Livestock Grazing on Dartmoor National Park

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Lord Katz

Thursday 18th June 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Katz (Lab)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right, as I would expect from his long experience and interest in these matters, about the importance of tackling that invasive species, Molinia, and the role that both ponies and cattle have in tackling it. That is why Natural England is looking at the best way to get appropriate grazing in the appropriate parts of Dartmoor. To go to his wider point, though, we recognise the important role of countryside stewardship that commons graziers, farmers and indeed people who live in the countryside take. That is why Defra is bringing together partners from across Whitehall and beyond, through its Defra-led Rural Taskforce, to make sure that all its policies are rural-proofed from the get-go, rather than there being a patch-and-mend approach to policies after the event.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I live in Devon, partly, and I have owned Dartmoor ponies, although I do not, unfortunately, live on Dartmoor. Is not one of problems that Natural England wants to reduce the grazing on Dartmoor, and the farmers understandably want to protect their cattle and sheep, rather than protecting the ponies that do not give them any money or very little?

[Lord Katz (Lab)]

As I said in response to previous questions, the point is getting the appropriate mix of grazing by the appropriate animals in the right spot.

I did not properly address the point of the noble Lord, Lord Roborough, around ELMS. The ELM offer for moorlands is made up of a number of different actions for different livestock stocking rates with supplements for grazing with ponies, cattle and native breeds. We recognise that in some areas, an increase in the proportion of cattle and ponies may well be required to secure the outcomes needed, rather than a decrease.

Crime and Policing Bill

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Lord Katz

Committee stage
Monday 2nd February 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Katz) (Lab)]

Order—that was an intervention.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I have not quite finished.

I understand exactly what the noble Baroness is saying. I was not a criminal judge; I do not think I ever sent a woman to prison, so I am not qualified to speak on those issues. All I am really asking the Committee to reflect on is that we are principally being asked to change the law to support those who are not guilty of offences, and because the police are not behaving as they should.

Crime and Policing Bill

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Lord Katz

Committee stage
Tuesday 20th January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I thank the Minister for giving way. If the powers exist, are the police actually using them?

[Lord Katz (Lab)]

They are, but we always leave it to chief officers to direct their police forces to use the full waterfront of different powers and regulations under their purview. We can always encourage them. I am sure that a number of chief officers will be looking intently at the debates in all the days of Committee on the Crime and Policing Bill and will understand the priorities the Committee voices. Certainly, with no little thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, and others, we have had plenty of debate on this issue and they will have heard that it is one of extreme concern.

Clause 8 will allow the police to act immediately to stop offending behaviour and confiscate vehicles without delay. In addition, the Government have consulted on changes to secondary legislation to enable quicker disposal of seized vehicles, and our response will be published in due course. These measures demonstrate the Government’s commitment to effectively tackling the illegal and anti-social use of micro-mobility devices such as e-bikes and e-scooters without duplicating powers that are already in place.

I want to stress that riding a privately owned electric scooter on public roads is illegal, and the police have powers to take enforcement action against offenders, including seizure of the e-scooter for the offence of driving without insurance or a licence. The enforcement of road traffic law remains an operational matter for chief officers, who are best placed to allocate resources according to local needs, threats, risks and priorities. The Government will continue to support the police with the tools and powers they need, but this amendment would add unnecessary complexity without improving public safety. With that in mind, I ask the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.

Online Safety Act 2023: Online Hate and Racism

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Lord Katz

Wednesday 5th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Katz (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for the question and for making a very important point. This is a societal problem, and it requires societal solutions. From a government perspective, this is something that reaches across government. While the Online Safety Act is a DCMS instrument and Ofcom is responsible for enforcing it, the Government have made very clear our expectations of Ofcom in producing that enforcement regime.

At the same time, when we see more traditional forms of hate, we will not be afraid to act. That is why, for instance, in the wake of the terrible attack at the Heaton Park synagogue on Yom Kippur, the Prime Minister said that we must, as a country,

“come together and wrap our arms around”

the Jewish community. Personally, I very much welcome that. It is the spirit that we as a whole society need to act in tackling hate and providing reassurance to frightened communities. That is why we will not rest there. In the Crime and Policing Bill, which starts Committee on Monday, after Recess—I look forward to seeing noble Lords there—we will be introducing new public order measures that protect people and communities from egregious protest.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, a friend of mine in the other place resigned from being an MP because her daughter was threatened with being killed. Do the Government think they are doing enough to look after MPs?

[Lord Katz (Lab)]

The noble and learned Baroness raises a really important point. We know from the Speaker’s Conference that the security of MPs, and indeed candidates and other representatives both running for and elected to office, is a concern. Concern about that is at an all-time high. Among MPs who have experienced abusive language and insults, 93% have experienced this online. The Local Government Association’s latest survey found that 52% of councillors have had untrue or misleading information spread about them, and 64% of councillors have experienced abuse online. That is why, in the Crime and Policing Bill, public officeholders, including MPs, Peers and local councillors, will be better protected from harassment and intimidation in terms of restricting protests outside their houses.