Online Safety Bill

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Committee stage
Thursday 11th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I have attached my name to Amendments 52 and 99 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, respectively signed by the noble Lords, Lord Bethell and Lord Clement-Jones, and Amendment 222 in her name. I entirely agree with what both the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, and the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, said. The noble Lord in particular gave us a huge amount of very well-evidenced information on the damage done during the Covid pandemic—and continuing to be done—by disinformation and misinformation. I will not repeat what they said about the damage done by the spread of conspiracy theories and anti-vaccination falsehoods and the kind of malicious bots, often driven by state actors, that have caused such damage.

I want to come from a different angle. I think we were—until time prevented it, unfortunately—going to hear from the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, which would have been a valuable contribution to this debate. Her expert medical perspective would have been very useful. I think that she and I were the only two Members in the Committee who took part in the passage of the Medicines and Medical Devices Act. I think it was before the time of the noble Lord, Lord Bethell—he is shaking his head; I apologise. He took part in that as well. I also want to make reference to discussions and debates I had with him over changes to regulations on medical testing.

The additional point I want to make about disinformation and misinformation—this applies in particular to Amendment 222 about the independence of the advisory committee on disinformation and misinformation—is that we are now seeing in our medical system a huge rise in the number of private actors. These are companies seeking to encourage consumers or patients to take tests outside the NHS system and to get involved in a whole set of private provision. We are seeing a huge amount of advertising of foreign medical provision, given the pressures that our NHS is under. In the UK we have had traditionally, and still have, rules that place severe restrictions on the direct advertising of medicines and medical devices to patients— unlike, for example, the United States, where it is very much open slather, with some disastrous and very visible impacts.

We need to think about the fact that the internet, for better or for worse, is now a part of our medical system. If people feel ill, the first place they go—before they call the NHS, visit their pharmacist or whatever—is very often the internet, through these providers. We need to think about this in the round and as part of the medical system. We need to think about how our entire medical ecology is working, and that is why I believe we need amendments like these.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes two incredibly important points. We are seeking to give people greater agency on their own health and the internet has been an enormous bonus in doing that, but of course that environment needs to be curated extremely well. We are also seeking to make use of health tech—non-traditional clinical interventions, some of which do not pierce the skin and therefore fall outside the normal conversation with GPs—and giving people the power to make decisions about the use of these new technologies for themselves. That is why curation of the health information environment is so important. Does the noble Baroness have any reflections on that.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

I thank the noble Lord for his intervention. He has made me think of the fact that a particular area where this may be of grave concern is cosmetic procedures, which I think we debated during the passage of the Health and Care Act. These things are all interrelated, and it is important that we see them in an interrelated way as part of what is now the health system.

Health and Care Bill

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Lords Hansard - Part 2 & Committee stage
Tuesday 11th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I want to say a brief word in support of the amendment on innovation in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton.

Having just been the Minister for Innovation, I can tell noble Lords that they could fill their entire diary travelling the country and seeing fantastic innovation in the NHS up and down the country. Noble Lords could fill their Zoom calls speaking to countries around the world that look to the NHS for some of the best innovation and partner with it on innovative programmes. However, that innovation is often extremely isolated and rarely spread evenly across the whole country. In fact, I often thought that my job title should have been not Minister for Innovation but Minister for Adoption because my role should have been to take the best that the NHS does and spread it across the country more evenly. That is the objective of the Government’s health policy at the moment: to see a much more even spread of best practice right across the country.

Although we cannot legislate for culture, we can give signals to the system about what we think is important. I therefore think that the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, is on to something in suggesting this amendment. It should be given careful thought by the Minister.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I rise to offer Green support for all the amendments in this group. I will split them into two groups internally. First, I will speak to Amendments 6, 19, 60 and 215; I will then deal with Amendment 21 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Davies, separately.

All these amendments are about transparency and targets. When we look back to when targets were a particular focus—when the NHS was under the control of the party on these Benches—there were concerns that targets could sway provision and medical judgments. There was a concern that this was about the management of targets rather than the outcome for the patient. However, if we think of targets as foundations and basic standards that need to be met, it is really important that we ensure that there is enough funding for local priorities and concerns to be addressed to reach a higher level.

Amendment 215, which refers to an annual report, is particularly interesting; I know that it has full cross-party support. This is about people knowing what the NHS is achieving and, importantly, whether there is enough provision in it. Of course, your Lordships’ House is not in a position to demand that more money goes into the NHS; by constitutional norms, we cannot deal with spending. However, I think that we should frame this debate—this is my first contribution in Committee—by looking at the pre-Covid figures. The UK was spending £2,989 per person on healthcare; this was the second-lowest in the G7. France was spending £3,737; Germany, £4,432.

Of course, the great outlier in this is the US, spending £7,736 a year. It is worth noting that we seem to be chasing so much after the US healthcare model, which is so absolutely disastrous. Most of the amendments in this group are a way for your Lordships’ House to give the public the tools to say that we need to improve the resources of our NHS.

