Mental Capacity (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 5th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 20, which is in my name on the Marshalled List and has been grouped with the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay.

During the briefing we had with the Bill team and the Ministers, my notes tell me that the first clause is a key change to the new regime, and that it is concerned with the portability of deprivation of liberty. I understand that the noble Baroness’s amendment makes sure that Section 4B—on the deprivation of liberty necessary for life-sustaining treatment or vital act—and Schedule AA1 are compatible with the provisions set out in the rest of the Bill and that they do not conflict with a valid decision to refuse care or treatment. The noble Baroness raises some important and substantial issues right at the beginning of the Bill and raises issues of conflicts which will need to be resolved.

Amendment 20 in my name comes from paragraph 15 of proposed new Schedule AA1 in the Law Commission’s draft Bill, quoting it exactly. It prevents the responsible body authorising arrangements for the cared-for person to reside in, or receive care or treatment somewhere, if those arrangements conflict with a valid decision by a donee of a lasting power of attorney or of a deputy appointed by the Court of Protection. As I say, the wording is exactly the same as that in the Law Commission draft Bill.

Under deprivation of liberty, a deputy and attorney may object to any deprivation of liberty and effectively block it, pending an application to the Court of Protection. I can see no obvious reason for excluding this from the Bill. The Government claim that it is already in the main provisions under the original Act—in Section 6(6) —but this is only the case where the basis for the deprivation of liberty is in “best interests”. If the basis for DOL is risk to others, that would not necessarily be the case, and so for the avoidance of doubt it is important to include this clause. If we do not, the risk of litigation on this point is probably quite high.

Deputies and donees should be able to refuse a deprivation of liberty, so this amendment seeks to ensure that the views of those donees and deputies, who have been appointed by the cared-for person to make the decisions in their best interests—as was eloquently outlined by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay—are given appropriate weight with regard to where the cared-for person resides for care and treatment.

I am pleased to say that this amendment and what the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, said, enjoys widespread support from the organisations who have found the time, even under the pressure we have all been under, to say that they support this. They include Mencap, VoiceAbility, Mind, the National Autistic Society, Liberty, Age UK, Sense and many others. The amendment looks at the clash or overlap between the different regimes that govern this area of law. I must ask why the Government did not adopt the Law Commission formulation. The Minister should be aware that I will return to that theme throughout Committee, because the Government seem to have cherry picked the Law Commission report, and some of the most important safeguards of liberty seem to have been omitted or watered down by the Bill.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, I refer to my interests in the register. I will pick up on two points that have been raised in the amendments, particularly the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay.

At Second Reading, I too raised my concern about the status of attorneys with lasting power of attorney, particularly over wellness and health. These are some of the most personal decisions. In some ways, I am more concerned about that than about attorneys who have power over the money. Money always seems a rather black and white matter—it either is or is not a good idea. But there are many shades of grey over health and, in particular, well-being. I should like to link this with decision-making and the other point in the noble Baroness’s amendment, about the need for qualified speech and language support to interpret and make sure there is a clear understanding of what “P”’s interests really are.

When you look at certain people with certain disabilities, particularly those with communication disorders—such as autism, learning disabilities and, of course, dementia—it is not always the case that they cannot express a view. But getting to that view—unless it is a real, life-threatening medical emergency—takes quite a long time. First, particularly those with autism and a learning disability, the individual has to be comfortable and familiar with the person asking the questions, however experienced. It is no good sending a stranger in for a five-minute cup of tea and a quick chat and thinking that person will then disclose their innermost feelings. How many of us would?

The point is that getting to that view might often be about something known for many years by someone who has been appointed as an attorney with a lasting power of attorney. I believe the two things are linked in those cases. We know from the Alzheimer’s Society that such a lot can be achieved for the quality of life and well-being of people with dementia and Alzheimer’s by giving enough time, when asking a question, to allow the person to process the information before they give an answer. Brain function is very different in these people. They need time to process the question they are being asked and to process how they will communicate the answer; it can take quite a long time.

