Schools Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Brinton and Lord Knight of Weymouth

Committee stage
Wednesday 8th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, I want briefly to respond to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, about his amendments being detailed and therefore not echoing the feeling of the debate we have had so far. On the contrary, it absolutely gets to the heart of the problem. We heard from the noble Lord, Lord Agnew, in the last group, about the detailed work he had to fulfil as Minister in his role of managing academies as a whole and failing and problematic academies specifically.

The amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, go in the other direction and say that academies should be able to retain their personal freedoms. The difficulty is that the Bill does not give us any sense of the Government’s direction on academies. It is absolutely summed up by those two contradictions. It is important and this is the place in the Bill. I may not agree with all the amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, but I am very grateful that he has laid them because it makes something very clear to me: the Government do not understand what they are trying to achieve.

[Lord Knight of Weymouth (Lab)]

My Lords, I follow those welcome comments from the noble Baroness. This conversation—the closest thing we get to pre-legislative scrutiny—ought to give us the opportunity to guide Ministers in their reflections, which we all urge them to have and hope they will have, on what we think is important and less important; what there must be standards about, if we are to agree that; and what we should leave to academies. That is what the amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, and the next group are helping to do. They are opportunities for noble Lords to flag things they think are sufficiently important that the Secretary of State should have a view on them on behalf of the country.

I too will not get into the whys and wherefores of curriculum freedoms, leadership and management or the length of the school day. I happen to broadly agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, and it is not unusual that we find ourselves in broadly the same place on such things. However, I echo what the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, said. It is awkward, unsatisfactory and goes back to what my noble friend Lady Morris said earlier; this is a difficult Bill for us to deal with at this stage.

The substantive point I want to make to the Minister at this stage is for when the Government are thinking about time for Report and how we deal with it. It will be quite Committee-ish in how we deal with things—assuming they come back with something substantive and different which shows that they have listened to us. We are going to have to have the opportunity to properly debate what we hope will be much more of an educational vision that they will set out for us. We can then put down amendments on it and discuss in the normal way on Report.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

May I very briefly add to that? This is not just a matter for the Government; it is also a matter for the Chief Whip in the timetabling of Report. We had exactly this problem with the Health and Care Bill. We suddenly discovered a lot of detail on Report which should have been visible to us in Committee. As a result, Report took much longer, and the House sat until 1 am or 2 am on certain days. I hope the usual channels are looking at the detail of this because it will affect Report stage.

Parental Bereavement Leave Regulations 2020

Debate between Baroness Brinton and Lord Knight of Weymouth

Tuesday 3rd March 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Knight of Weymouth (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his introduction to these regulations, which I support. I am grateful to the department, and the Government, for bringing them forward. Their importance was brought home to me yet again last year when a work colleague at TES—my interests are in the register—lost a child through stillbirth at the moment of delivery. Having been a part of these discussions for nigh on 10 years, I felt better equipped to provide what support I could. I am happy to say that TES acted as a responsible employer, as the vast majority are, in giving Tara the support that she needed.

These regulations bring into effect the law that we brought through and mark the end of a campaign. It may be unfashionable to say so these days, but it is affirming to note that an individual, Lucy Herd, whose son Jack died 10 years ago, was able to campaign and then use the democratic and parliamentary process to effect a change in the law. She did so by securing all-party support of Members in both Houses. As noble Lords know, I first met her, and discussed her campaign, in a TV studio relatively soon after Jack died. She used the system for No. 10 petitions, as well as change.org, a slightly more sophisticated petitioning website to capture more data and more stories, which were really helpful. I introduced her to the then MP for Glasgow Cathcart, Tom Harris, who introduced a 10-minute rule Bill. That was the first time the issue was introduced in Parliament as part of a campaign.

Lucy was then able to contact those who had signed the petition to let them know that that was happening. I was then able to bring it to this House for the first time, with the Children and Families Act 2014. I am delighted to see the noble Viscount, Lord Younger of Leckie, in his place. He was good enough to meet Lucy and me to discuss the issue then and, in the end, we agreed that we would accept his kind offer that ACAS would issue guidance to employers on this and we would see how it went.

After the 2015 general election, when Will Quince was elected as a Member of Parliament, he raised the issue through an unsuccessful Private Member’s Bill. Mr Quince was able to help get it into the Conservative manifesto for the 2017 election, and then Kevin Hollinrake was able to secure a Private Member’s Bill slot and get it through. The goal was then wide open and I was able to put the ball in the back of the net, thanks to support from Front-Benchers, who are all here today.