Covid-19

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

I am grateful for my noble friend’s kind remarks. Her question is extremely complex, and difficult to answer briefly but I will rest on one particular answer. As I said before, this is a question of getting the disease transmission to a point where R is below one. If that can be done on a national basis, we have contained the disease. We can then turn to local outbreak management. That is when test and trace resources will come into their own and local deployment will make a big difference. That is when we can consider the virus to have been beaten. We are not quite there yet, but vaccination rates are incredibly impressive and I am hopeful that we are near to that point.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, the Statement given in the other place said that

“our wall of protection must be more than just vaccines alone”.—[Official Report, Commons, 19/7/21; col. 688.]

Yet it made no mention of ventilation despite its obvious importance, given that I am hearing, as I am sure many others are, about double-vaccinated people becoming infected every day, and about the widespread transmission of Covid-19 in schools among children of all ages. The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, asked, without answer, whether air filtration was being installed over the holidays in every school. I add—this could be done rather more cheaply—can schools be given help over the summer to do a ventilation plan for every classroom? Strategic placement of fans, and the choice and manner of window-opening, could be crucial. I see from media reports that the Government plan to replace the “hands, face, space” slogan with the slogan “keep life moving”. If it is not too late, may I suggest that “keep air moving” would be far more useful?

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for giving me an opportunity to address this issue, and I hope the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, will forgive me for overlooking it in my opening answers. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, is entirely right: ventilation is critical—but it is also challenging. On air filters, we have to understand better the science of whether filtration really makes an impact on the spread of the virus. I would not want investment in a large amount of ventilation infrastructure that did not actually have an impact. I agree that we have a lot to learn from the Victorians, who understood these matters very well. We must understand how modern buildings, which are often airtight to achieve environmental qualifications, may need to be adapted to get fresh air within them. We may also need to change our lifestyles, so that more socialising, eating and drinking is done outside—something that I, as an outdoorsy person, would very much welcome.

Covid-19

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Thursday 15th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I thought I had answered the questions put by the two noble Baronesses. I will seek to answer the noble Lord. He is absolutely right: our hospitals are working flat out but this is not mainly because of Covid. As of 11 July, hospital admissions in England were running at 502 a day. As of 13 July, there were 2,970 patients in hospital in England with Covid, of whom 470 were on mechanical ventilation. Catching up on all the backlog—not Covid—is what is consuming the hospitals and making them run so red hot. This is the focus of our healthcare system at the moment, and it will remain so for some time to come. We are under no illusions: there is a massive backlog which includes many people who have not come forward with symptoms of severe disease and will need to be addressed and treated. This is a huge national project that we are undertaking.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, in his answer to the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft, the Minister made a comparison which suggested an equivalence between mask-wearing and sneezing. The website MedExpress says:

“Sneezing is…an involuntary release of air that helps the body to get rid of irritants in our nose and throat”.


Does the Minister wish to reconsider that comparison and acknowledge that mask-wearing is a voluntary action available to everybody?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Baroness obliges me to confess that, as a young man, I mastered the art of controlling my sneezing, and I am pathetically proud of this. I should be glad to share the skill with her should we have the opportunity to spend some time together.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Thursday 8th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The bottom line is that we believe that any rise in the infection rate will not have an impact on hospitalisation in a way that will disrupt the NHS. This is something that we have worked on with NHS colleagues, the clinical directors, the CMO’s office and the JBC, and we have taken into account a large variety of advice, including from SAGE. At the end of the day, it is our belief that, despite the rise of a third wave, hospitalisation rates will be manageable.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, following on from the question from the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, about the 3.8 million patients on the shielding list, will there be special provision for them to have antibody testing? Many of them may have had the vaccine but will not be sure whether it has been effective. Will there also be practical support for them? For example, if they do not feel that it is safe to go out, will there be help with shopping, special arrangements for medical appointments and other practical help?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

We have committed to issuing guidelines for the vulnerable and immunosuppressed before 19 July. I cannot share with the noble Baroness at this stage exactly what those guidelines will say, but her points are very well made. We have not made a decision on antibody testing yet, but she raises an important point. We have a number of therapeutics and antivirals that may provide either prophylactic protection or support in the case of infection. Knowing whether somebody has antibodies before they go into the winter is one of the things that should really help to provide reassurance as well as important clinical data on how treatment might pan out. We are looking at the use of antibody tests for that reason.

COVID-19 Variant: Travel Guidance for Local Authorities

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Wednesday 26th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, given the long, arduous months of confinement suffered by the city of Leicester, compounded by the confusion caused by the apparent secret lockdown, and then the recognition that the city of Leicester should not have been included on the list, according to the figures—that arose as a result of a faulty calculation—can the Minister explain how the error came to be made in the case of the city of Leicester and how it will be avoided in future?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, guidance for people in Bolton and Blackburn with Darwen was published on Friday 14 May. It was then extended on 21 May to Bedford, Burnley, Hounslow, Leicester and North Tyneside. That guidance has now been fine-tuned, in response to feedback from the local directors of public health and, as the noble Baroness will know, the website has been updated. The chronology of that is relatively straightforward. It could have been done better—that I have made plain to the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton—and we are with working directors of public health, local authorities and others to ensure that we get smoother systems for that kind of thing.