This point was picked up quickly by the Alzheimer’s Society which says, for example, on a very simple matter, that when people with Alzheimer’s in residential care homes are asked whether they would like tea or coffee and do not immediately reply, they are processing the question and that can take a long time. They might prefer coffee today, but because they had tea yesterday, the answer may be quickly assumed—“I expect you will have tea, you always have tea”—before they can even process the information and the way they will communicate the answer.

How much more complex it is, and how much more time is needed when people are being asked more complicated questions about potentially life-changing decisions. This cannot be left only to someone with speech and language experience, important as that is, and such people need to be experienced. But people with a lasting power of attorney, who might have held an LPA for many years, and who know the individual extremely well, are in a prime position to act as an interpreter when important decisions are being made.

I believe my noble friend is aware of my view on this already. Those of us who served on the original Bill and its pre-legislative scrutiny many years ago know that a lot of thought went into the existing Bill on LPAs. To have one part of a Bill give rights to an individual through their attorney but then to diminish that in another part of the Bill, through amendment, seems not only wrong but seriously, morally wrong. I hope my noble friend will address this point when he replies to this amendment.

[Baroness Murphy (CB)]

My Lords, I have added my name to Amendment 20, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, and I give my strong support to the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. I pay tribute to the good sense that the noble Baroness, Lady Browning, has just brought to our debate.

A theme that will run through our discussions and will come up again when we come to advance decision-making is that we must have more respect for those who have been trusted by an individual to make decisions on their behalf. We must encourage people to make plans and to think about the future, and we must ensure that those who make the very wise decision to appoint a lasting power of attorney are respected. As we have already heard, we do so in other parts of the Bill, and we should not remove that when we come to the question of deprivation of liberty. We must incorporate it in the general scheme of things. It seems absolutely crucial that we respect decisions made by people who have power of attorney and by the court’s appointed deputies. I strongly support the amendment.

Mental Capacity (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Baroness Browning Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 16th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to be present during this important debate to hear the maiden speech of my noble friend Lady Barran. We all wish her well in her contributions to your Lordships’ House. I refer to my interests in the register and to the fact that I am a carer and a deputy holding LPAs for vulnerable relatives.

I fully understand why my noble friend the Minister has a certain sense of urgency in bringing this legislation forward. As we have heard, there is clearly a problem that is hitting individuals and our health and care institutions, because of the backlog that is accruing. Clearly, there is a sense of urgency to try to resolve this. However, I begin by saying to my noble friend: it has to be resolved correctly this time. I say “this time” having served on the pre-legislative scrutiny committee for the Mental Capacity Bill, having worked on the Bill when it went through the Commons, having served on the post-legislative committee in your Lordships’ House, and having worked on all existing mental health legislation that we are currently reviewing.

There was a recurring theme on all those committees—there are people around the House who were with me on those committees and who know that we seem to have been doing this for ever. We were only too well aware of the Bournewood gap, which my noble friend mentioned when completing his remarks, and we still have not plugged that gap. It is essential that we plug it this time. Recommendation 21 from the post-legislative scrutiny committee of this House considered that we had inadvertently created a new Bournewood gap and that that should be closed. I have to say to my noble friend that I do not think that the Bill as drafted closes that gap. It is a good attempt, but I would like to have seen some pre-legislative scrutiny on this rather small but important Bill.

Let me share this with the House. At the weekend, I received correspondence from the professional carers of HL in the Bournewood case, which I was involved in many years ago. In respect of the Bill before us, they say it is bizarre that the Court of Protection gives authority to deputies to exercise control over P’s accommodation and care provision. As this Bill stands, it prevents them having any real power in the process. Mr E goes on to state that their acid test is this: if HL v Bournewood happened today, would he be any better protected? As a House dealing with the Bill before it goes to another place, we have to make absolutely sure that we get it right this time.

