Zero-emission Vehicle Mandate

Baroness Blake of Leeds Excerpts

Thursday 17th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Woodley]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the potential merits of bringing forward the deadline for requiring all new vehicles sold to be ‘zero emission’ from 2035 to 2030.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

My Lords, accelerating to net zero is at the heart of our mission-driven Government, and this Government are taking action. All new cars and vans sold in the UK from 2035 will need to be fully zero-emission. We are not proposing to change this. However, we are committed to restoring the original 2030 phase-out date for new pure internal combustion engine cars, alongside setting out ways to support demand for zero-emission vehicles and accelerating the rollout of charge points.

[Lord Woodley (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a former union convenor for the Vauxhall plant at Ellesmere Port, where I still have family working. The Tory Government’s delay from 2030 to 2035 has thrown the industry into complete turmoil, as the Minister knows, after manufacturers invested billions to prepare for 2030. What the industry needs most of all now is flexibility as their vehicles disappear from sale, apart from fleet sales. For example, Vauxhall makes electric—

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[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, before my noble friend responds, I make it absolutely clear that this is Question Time and we need questions that are short and succinct, and short and succinct answers from Ministers as well.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Woodley is correct. The ZEV mandate includes zero-emission cars and vans separately. That is because the average emissions from cars and vans are not the same. However, the mandate is based on UK sales and not manufacturing. Manufacturers may continue to build any vehicles and export them. I am aware that the Minister for the Future of Roads, Minister Greenwood, has already met Unite on this topic, and the Department for Transport welcomes continued engagement with the SMMT and trade unions on it.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I agree with the premise behind the Question about the 2030 date from the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, but does the Minister agree that we need new regulations on electric vehicle charging points akin to those we have for petrol stations—regulations on equipment, safety and clear display of pricing—to increase confidence among potential purchasers of vehicles?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

The noble Baroness raises a pertinent and important point. When I was formerly a member of the Electric Vehicle APPG, we had intensive discussions about that. There are enormous issues relating to accessibility and disabled people turning up at points and not being able to access them. We know that local government has a huge role to play in this. A review is taking place and will report in February next year. I hope that everyone can input into that review to make sure that we come up with a much more fair and equitable system.

[Lord Lilley (Con)]

My Lords, given that when the last Government extended the phase-out date from 2030 to 2035 they were aligning with Europe, is the decision of the present Government to go back to 2030 a deliberate decision to misalign with Europe and to seize a Brexit opportunity, or do they just think that the Europeans have got it wrong and they had to overcome their natural Europhilia?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I think the noble Lord has referred to himself as the grit in the oyster. He makes an important point, but we are responding to the demands of car manufacturers. I think everyone can recall the outcry when the change was made by the previous Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, more than a year ago. We are not playing games on this; it is about what is right for the industry, for the consumer and, most importantly, for the country.

[Viscount Thurso (LD)]

My Lords, in addition to regulation, is it not the case that the mode of taxation will also need to change and that, as we electrify our vehicles, we will need to move to road user charging rather than fuel?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

The noble Viscount is absolutely right that the end date for the electric vehicle tax relief is next year. However, as he and everyone else in this Chamber will be aware, we are approaching a Budget and I cannot comment on any matter that might be raised in that.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord’s Question was all to do with zero emission in relation to electric vehicles. Will the Minister consider carefully the alternatives that we are faced with in zero emission, such as synthetic fuel, hydrogen power and so on? Are we not putting all our eggs in the wrong basket?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. I am sure he is aware that trials are taking place around hydrogen-fuelled vehicles as we speak. Everyone is open to looking at new technologies coming along and making sure that we make the most of our mission to clean up the air in this country for the benefit of those who have to breathe it in as well as for the planet, in terms of the climate change objectives.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the Minister will know that the European Union is going to increase by a huge amount the tax on electric vehicles coming in from China. Can she tell me, or perhaps write to assure me, that this will not affect electric cars in Northern Ireland, which under the Windsor Framework is still in the European Union for this kind of thing? Does it mean that people in Northern Ireland will have to pay more or less for their electric cars?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

The noble Baroness is right to raise the issue of China and Chinese imports. At the moment, imports from China represent 34% of EV cars coming into the country. We will work closely with our US allies and, obviously, with Europe—but we need to focus on economic security. I cannot answer the specific question that she asks about Northern Ireland, but I am happy to follow up with correspondence on the matter.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, why do the Government think that people on ordinary incomes will be able to afford these cars, especially if they have to take into account the possibility, which I hear is on the table, of road pricing?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I think the noble Lord has to reflect on the fact that we are talking about the new car market. An enormous amount of work needs to be brought together around the second-hand market—which also includes recycling the key component parts so that they do not end up in landfill or other places—so we can make sure that expensive components are available.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, does the Minister share the views put to me by other Ministers that the biggest problem they have is clearing up the mess created by the previous Tory Government?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

Yes.

[Lord Sandhurst (Con)]

I am not sure we have yet had an answer on the Government’s view on road pricing. Can the Minister answer and make it clear whether we are going to go down that line?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

In terms of clear answers, I thought I had made it absolutely clear that I am not able to comment at this point in time.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We definitely did not get a clear answer to the question of whether ordinary people can afford these types of car. Perhaps the Minister would like another opportunity to answer that one.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I made it absolutely clear that we are talking about affordability across the piece. The new car market is a relatively small part of cars coming in altogether. Affordability is very much an objective on this side of the House, and I do not think we need any lectures at all on how we make sure that all people can benefit from improving manufacturing and living standards.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

Should we not be grateful that we are in a better position financially than we would have been, had we been trying to shift London airport down into the estuary?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I am sure the noble Lord has far more information on that subject, and I welcome his contribution.