Covid-19 Internal Review

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Thursday 20th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am extremely grateful to my noble friend for his comments. He is entirely right. The battle against anti-vaxxers has been very successful. We have used a spirit of dialogue with people who have very personal and legitimate questions about a vaccine that requires an injection of fluids into their body. People quite reasonably have detailed questions about its impact. I applaud officials and partners of the Government who have been so effective at conveying the message on the safety and efficacy of the vaccine. It really has demonstrated the power of government and NHS communications at their best.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, I join the chorus of welcome to the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, who referred, as have other Peers, to the National Audit Office report on the handling of the pandemic. Commenting on that, Gareth Davies, the head of the NAO, stressed the need to “learn lessons at speed”. The Minister has often expressed how useful and informative he has found the contributions in your Lordships’ House. Would those contributions not be better informed if Members could absorb and reflect on the findings of the internal review as the country and the world continue to deal with what is, certainly on the global level, a raging and deeply dangerous pandemic?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am enormously grateful to the NAO for the powerful report that it has published. It said many complimentary things about the Government’s handling of the pandemic. I am grateful to noble Lords for the counsel and challenge that they have given here in this Chamber. I point out the vast amount of data and information that we have published, which is at the disposal of the public and parliamentarians. However, confidential advice from officials to Ministers on a means-of-working review is not the kind of thing that I think adds to this sort of debate, and for that reason it is most appropriately kept confidential.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 18th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I enjoyed the contemporary dance at Sadler’s Wells, which really lifted my heart, but I rather wish I had been at Saracens for that thumping victory and to see my favourite team doing so well after a difficult year. I very clearly hear the concerns of noble Lords about social mixing of amber and red route passengers at airports, and one reads about it in the papers. I reassure noble Lords that the amount of segregation in place in the airports is the focus of both Border Force and the Home Office. We are absolutely doing our best. We are looking at red list terminals, but the practicalities of that when there is a relatively low level of flights are very challenging indeed. I reiterate my point that if you are travelling you are putting yourself at risk, and there is no way we can pretend otherwise. If you are travelling, you should isolate yourself for a substantial amount of time when you touch down in the UK. This question of mingling in airports is, to some extent, a red herring.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, it is clear that the B16172 variant of SARS-CoV-2 is now established in the community, but that only highlights the need to keep out further variants of concern that will inevitably arise around the world as the coronavirus runs rampant. Following the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins of Tavistock, can the Minister reassure me about the security arrangements in quarantine facilities given the number of cases of transmission in New Zealand and Australia, who have long practised quarantine? How often are staff being tested? Are they being paid in ways that mean they do not have to take other jobs, particularly jobs where they may have contact with large numbers of people? Are ventilation systems being checked regularly?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is entirely right to cite the examples of Australia and New Zealand and the challenges they have had with staff manning managed quarantine facilities. I am extremely grateful to officials from both Australia and New Zealand for the very thorough briefings we had when we set up our managed quarantine facilities. We totally took on board their profound insight on that area and that was the number one thing they told us to get right. We focused on it, we have invested in it, and that has worked well to date.

Covid-19: Government’s Publication of Contracts

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Thursday 11th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right: it has been the most amazing turnaround—an achievement that has surprised me. This has absolutely turned on its head some of the assumptions about what Britain’s manufacturing base can achieve in terms of affordability, technical ability and return on investment. I am enormously proud of that achievement, and I can reassure the noble Baroness that we are absolutely doubling down on it. It has made us rethink our entire manufacturing strategy for medicinal, pharmaceutical and health products and medical devices.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, given that we are not now in an unpredictable emergency situation but in a long-term continuing pandemic, can the Minister reassure me that all treatments of future contracts will meet the legal reporting requirements and that the Government might even eventually publish the full structure of test and trace?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

We absolutely endeavour to fulfil the Cabinet Office guidelines on the publication of contracts, and I can provide that reassurance to the noble Baroness. It is my understanding that the structure of test and trace has been published. I will look into finding a link to that and would be glad to send it to her.

Women’s Health Strategy

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 9th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, as Minister for Innovation I favour using technology and the latest techniques wherever possible to provide options and choices for all patients, including women, to address their conditions. With women, the delicate question of their bodies, and the different functioning of their bodies to men’s, is one that the health system has to reconcile itself to. I do not regard technology as a panacea to that central challenge; in fact, I think that many of the issues that women face will require face-to-face consultations, and we remain committed to ensuring that that is an option for everyone.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, I will not ask the Minister whether he has read Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez—or the medical chapter at least—but, if he has not, I would recommend it. One of the things that it highlights is how many widely and long-used drugs have never been tested for any sex and gender variations in responses. Do the Government have a systematic programme for checking that all drugs have been so appropriately assessed—so that, when the results of this call for evidence are received and acted on, appropriate treatments are available to the newly enlightened medical systems?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I have previously referred to the challenge of gender-comprehensive clinical trials. There is growing evidence that drug prescriptions should be personalised a great deal more than they are, right across the board—not just on a gender basis but on genomic, ethnic, age and weight bases as well. The noble Baroness makes an extremely good point on this. I cannot guarantee that we will retrospectively conduct gender-specific clinical trials on the full library of medicines in the medicine cabinet, but we are keen to aspire to ensuring a future commitment to gender-specific clinical trials going forwards.