I am delighted that when the previous Secretary of State announced that these regulations were forthcoming, the department used Lucy as part of the PR; she had another moment with the media to remember Jack and mark the success of her campaign. It was a nice bookend to the whole experience.

It is worth saying that Parliament and democracy can work. When a case is made intelligently, when all the systems are used well and when politicians on all sides in both Houses are willing to listen—that is not necessarily always the case—we can get great things done. This is a significant thing that we are doing.

I want to say one other thing, almost in parentheses. The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, has a point to make on benefits and the Department for Work and Pensions. I will not steal her thunder, but I am fully supportive of what I think she is about to say. I want to make sure that Ministers who are listening on this issue hear that. With that, I reiterate my support for the regulations and look forward to them being implemented next month.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

I thank the Minister for introducing these regulations. I pay tribute to Lucy Herd, who as we have heard has been campaigning for nearly a decade. When I first learned of the campaign, I knew that it would take a while because the issue is not one that affects many families. Not many families or their wider circle of friends will know somebody who has lost a child or are aware of a stillbirth. I give credit not just to Lucy but to the noble Lord, Lord Knight, Will Quince and Kevin Hollinrake for all the work they have done to ensure that this never lost the eye of Ministers. We may all collectively have been a thorn in their flesh, including myself over the past four or five years, but I am delighted that we have now got to the point where these regulations are coming into play.

I note particularly that account has been taken of the definition of “parent”. I was an informal foster parent. I was not a kinship carer but I had parental responsibility for two children after their mother died, so I am very grateful for that. It is because of such funny modern-day family situations that we need a regulation broad enough to recognise that when people are personally involved and have a responsibility, no employer or state system should say that they do not have the right to receive parental bereavement leave.

I am also grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, who kindly gave me an in to the issue that I want to raise, which I appreciate is not within the remit of BEIS. However, I raised this repeatedly during the passage of the Bill and I want to do so again.

I understand why the decision was made that self-employed parents will not be in receipt of this benefit because they are not in receipt of many other benefits. However, there is a serious inequity for parents, especially those who have stopped working, often for many years, because of the serious medical difficulty that their child has had. They have done so knowing that their child will die. The fact is that under our current system, the day after the child dies, they lose their disability benefit and carer benefit and, shockingly, they have to apply immediately for benefits. I remind the Grand Committee, because I raised this on the Bill, of the words of one parent who wrote:

“The day after, I applied for jobseeker’s allowance, wanting to buy myself a little extra time to grieve before returning to some sort of work, only to be told that because I hadn’t worked in 10 years, I was ineligible, despite the fact that in those 10 years I had worked harder and for many more hours than the average person. The fact that I had saved the Government and the NHS hundreds of thousands of pounds by providing my son with hourly complex medical care counted for nothing. You are told to man up, move on, get a job, pay the bills. Provide for your remaining family.”


That inequity still remains. The noble Lord, Lord Callanan, referred to unemployed parents not being covered but said that the DWP will keep this under review. It will do more than that because the campaign for these parents starts today.

Education Bill

Debate between Baroness Brinton and Lord Knight of Weymouth

Monday 11th July 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Brinton]

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 76A in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Walmsley. I am also supportive of Amendment 77 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Rix. Internationally, the countries performing well in the PISA rankings recruit teachers from among the brightest graduates in their country. In Finland, prospective teachers must have achieved a first-class degree, and are regarded and treated as top professionals in their country with excellent pay which is considerably above the average for our teachers’ salaries in this country. Interestingly, they are also given total responsibility for the curriculum at a school level.

On the previous group, the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, spoke about Finland and the lack of politics in education. I believe that that is partly because education is such a national priority that all parties do not regard it as a key issue over which they need to fight. Four years ago at an OECD conference, I spoke to Finnish colleagues in higher education. While they are not complacent, they know that their system works and produces excellent results. This Bill aims to trust our professional teachers more and I hope that we will move to a system more along the Finnish lines.

[Lord Knight of Weymouth]

My Lords, when the noble Baroness met her friends from Finland, I wonder whether she had similar answers to the last time I met the Finnish Education Minister. I asked her why Finnish schools were so successful. She answered that it was because of a culture within the country that loves learning, which is demonstrated not only in the widespread membership of public libraries. She also told me that in Finland it used to be that you were not allowed to get married unless you could prove that you could read. Does the noble Baroness think that that is a good idea for us to copy from Finland?