Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Baroness Brinton Excerpts

Wednesday 20th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Clancarty]

My Lords, briefly, I support Amendment 10, proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, although I support Amendment 11 as well.

To emphasise how important it is that the new orphan works scheme works and how culturally significant that is for Britain, I agree with everything that the noble Lord said. It is impossible to overestimate the importance of this development for our national museums. For instance, being able to show orphan works—there being such a huge number, indeed millions, of records, papers, photographs and artefacts, some over 1,000 years old—may well make a difference to the quality of display and exhibitions and increase the viability of our collections for international scholarship.

As an artist and creator myself, I might have been expected to vote against Amendment 84AG, which the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, tabled on Report, to allow flexibility in the up-front payment of fees to creators. I did not do so, and I think that I speak for other artists and creators who in this instance can see beyond the minimal benefits to them, if indeed they exist at all, from this aspect of the Bill in the direction of the far more significant wider picture of displaying work, which is often one of the major aims of artists and creators in the first place.

It would be a great shame if, because of this component of the Bill or for any other reason, the orphan works scheme failed or did not operate properly, having come this far. We may find out fairly quickly if this is the case, so three years will be ample time. Given how significant the enabling of orphan works to be shown will be in deepening a sense of British and world culture within our own institutions, we should be able to review the situation at the very least. I support the noble Lord’s amendment.

[Baroness Brinton]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Howarth of Newport, for these two amendments, which are very helpful in trying to balance and find a bridge between the two very distinct sides of the argument that we have seen during the various stages of this Bill—and, in particular, the problems already outlined about whether arrangements for orphan works will work. I am grateful, too, to my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones, for saying that Amendment 10 might be helpful to all parties. I hope that the Minister can give us some encouragement on that.

On Amendment 11, I wanted to point out that I am as concerned as the noble Lord about a large amount of licence fees sitting in a large black hole and then returning to the Government in whatever form as a double taxation. My only question—I apologise as it is rather a technical one, but I saw the amendment only earlier today—is about the five years of royalty payments. If it goes into bona vacantia, how long does it have to sit there before it is released into general Treasury funds? Is it another blocking account? I recognise that the proposal refers to “bona vacantia or otherwise”, and that “otherwise” might refer to the general coffers of the Treasury. It would be helpful to know. My only suggestion to the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, is that five years might be too short a period to search for authors of orphan works.

[The Earl of Erroll]

My Lords, I support both amendments, which were spoken to most ably by the noble Lord, Lord Howarth of Newport. The noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, also made comments that were absolutely right on the nail.

A review is only sensible. An awful lot of the figures should be obtainable from the licensing authorities, whoever is going to be appointed, on the financial stuff, how much is done, and so on. I do not imagine that it will require a huge amount of public money to try to do a review at whatever period is thought best.

As a taxpayer, I am concerned about the up-front fees. The noble Lord, Lord Howarth, almost did not stress that point enough. The notion is that those fees should be set at a rate that means that orphan works do not undercut stuff that might be in a commercial library of works that people can license. They would probably not be on the same subject in most cases; they would be for different purposes. If one of the big national libraries or a university was trying to prepare a work of academic interest, they would not rush around paying fortunes to these libraries that have collections of pictures or text. They cannot do that; they will not have the budget for it. If someone was to look at what this stuff was currently sold for, or licensed for, we could be talking about a huge sum of money going into the bodies collecting for orphan works. We are not talking about a petty million, or something like that.

A department always expands to spend the money provided, so if it is going to be ploughed into trying to collect these things will get enormous and complex, and they will spend money like water. On the subject of BIS sponsoring training programmes, well, we know what happens with most government training programmes, so just to get the point across and to see the horror on the Minister’s face, I volunteer to be either one of the societies collecting the money so that I can have a huge scheme, or one of the chief accredited training agencies, because this will be a licence to print money.

The point is well made by the noble Lord, Lord Howarth. The funding of universities and libraries and institutions like that, which this provision is aimed at, comes out of public or charitable funds, and it is there for a purpose. The concept that this is a hidden tax that then goes back to the Exchequer or to fund a nice quango or whatever is totally unethical. I cannot put that strongly enough. If the public woke up to the fact that that was happening, they would be absolutely horrified, so the Minister would be incredibly well advised to accept this amendment to protect the Government from all sorts of accusations in future—unless, of course, they do not expect to be in power by the time this happens and think that another Government will take the flack. However, given that most politicians think they will still be in power, if I were them I would protect myself.