Covid-19

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Thursday 11th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, SAGE is entirely right that we have to be careful about indirect travel. That is why we have introduced a passenger form that requires people to detail all their recent travels. It is why we have attributed to the filling-in of the form very serious enforcement measures, including the potential for a large custodial sentence if it is filled in incorrectly. It is why we are using all the benefits of technology and of airline databases in order to track people’s travel and ensure that they are not in any way misleading us or skipping around borders to get here. The noble Lord is right that this is a very serious matter. This is a 21st-century pandemic and we are determined to use the techniques of the 21st century to keep out variants of concern. Countries such as Taiwan, Iceland, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore have demonstrated that if you use thoughtful 21st-century methods then you can make a big impact on transmission, and that is what we are determined to do.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

In his answer to the noble Lord, Lord Patel, the Minister said that

“the crew are, wherever possible, vaccinated.”

It was not clear from context whether the Minister was referring only to plane and train crews or also to bus drivers and quarantine hotel staff. Is this a change in government policy to prioritise the vaccination of key workers, as the Green Party has been calling for?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

While I acknowledge the Green Party’s views on this matter, the JCVI has been clear about what prioritisation levels 1 to 4 are. As I said earlier, we will be looking at the other prioritisation lists in time. I am in no way signalling a change in government policy, because that, I am afraid to say, is not in my gift.

Covid-19: Vaccinations

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Wednesday 13th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I pay tribute to the role of dispensing GPs, who will play an incredibly important role in the rollout. However, I reject the suggestion that any spike in care homes is in any way related to decisions on the second dose. The new variant has spread throughout society, including care homes, and that is the explanation for the spike.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

Can the Minister assure the House that the Government have a co-ordinated plan involving not just vaccination but improved test, trace, self-isolate and support, and flexing controls on commercial and social activity to reduce and control the levels of the virus over the coming weeks and months? Can he tell us when the Government plan to publish such a plan? Obviously, events will have an impact, but now that we have had a year of learning about the virus, surely the Government have an overall vision of how we as a nation will emerge from the pandemic, and it would help us all if that was shared with the nation.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right that we have the vaccine today but that does not mean that we will not need to be testing, distancing and washing tomorrow. In fact, there will be a very large number of people—tens of millions—who will not be vaccinated through the summer but who could still catch the disease. We have to make provisions for our public health to protect those people in the workplace, in society and in their homes. The plan is very clear—it is the plan that we have already. However, the noble Baroness is right that we have to be focused on it and ensure it is kept up to date and deployed with energy and enthusiasm.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 15th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My noble friend Lord Balfe is entirely right to say that the symptoms in young people are zero in many cases. There are issues of both saliency and believability among many young people who think that this is a disease that simply does not touch their lives. It is understandable that they may think it implausible that they could be carrying the disease. However, the statistics are crystal clear. When looking at the heat maps, you can see easily how infections grow among the young and then graduate through the demographics until they hit older people, and then hospital admissions rise. I am extremely sympathetic to young people and why they find this idea a challenge to believe in, but we have to hit home with this message—otherwise, we will not be able to contain the disease.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, my question follows that asked earlier by the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham, to the noble Baroness, Lady Stedman-Scott. It referred to how some local authorities have run out of funds to give the £500 payment for people to self-isolate, when they would not otherwise be able to financially. In response, the noble Baroness said that there is only a fixed envelope of money, suggesting that no more would be provided to those local authorities. As Health Minister, would the noble Lord agree with me that, whatever tier people are living in, they have to be able to self-isolate and feed themselves, pay their rent, et cetera? Do people not need that £500 in every part of the country, without there being a postcode lottery?

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is entirely right: the whole purpose of the isolation payments and the idea behind them is the recognition that people who are being asked to self-isolate, particularly if they come from a low-income household, to which the isolation payment is targeted, need financial support to fulfil their civic obligations. That is why we put the scheme in place. It is true that it has been tremendously successful in some areas. We continue to review whether that fund needs to be topped up.

Ockenden Review

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Monday 14th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, policy officials at the DHSC are working with both the CQC and NHS England on improving our surveillance and the publication of data, as the noble Baroness rightly points out. A key development in this area is the work by HSIB to investigate each and every death and major incident in maternity suites. That provides an absolutely invaluable resource to understand where and when things go wrong. We will continue to publish those reports as they happen and will learn lessons from their insights.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, much of this debate has already focused on the issue of staffing shortages in our NHS, particularly among midwives. I am sure that the Minister is aware of the survey last month from the Royal College of Midwives, which showed that 83% of midwives did not believe that their trust or board had enough staff to provide a safe service and 42% said that half or more of their shifts were understaffed. The Minister referred to recruitment campaigns and investment in future training, but the Ockenden review calls for an immediate focus on relationship building, training and things that will take a great deal of time and resources to deliver, where there are problems. I cannot see any alternative if we are to fill some of those gaps immediately. Training will take many years, but an overseas recruitment of midwives will bring in the staff we need to create the space to allow people to have that training—that time and reflection.