Concerns have been expressed across the House on behalf of interested parties and the charitable third sector, particularly by my friend the noble Lord, Lord Touhig—he and I both serve as vice-presidents of the National Autistic Society. This brings forward another issue. A lot of noble Lords have spoken today about vulnerable people. That is who we are trying to address in this legislation to get it right. However, vulnerable people are on a spectrum and they all have different needs—they are all vulnerable but how one approaches them and resolves decision-making challenges for them is very different. For example, dealing with somebody very old who has been very disabled by a stroke and is in permanent residential or nursing care is very different from dealing with a 20-something year-old who needs residential care and is on the autistic spectrum. In the work that I have been involved in with younger autistic adults, it is often said that if you get the right person asking the right questions in the right way, those adults understand what the problem is and what the choices are. They have capacity but they have difficulty in knowing how to come to a decision for themselves about the right way forward. There is a world of difference between a professional going through that process and exercise with somebody and dealing with somebody who, as I just explained, might be very elderly or has had a stroke.

Then there is the question of communication. Across this whole spectrum of people are people with communication disorders. How they communicate, whether they need speech and language therapists to assist them or whether they are non-verbal but can still communicate, needs to be taken into account. For that process to take place and for that assessment and decision to be made, it is absolutely essential that time is given.

I know that many Members of both Houses—I am not sure how many—have taken part in training courses run by the Alzheimer’s Society in how to communicate with somebody who has advanced Alzheimer’s. To be frank, it is not all that different from how you communicate with people who are learning disabled or on the autism spectrum. When asking a question or putting information to them, you wait for them to process that information and give them plenty of time before they then express, in whatever way is appropriate for them, an answer to that question or indicate what their preference would be. That is not a cheap option. That type of assessment is not cheap or fast.

Although I understand the urgency to bring down this backlog and treat people individually, we must understand how some of these processes require very skilled people to carry out the assessment. They should be well-trained, experienced people, ideally who know the individual, although that is not always possible. These are the challenges in getting this legislation right.

I totally concur with many issues raised today. Best interests are very important and I am concerned that that phrase is not in this legislation. As someone who holds a lasting power of attorney for health and social care, I am only too well aware that my duties in law as a private individual—not as a professional—are that I should always assess and put that person’s best interests first. If I am doing the job properly, I should notate how I went about the process. Yet we are saying in this legislation that somebody who has that legal duty in respect of another individual does not have to take that into account. They will not be consulted and will not be at the heart of the decision-making as far as P is concerned when assessments and decisions are made. There seems to be a contradiction between two different legal requirements on people in the same Act. I hope my noble friend will address that because I am now very nervous, as somebody who holds this responsibility of lasting power of attorney for another that, somehow, putting their best interests first, which I am legally required to do, will not be taken into account when another area of law is challenging the validity of that responsibility. Again, we must get this right. We cannot leave this as a gap in the process, because it is very important.

Then there are the assessments themselves and the question of training and the quality of that training for the people who carry them out. We should make sure that, even if we save money publicly on reducing the backlog and the numbers, there will be an investment in training for people who currently do not have that training. Certainly, the post-legislative scrutiny committee understood only too well from the evidence that we took a few years ago that there is a paucity of people who really understand the legislation in terms of what they are meant to do as professionals. It was very patchy then and, from what we have seen, it does not appear to be any better now. Nothing has improved all that much.

I want to raise briefly the people who have registered advance decision-making rights to refuse treatment. I am grateful to Cardiff University for its briefing, which sets out the position and explains how this issue is affected by the legislation before us. It states that the Mental Capacity Act enabled people to make ADRTs to refuse in advance specified medical treatments at a time when they may lack capacity to give or refuse consent. The Act created for the first time a mechanism for a person to specify who they would like to make those decisions, which brings us back to lasting powers of attorney. Both provisions were meant to enhance respect for personal autonomy, so it is important that, whatever is in the Bill when it leaves this House, nothing in it should reduce in any way that respect for personal autonomy. Under DoLS there was a “no refusals” test, which meant that an authorisation could not be issued if the purpose of the deprivation of liberty was to provide treatment where the person had made an ADRT refusing it, or which an appropriately empowered attorney refused to consent to on their behalf. This meant that DoLS could not be used to trump the past expression of a person’s wishes and feelings about what would happen when they had had capacity. I hope my noble friend will look again and bring some clarity to this issue. The legislation we are discussing today really is not clear on how those advance decisions will be treated, not only in terms of their relevance but whether they will be recognised as they should be now.

