course, but we will continue to do what we can.
Moldova: Russian Interference
Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(10 months, 1 week ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
That support will continue, and my noble friend will be very pleased to learn that the Foreign Secretary was there just a few months ago. My honourable friend, Minister Stephen Doughty, was there in October as well. This support will continue. We are, as we have said many times, steadfast in our support for Ukraine. It would be no good being steadfast in support for Ukraine while not being very active and doing everything we can to support Moldova, because these issues are not independent of one another.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, the Intelligence and Security Committee published a report some years ago on Russian interference in British politics. It was heavily redacted, even though it stated there had been extensive Russian interference. Would it not be appropriate to publish some of those redacted parts to inform the British public of how the Russian threat affects us, and that it is still continuing?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The noble Lord raises a very interesting question, the answer to which I do not have for him today, but I will take it away because he makes a very strong case.
Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe
Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(1 year ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am sure that the leader of our delegation, the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, was listening closely to what the noble Baroness said. To remind noble Lords, the Council of Europe came out of the Second World War. The founding of the institution was led by Churchill and Bevin. We are very proud to be members of it, and the priority that it places on the rule of law and securing human rights is something that we can justifiably be proud of.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, I understand that the first meeting of the EU-UK body to happen since the election is pencilled in for mid-January. Will there come a point between now and then when, if the Government have not heard from the Conservatives as to who their members will be, they will at least announce who the other nominated members will be, so that we can at least get started?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am conscious that this is a Question about the Council of Europe, but I can see the connection, and noble Lords are right to use this opportunity to raise these kinds of questions. I genuinely hope that we do not have to get to that position and that we can get the complete delegation identified and the names shared with both the House and Europe as soon as possible.
International Anti-Corruption Court
Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(1 year, 3 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I take my noble friend’s point; I have heard him say such things in this Chamber on many occasions in the past. We need as many tools in our toolbox as we can assemble. However, unless we get the building blocks in place—in terms of international agreements and agreed principles and other nations’ domestic processes—then a court will be less likely to be successful than if we are to get those building blocks in place first.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, in the fight against corruption, transparency of ownership and of financial transactions is clearly important. We have seen a number of things in recent years about Crown dependencies and overseas territories agreeing to make transactions and ownership within their jurisdiction more transparent. The actual agreement, however, has not led to enforcement. Will the Government take action to ensure the voluntary agreement which overseas territories are asked to make is actually made and enforced?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The noble Lord is right to raise this; it is a work in progress. We are in close engagement with overseas territories on the sharing of information and on registration of ownership. We have done a lot of work in the UK relatively recently on this, which I know the noble Lord will be aware of, but he will appreciate that this is the subject of ongoing discussions and engagement with overseas territories.