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I respectfully disagree with the noble Baroness’s insight—the Ockenden review does not point the finger at staffing levels in relation to the problems; it points the finger at a number of items, particularly the cultural problems that emerge when differences of opinion between clinicians and midwives arise and where a culture of respect breaks down. Those cultural differences can be improved by what we would politely call education; it is essential that we invest in the right kind of education in order to bring midwives, obstetricians and gynaecologists closer together and to break down the hierarchical differences and the ideological differences about the best way to have a baby.

HIV: Pre-exposure Prophylaxis

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 1st December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord will be aware that there is a detailed conversation with local authorities about ensuring that we get exactly the right balance for funding. As the noble Baroness rightly pointed out, we need to make sure that the supply of PrEP is conducted in a way where there is good consultation and where those who are applying for the therapy are given good advice. That is best done with help from local authorities, and we are trying to hammer out a deal to ensure that that is done thoughtfully. That deal has been delayed by Covid, but we are looking forward to announcing a resolution of that before the next funding round finishes.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, can the Minister confirm that the Government are collecting information on who is accessing PrEP in England? It is obviously crucial to ensure that there is equity among the groups given the currently limited supply, unlike the situation in Scotland and Wales, to which the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, has just referred. Will the Government commit to publishing the data on who is accessing PrEP?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am not sure that I can give the reassurances that the noble Baroness is looking for. These are very delicate and private matters. I am not sure if it is right that the details of who is accessing PrEP are necessarily for are public domain, but I would welcome any suggestion that she might have in correspondence about what exactly she is looking for.

Personal Protective Equipment: Procurement

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Thursday 19th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am extremely grateful to my noble friend for giving me advance notice of his question. I am aware of the changes in procurement practices in the NHS, which I welcome. They will have a huge impact and protect us in the case of future pandemics. I am also aware of the phenomenal effort by British manufacturers, which have stepped up to the challenge of producing PPE and have, in my view, gone a lot further than anyone expected, producing around 50% of the NHS’s PPE. There have clearly been unintended consequences if this company, Wearwell, has somehow fallen off the procurement list. I would be happy to take a letter from my noble friend and look into the matter.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, public trust has clearly been lost over PPE procurement and the NAO report. What do the Government plan to do to restore it?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I simply do not accept the assumption of that question. I think that the public see a Government who stepped up to an enormous challenge and did their best under very difficult circumstances. Many of the public individually stood up as volunteers and many professionals returned to former jobs to help out. Many businesspeople turned over their capacity, their staff or their focus to help out in the pandemic, and the Government took on a huge amount of support from members of the public. These sweeping assumptions that somehow everything was done in a negative way are very unhelpful and in fact do not chime with the mood of the public at all.

Covid-19: South Yorkshire

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Thursday 22nd October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I am glad to reassure the noble Lord that Manchester businesses will be getting a payment to cover the backlog, as he described.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, my city, Sheffield, and the South Yorkshire region have been mentioned a great deal today. My specific question, of which I have given prior notice, comes from the Green councillors there but is, sadly, of interest to an increasing number of areas of the country. When can the funding for tier 3 areas be expected to arrive? Will it be in regular tranches or a lump sum? When can it be expected to reach businesses? Are conditions attached to the money and its continuation?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, grants will be available from 1 November, will be administered by local authorities and will remain in place until April 2021, with a review point in January. The funding will apply only to England and, if applied across the country, would provide over £250 million of support each month.

Covid-19

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 20th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I reassure the noble Baroness that 24 hours is our objective, and it is clear that a 24-hour target is right. Having swift turnaround is conducive to effectiveness, and that is what we are trying to do. There has been a very large increase in demand in the last 11 weeks, which has put pressure on our operations and pushed back some of our turnaround times. We are working extremely hard to address that; new capacity is coming on-stream all the time, and we are hopeful that that can be turned around very quickly.

The noble Baroness is entirely right to raise her point on clarity, which is very similar to those raised by others, including the right reverend Prelate. There is a really important balance that we have to get right here because to have communal buy-in to our measures, we need to somehow mobilise leaders that people trust, from their faith community, their local community or other leadership groups that they subscribe to.

However, to give people a role in the decision-making about what measures are to take place in one area or another, there will be an uneven application of regulations—what happens in one place will not be the same in another. We have made a commitment to a partnership between national and local government, and we are trying to manage that complex partnership at the moment. As noble Lords know from the discussions in the other place and our conversations with Manchester, this is an extremely bumpy affair and it does not always work out well.