I finish with a quote from evidence we took in our committee on a case that was prevalent at the time and remains a test case—that of Steven Neary. His father sent a letter to the committee. It is worth bearing in mind that we are not dealing just with numbers, money and legislation, but with real people living real lives and for whom there are lasting consequences. Steven’s father, Mark Neary, really fought the fight on his son’s behalf. After he had succeeded, he wrote to say, “Two years on, I still have to deal on a daily basis with the trauma Steven experienced as a result of the DoLS legislation being turned upside down by Hillingdon. It is painful to watch. Two years on, I still have to deal with my own feelings of anger, sadness and guilt that I was not able to protect Steven from the nightmare. Living with his and my feelings—I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. That is why there is still so much to do in making sure that the Mental Capacity Act and DoLS truly protect the vulnerable people that the Act was designed for”. We must get it right this time.

Health Inequality: Autism and Learning Disabilities

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Thursday 10th May 2018 Grand Committee

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, I refer to my interests in the register, including family interests. I apologise to the noble Lord as I was a minute late. He was on his feet; he beat me to it. I apologise to the Committee.

This subject covers far more than we have time for today. This will be a quick canter. I shall refer first to the physical disabilities of people on the autistic spectrum. The Mencap report, Death by Indifference, which I feel I have been quoting in debate after debate for so many years in this House, fills me with despair. We are still talking about people on the autistic spectrum either in primary care or in hospital wards being disadvantaged, sometimes to the point of death. That in some cases is no exaggeration, purely because their autism was not understood by health professionals. In some cases, mothers have stood by hospital beds trying to explain to professionals how their adult child functions and how they are affected, yet they are still being ignored because the child is over 18—and why listen to somebody with a lifetime’s experience of that individual? People have made the point that they are individuals and they all function differently, albeit having the same diagnosis.

On mental health, this is not rocket science. The vast majority of people who grow up into adolescence and then into young adulthood, particularly, suffer mental illness on top of the autism, mainly because very simple, straightforward support services are denied them. That downward spiral of despair, when they are unable to access often very basic services, is hardly surprising. Most of us would suffer from mental health problems, if we were on the autistic spectrum, and if by the time we were 25 we had tried very hard to be part of society and the education system and to have relationships with other people but still could not get through that glass wall. Very often, it is through social services and others that these supports are forthcoming but, if they are not forthcoming, there is a serious mental health downward spiral. There is a paucity of support out there among clinicians. Very few psychiatrists, particularly in the provinces, have a working knowledge of autistic people. It can be fine in the big cities, but not so much out in the sticks. If they do not understand the condition, sometimes even the professionals do more harm than good.

I shall give a plug to the National Autistic Society. My noble friend Lord Touhig has worked very hard with the society, and there is an autism hospital passport on its website. It can be downloaded, and I know that people have used it, so that when they are admitted to hospital, the professionals have the information that they need about that individual. It is not the answer to everything, but I recommend those sorts of tools to make sure that people are given the support that is out there. There are now some apps that people can have on their phones, if they are on the autistic spectrum, which is very good.

I hope that the Autism Act, which I must finally mention, will be put into practice. If it were, things such as speedy or timely diagnosis, and some of the problems that have been mentioned today would not still be being raised by Members of the House.

NHS: Winter 2017-18

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Wednesday 18th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I agree with the noble Baroness that we need to beef up the role of pharmacies. Primary care is an area of investment within the five-year forward view. There are, I believe, nearly as many pharmacists as there ever have been, if not more, so their role is increasing all the time and that is part of our conversations for the future.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

While my noble friend is looking at the expansion of advice from pharmacies, will he look at the same time at insurance cover for pharmacists? My understanding is that, while GPs have been very keen for pharmacists to give advice, for example, to asthma sufferers and to provide the equipment that asthma sufferers need to carry with them, they have run into difficulties in getting insurance cover to provide that level of advice.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I shall certainly look into that issue. We are reviewing insurance across primary care, as my noble friend might know, and I shall look into this specific issue.

Adult Social Care Services

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

First, I congratulate the noble Lord on the work he did on the Dilnot commission in setting out the challenges we face and the kinds of solutions that we need to put the sector on a long-term footing. I merely reiterate the point that extra funding is going in, at a time when we are still addressing the £150 billion deficit that the Government inherited in 2010. That is enabling real-terms increases. Of course we need to keep going with that, because there are more older people and their care is increasingly complex.

I want to come back to the changes we are making on delayed transfers of care. Making sure that the interface between the NHS and social care is as quick, smooth and suitable for patients as possible is critical. That is why there is renewed emphasis to make sure that the money going in is addressing one of the major problems that is preventing the quality of care that we want.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend consult the CQC on a rather intimate but difficult problem? Elderly people admitted to busy trauma wards with fractures that result in them not being able to weight-bear very often find that, when they press the bell for the loo, they are not able to access a commode and there is no time for a bedpan. They end up being consigned to using adult nappies for an unnecessary long time. That has a knock-on effect on both their ability to rehabilitate and if they subsequently go into nursing or residential care. This is an outrage. Tackling this would save money and give more dignity to elderly people, but it is not something that one hears talked about very much. I have witnessed this happen with my elderly relatives and ask the Minister to take a look at it

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I am sorry to hear that my noble friend’s loved ones have experienced that. She is quite right: not only would that inhibit rehab but there is also the question of the dignity of the patient. I shall certainly look at the issue and write to her.

Queen’s Speech

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Thursday 29th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, I refer to my various interests in the register. Following on from the noble Lord, Lord Warner, I begin with mental health. As I think others in this Chamber did, I worked on pre-legislative scrutiny of the last set of changes to mental health legislation, before the Bill itself came before Parliament. Although this is a two-year Parliament, I would urge pre-legislative scrutiny, as this is such a complex and very diverse area.

There are two things at the heart of mental health services. The first is the quality and appropriateness of the services that are provided, and the second, perhaps much more important, is accessibility. At the moment, that is patchy, as has been mentioned. I think my noble friend Lady Cumberlege said this, and it is not just in maternity services but right across the piece. But there is good practice, and I hope we do not feel we have to reinvent the wheel every time we look at these subjects, but identify where good practice is, take it up and implement it as quickly as possible. That of course means resources, and accessibility is about nothing if it is not about resources. Some GP practices have community psychiatric nurses attached to them, who can identify, when a patient comes in out of the blue, that the patient needs a much longer time for diagnosis and for a plan to be put in place. No GP can do that in a few minutes. Where they have a CPN attached to the practice, and that happens, you see the results and it is very good. These are the sorts of examples we should be lifting up and encouraging throughout the country.

I hope we will look at where mental health needs are most prevalent, not least in prisons. I am not talking about people who are in secure units, but our general prison population. We have talked so many times about the need for more mental health service inputs there. It is so important before people leave prison, as is continuity when they come out. I recently visited Feltham prison, which has an exemplary practice in the way it manages people on the autistic spectrum. Autism is not a mental health condition, but I like to talk about autism as often as I can, and people will not be surprised to hear me say that people on the autistic spectrum who go without the appropriate support and package of care—both children and adults—very often spiral downwards into very serious mental health problems. The suicide rate is high. The suicide rate in this country, particularly among young men, is too high per se, and we should be looking very critically at what works and what does not. I will just say to my noble friend on the Front Bench that we produced an Autism Act in 2009, which had an autism strategy. The Government have dragged their feet somewhat in making sure that every local authority is implementing that strategy to make sure that people on the autistic spectrum have that support.