However, we are committed to doing this precisely for the reasons the noble Baroness described: to have buy-in, we need to mobilise all the country and all the people who are respected by those who adhere to the rules. That is why we take the approach we do. It means that gyms will be open in Lancashire but not in Merseyside. It is argued that this is a complexity that the British public can handle. It also takes us into very public conversations about funding, the allocation of resources and the establishment of new testing facilities. We believe it is worth the administrative and political effort to try to do that. There are also delays to the implementation of some of the restrictions. The British public will form their own judgment on their politicians and whether that is worth their while. These are the prices and friction costs to the local/national partnership that we are committed to, which has been advocated on the Benches of this Chamber for many months.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, referred to the risk of mixing indoors. From the housing department, the noble Lord, Lord Greenhalgh, today kindly answered a Written Question from me about ventilation standards in building regulations in the light of Covid-19. It referred to the most recent SAGE paper on aerosol transmission, dated 22 July. The science on aerosol transmission has moved on a great deal since then. The noble Lord indicated that a new paper is being prepared by the SAGE Environmental and Modelling group. I note that German schools, for example, have strict conditions about opening windows regularly, even in the coldest conditions. Is the Minister confident that the current strength of advice on levels of ventilation, particularly to businesses where people are mixing, either retail premises, offices, or gyms, as we have been discussing, and to schools, is adequate?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right to raise questions about the way in which the disease is transmitted. We have put a huge amount of effort into studying it. I pay tribute to the epidemiologists who have crafted sophisticated models and have sought to test them in practical ways in order to establish, for good, the really important questions of how one person’s conversation, breathing and spoken word might transmit the disease to another person either through the air or on surfaces. Understanding that is absolutely essential in order for us to put in place the right kinds of Covid safety measures. However, at this stage it is an imprecise science. For instance, there is some evidence that transmission from hygiene and surfaces can play a very important role, perhaps meaning that we have to invest more thought and commitment in cleaning measures. The guidelines we have for workplace and school testing reflect the very best provable standards according to scientific evidence. We continue to invest in these important epidemiological insights, and I welcome very much the contribution of the scientists on SAGE and all those who continue to try to gain a better understanding of this issue.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 6th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, questions in your Lordships’ House on this Statement have understandably focused on Covid-19, but the Statement as delivered in the other place is a broad-ranging survey. It starts by talking about treatments for Covid and then shifts to approvals for new cancer treatments; it looks at the expansion of urgent and emergency care; and those mysterious 40 new hospitals appear yet again, as the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, alluded to. In that context, I ask the Minister whether this Statement is sufficiently balanced. If this is a survey, where is the public health element?

Covid has exposed, even more than we recognised before, a deeply unhealthy society with terrible diets, inadequate opportunities for exercise, poverty, stress, and a mental health epidemic. We know from Victorian and early 20th-century times that it is public health measures that really make the difference. In facing up to tackling Covid, surely that is the direction in which we need to be looking. For example, new research today showing the impact of air pollution includes some very stirring suggestions that childhood exposure has an impact on the rates of dementia and Alzheimer’s. My questions to the Minister are these. Are the Government paying enough attention to public health? Is their strategy sufficiently balanced? Are they funding and doing enough on the broad measures that will create the healthier society that is so clearly desperately needed in the time of Covid or at any other time?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

In her analysis of the Statement, the noble Baroness is, as ever, inspiring and optimistic. I am extremely grateful for her remarks. The Building Back Better programme will put a vision for public health at the centre of our efforts. We will build on this awful epidemic to ensure that our public health outcomes improve.

Covid-19: Adult Social Care Complaints

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Monday 5th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the nature of any future inquiry has not yet been defined. However, all parties will be taking learnings from Covid and bringing forward their lessons-learned experience. As the major regulator, the CQC will play a leading role in bringing together the data and information from the front line but, as the complainant of last resort, the ombudsman will also play an important role in that process by bringing insight from patients and those who have made complaints.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, indicated, in the context of Covid many families and patients will be looking to stay at home and receive private care there, for longer than they might have. The Minister referred to the “Because we all care” publicity campaign about the ombudsman and its services. However, the annual review of adult social care complaints called for mandatory signposting. Will the Government be introducing mandatory arrangements and rules to be followed by all private providers to ensure that the services of the ombudsman are signposted to people who may need them—not just a publicity campaign but clear direction and information being provided to everyone who might need it?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise that the ombudsman’s recent report on adult social care did call for a statutory requirement for signposting. We have worked substantially with the sector to improve signposting of the ombudsman and other routes of complaint. The commitment by CQC and Healthwatch to the “Because we all care” campaign is an important and effective measure to fill the gap and raise awareness of the complaints procedure. It is right to wait until we see the results of that campaign. We acknowledge the possibility of mandatory signposting but would like to see a voluntary and more effective marketing campaign work if it possibly can.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Thursday 10th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, my understanding is that the risk assessment is done by the local police force in conjunction with Public Health England, but I am happy to check that and write to my noble friend. With regard to Extinction Rebellion, I found the protest last week particularly tedious but I am not sure if it will be outlawed quite yet.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister has taken great pains today to stress the need to ensure that our limited number of tests are well used. I want to revisit the issue I have raised with him before: the list of symptoms as a result of which people are encouraged to take a test. I am sure he is aware of the University of Belfast study of paediatric infection rates, which showed that among children with antibodies a cough was no more common than among those without, while gastrointestinal symptoms such as diarrhoea, vomiting and abdominal cramps were significantly associated with coronavirus infection. Given that many other countries, including the United States, and the World Health Organization list a greater range of symptoms, will the Government consider communicating clearly with the public when the tests are needed, based on the scientific evidence?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises a very difficult subject. A huge amount of work has gone on in this country and others to define the most effective possible list of symptoms. The honest truth is that this disease manifests itself in different people in a great many different ways, and we have done a huge amount to try to understand the list of symptoms to be described in a way that will capture the greatest number of people in the clearest way possible. We keep that under review, but the work that has gone into it could not have been more thorough.