I turn now to social care. The guidance produced by the Government says that the number of people aged 75 and over is expected to increase by 70% between 2015 and 2035, so I declare a personal interest here. I am what is euphemistically described as a baby boomer—looking around the Chamber, I suspect I am not alone. Originally baby boomers were those people born either during or in the decade immediately after the Second World War. The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, referred to the way the younger generation now see our generation of baby boomers, and I must say that I am very concerned at some of the divisive language used—not by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty—to describe the difference between the younger and older generations. Back in the 1950s, if your Lordships can imagine that far back, only 10% of young people went to university. We are not talking about the 50% who go now. There is this idea that it was somehow free for 50% of the population, but it was not. The school leaving age was 15, and many people left school and went straight to work without any training, or further or higher education at all. But we made it none the less.

That age group is very important. If you were to ask people of that age today what they would like most, they would say, “To die and be cared for at home”, but the practicalities of that are very difficult. The noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, has drawn to my attention the concern, which I am sure she will raise later, about people living at home who have carers who need to sleep in, for whom the national minimum wage has become a big issue.

I am a vice-president of the Alzheimer’s Society and conclude with the problem of dementia, because deciding how we shall take this forward is quite a serious matter for the country. The Alzheimer’s Society says that dementia has,

“long been the most discriminated against condition, dismissed as ‘social’ rather than ‘medical’. Unlike many other conditions such as cancer or heart disease, where assistance will be provided free of charge through the NHS, dementia care is social care. The current system demands that anyone with even limited assets is forced to pay for their social care. This is unfair and can lead to astronomical costs for the person and their family. It should not be the case that because you develop one condition over another, you can be left bankrupted by care costs”.

I personally feel that we should all make provision for our old age and contribute towards our care costs but, as the Alzheimer’s Society says, dementia can take virtually every penny you have. I am very glad that the Government are to carry out an in-depth study into how we find some action to go with this challenge.

Social Care

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness on bringing this subject to the Floor of the House. I expect I am one of the old faces she mentioned who will be termed one of the usual suspects on this subject. I refer to my interests relating to this debate as set out in the register. Like the noble Baroness, I feel there is a touch of déjà vu about this. We know about demographic trends, the demands of an increasingly elderly population and the whole range of things which cover the gamut of the need for social care, and we have talked about them in this House for decades. Yet somehow, every time we have a debate about this, it is almost as though this is something new that has suddenly come from behind and we are rather astonished to find it is such a problem.

It is now a real problem. There are concerns about care services moving out of the sector. The Local Government Association has raised its concern about people closing down businesses and withdrawing their services altogether at the very time that demand is increasing and we know that it is going to go on increasing. I have a lot of sympathy with what the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, said about the way in which we look at the funding of this. Funding is at the core of a lot of the challenges we face. Local authorities purchase in bulk. They have the advantage of that negotiation. Self-funders are usually individual people, families who, when mum has a stroke, suddenly find almost overnight that they have to provide nursing or residential care. These are the challenges individual families face almost on a daily basis across the country.

I say to the Minister that I still find it bizarre that we have this subsidy in residential care in the care sector whereby self-funders subsidise those for whom the local authority purchases care. There is never any discussion around this. We do not talk about how fair it is. There is no discussion about the fact that individuals who find they have to self-fund are not paying just their weekly fees, but are also subsidising the person in the next room, or possibly even more than one person. I really think it is time that we exposed how the funding system for care works. It is like having a secret tax that nobody knows about. I find that quite abhorrent.

I agree with the noble Baroness about the need to examine what is expected when people have assets. As a Member of Parliament, I will never forget a couple who were quite elderly themselves—in their sixties—sitting in my surgery virtually in tears at the fact that they were going to have to sell mum’s home because she now needed nursing care unexpectedly, when they had understood that that was likely to come to them. In the context of understanding the responsibility of providing for care, I say to my noble friend that there needs to be joined-up thinking across government. I was quite shocked that when the pension rules were changed so that people with private pension pots could draw down huge amounts of capital from what they had saved over the years, although provisos and bars were set in place to make sure that they had enough to live on, there did not seem to be much discussion about how much of their capital assets they would dispose of, and the whole subject of the amount of capital they would need in order to pay for their long-term care did not really seem to be part of any discussion.