Childhood Obesity

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Wednesday 2nd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to those at Public Health England who brought together the obesity strategy announced in July and who will continue to work on the obesity strategy. We are consulting on where the ultimate home for that team should be. I emphasise that the obesity strategy launched in July was the most holistic and joined-up piece of policy on obesity in recent times. I emphasise that the money that has come from the sugar tax is now going to pay for sports in schools.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, referred to the need for what the IPPR—in a report from last week that I am sure the Minister is aware of—called a “whole society” approach. The current strategy focuses on a few aspects of consumption. Will the Government consider the issue of production and the fact that large multinational companies are making huge profits from unhealthy products, particularly in the beverage sector? What will the Government do to make sure that they make a larger contribution to solving the problem they have created?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the IPPR report, but it is not true that the Government do not have a whole-society approach. Our approach to obesity involves physical education, supporting underprivileged families, addressing issues with marketing and a whole range of different issues. As for the noble Baroness’s points on profit, this Government are not against profit, but we are for healthy outcomes for young people.

Smoking

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Monday 20th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell [V]]

I take a different view from the noble Baroness on the success of pubs’ efforts to introduce social distancing. I spent the weekend in a number of pubs and I was extremely impressed by the measures that publicans have put in place. That is why we support the role of local authorities in judging the right measures for the right pubs and why we will support the government amendment.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, I am sure that the Minister is aware that the rate of smoking among adults in Blackpool is almost double that of Westminster. Given the Government’s levelling-up agenda, plus the fact that we know that smoking is related to illnesses that amplify the impact of Covid-19, and indeed threaten greater rates of death, why have we not seen emergency legislation to bring in a smoke-free 2030 fund, which has already been well explored and set out?

[Lord Bethell [V]]

I completely agree with the noble Baroness that there is a massive health dimension to the levelling-up agenda. Health inequalities affect families the hardest and the Government are highly focused on them. However, it is not our style to introduce emergency legislation, because we believe that prevention is better than cure and that people have rights and choices to make for themselves.

Independent Medicines and Medical Devices Safety Review

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Wednesday 15th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness is entirely right. The report must not be left on the shelf. We have already done much, and in the Medicines and Medical Devices Bill we will do more. The other recommendations will be taken extremely seriously.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, this wonderful but deeply disturbing report has so many points to make, but one point that has not been brought out in coverage as much as it might have been is the noble Baroness’s recommendation that the responsibility for ensuring transparency of interests should fall not only on the medical profession but also on manufacturers, who must take responsibility for ensuring that, where they are creating potential conflicts of interests with medical professionals and researchers, they show that. Can the Minister tell me what plans the Government have to make sure that manufacturers are being open, honest and transparent in all their dealings and that, should they not act in that matter, action is taken?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness is entirely right that transparency is essential in order to have a fair and equitable healthcare system. The GMC has already considered these areas and has moved a long way. The world has changed considerably since many of these horrific events took place, but I am sure there is more to be done and this recommendation, like others, will be considered seriously by the Government.

Food: Fruit and Vegetables

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Monday 6th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness is right about the effects of diabetes, and the impact of Covid on those with diabetes has been profound. It is described well in the PHE report and is a source of enormous sadness. The Government are looking at ways to react to the Covid pandemic, but my instincts are to regard it as an inflection point for the nation’s health. The Government will look at ways to mark this moment with a suitable campaign to encourage healthy eating.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister may be aware of the pioneering work of the American nutritionist Clara M Davis, in the 1920s, who found that just-weaned infants, allowed to choose their own food from a range of healthy natural options, chose a balanced highly nutritious diet and enjoyed it. But our children see a continual parade on their screens and in the shops of highly processed food of low nutritional quality. Does the Minister not think that we need to create space, in their stomachs and minds, to allow the healthy fruit and vegetables in?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness does me a great service to point out the good work of Clara M Davis, who I was not aware of previously. She makes a very good point: the effect of advertising on children in school is profound—and not just on children but on adults, as well. The danger of ring-fencing children is that they do not learn how to make proper choices in the long term. That is why the emphasis of our work is on ensuring that children learn the difference between good and bad food, learn how to make the right decisions and learn the habits that can set them up for a lifetime.