I have one other thing I would just ask my noble friend. Joined-up government is so important, and the weakness has always been between health and social services in terms of agreeing who pays for what. Can my noble friend give the House an update on the sustainability and transformation plans, which should be well under way? It seems to me, if I have understood them correctly, that there is potential here, not just in terms of planning but in terms of finding the resources to implement the plans. We hear a lot about these plans, but I am not sure that everybody really understands what contribution they will make to joining up health and social services, and I hope my noble friend will refer to them when he replies.

NHS: Mental Health Services

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Monday 14th March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right: we have committed to support the request of the task force to spend an extra £1 billion by 2021. Perhaps I may write to him about the phasing of that money over the next five years; I have seen it but I cannot recall the exact figures at the moment.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend outline the Government’s position on future in-patient services for children with mental health issues? Given that these are the most severe cases and that a lack of facilities in geographic proximity to where the children live has an effect on the immediate family, particularly parents, how will the Government resolve the problem of children as in-patients miles from home?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My noble friend raises a problem which is most acute for children and a serious issue for anyone who requires in-patient facilities. We are committed to reducing the number of children and older people who have to go a long way from home to receive in-patient treatment. We have committed to support the task force’s recommendation to spend a great deal more money on providing crisis resolution closer to home. This should obviate the need for people to go into in-patient facilities.

National Health Service: In-Patients with Learning Disabilities

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Monday 18th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right. The national learning disability mortality review programme, which is being hosted by Bristol University, does not have the mandatory basis that other reviews have had. I am not sure why it was not set up on the same basis. It is being funded by NHS England, although it has the support of a wide range of different organisations. I will look into that aspect of the review and write to the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that the failure in hospitals to assess the capacity of people with learning disabilities and those on the autistic spectrum is one of the great weaknesses in providing accurate and timely intervention for people who are in hospital and who have a learning disability? Will he make a particular case for assessing the ability of staff to accurately define capacity? Will he also take another look to see that hospital passports for people with learning disabilities and autism are a mandatory requirement, not just an option, for all inpatients?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My noble friend makes a number of very good points. I will draw them to the attention of Mike Richards, the chief inspector for acute care in England, who is about to embark on a thematic review of avoidable deaths. He will look in particular at those with learning difficulties and I am sure that he will take into account the words of my noble friend.

Health: Parity of Esteem

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Tuesday 20th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

I am not sure that legislation is necessarily the right way forward, but perhaps we can pick up that issue with NHS England to ensure that it is written into the NHS mandate for next year. It is certainly something I will explore with them. It is worth noting that we are spending £94 million a year on IAPT for children, and we have increased spending on tackling eating disorders in young people by £150 million over the course of this Parliament. We are beginning to rectify what has historically been an area of huge underfunding of mental health for young people.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, I support the plea from the noble Lord, Lord Stone, to my noble friend on mindfulness. We have a very active mindfulness group in this Parliament and I hope that my noble friend will encourage all colleagues to sample it for themselves.

When people present at a GP surgery with mental health problems, there are still far too many GPs who reach for the prescription pad. If we really are to get parity of esteem, GPs need more training in mental health and need to be able to access referrals close to their surgery for talking therapies and other such solutions, rather than just reaching for the prescription pad.

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My noble friend makes a very good point: reaching for medication is often not the right way forward. I am not sure how much time in the undergraduate syllabus is reserved for mental health training. However, I know that a considerable amount of time is set aside for it, so that people who decide to become GPs will have had some training in mental health before they qualify. Only last week, I was talking to Clare Gerada, who was the president of the Royal College of General Practitioners. She said that she thought the best combination of all was for a GP to have studied psychiatry as well.