Ultra-processed Foods

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Thursday 2nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to reduce the amount of ultra-processed foods available for purchase in the United Kingdom.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Bethell) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, to address the consumption of food and drinks high in fat, sugar and salt, Public Health England oversees the sugar reduction and wider reformulation programme on behalf of the Government, as set out in the three chapters of the child obesity plan and the 2019 prevention Green Paper Advancing our Health: Prevention in the 2020s. In addition, the Government provide healthy eating advice through the Eatwell Guide, social marketing campaigns and food procurement and catering guidance.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

I thank the Minister for his Answer, but I am disappointed that he did not use the term “ultra-processed foods” in it, which represent 57% of the calories in the British diet. In the past couple of years, we have seen three studies which I shall quote from briefly. The first is from the US, which said that

“Ultra-processed foods cause excess calorie intake and weight gain.”


A French study states

“a 10% increase in intake results in a 14% increase in death,”

and a UK study says that

“a 10% increase in intake results in an 18% risk of increase in obesity in men.”

This is a relatively new area of science, but do the Government not understand that we have to acknowledge that these ultra-palatable foods that are designed not to satisfy have to be part of what the Prime Minister has said is going to be a new focus on tackling obesity?

[Lord Bethell [V]]

My Lords, the noble Baroness has made her point well. When the pandemic began, the national food strategy team were investigating the health risks associated with a diet heavy in ultra-processed foods. The team is in the process of restarting its work and will return to the question of ultra-processed foods in its final report, which it currently plans to publish over the winter.

Exercise Cygnus

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 9th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell [V]]

The noble Baroness is in danger of misrepresenting the situation. The whole point of running a trial such as operation Cygnus is to probe the system and to find weaknesses. That it identified areas for improvement is entirely appropriate and is exactly why we run such projects. As I have explained, the exercise identified key areas where developments were made, and those developments helped us in our preparations for Covid.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that Exercise Cygnus warned, and Covid-19 has demonstrated, that we were profoundly unprepared for the pandemic shock that we knew was coming? Does he agree that it demonstrates that a focus on so-called efficiency—that is, profit maximisation for contractors and cost minimisation for Governments under austerity—is incompatible with resilience? The whole model of outsourcing and privatisation is not fit for the 21st-century age of shocks.

[Lord Bethell [V]]

The noble Baroness will not be at all surprised to learn that I do not agree with her analysis in any way. Operation Cygnus demonstrates that we did have robust systems in a great many areas and I am grateful to it for identifying some areas that we went on to improve. As for working with the private sector, I bear testimony to its enormous contribution to our Covid response. I do not agree with her characterisation of the profit motive.

Covid-19: Response

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The arrangements for local lockdowns are not fully in place. In fact, the policy around them is in development and a full decision has not been made on what arrangements we will make for lockdowns. The joint biosecurity centre will be absolutely central to those arrangements. It is the hub into which the intelligence on prevalence and infectiousness comes and which pushes that information out into the local area to help advise directors of public health, local authorities and other local services on local arrangements. I believe that it will develop the expertise and the co-ordination role which the noble Lord asks about.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, in answering the question of the noble Lord, Lord Turnberg, the Minister said that a test is available to anyone who wants one, and that this is being advertised on the M4. I am looking right now at the nhs.uk website page headed “Ask for a test to check if you have coronavirus”. Highlighted on that page, it says:

“Please help the NHS by only asking for tests for people who have coronavirus symptoms now.”


Can the Minister explain that? Also on that page, it lists the three symptoms for which it suggests we should have a test. Yet when I go to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website—the US body—it lists 11 lots of symptoms, including: fatigue; muscle ache; headache; sore throat; congestion; nausea or vomiting; and diarrhoea. Have the Government considered expanding the list of symptoms, and if they have not, why not?

[Lord Bethell]

If I was not clear, I hope the noble Baroness will forgive me. The test is open to anyone in the population. It is not restricted to key workers or those who are over five, as it once was. However, the clinical advice is that you should seek a test only if you show symptoms, partly because the test will not necessarily work if you do not have symptoms. That remains the case.

With regard to expanding the list of symptoms, we changed the symptoms about two weeks ago. We have done a huge amount of work to understand the best way of recommending symptoms. This is an amazingly complicated area. A lay person like me would think it was not too difficult to define symptoms for an important disease, but actually it is an extremely contested area. We have broadened it, we keep it under review, and if what we have done is not working well enough, we will update it again.

Covid-19: Response

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness raised the data protection impact statement, which I have read. I did not find it confusing; I thought it was extremely straightforward and it has been welcomed by a large number of the privacy groups I have spoken to.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

A few minutes ago, responding to the Front-Bench questions the Minister said that the heart of the Government’s message was that

“people who have symptoms must isolate themselves”.

How does the Minister square this with what he said to me last Thursday? He said:

“No one working in the NHS should go to work if they feel ill or have a temperature”


but that this

“is not necessarily true for people who work in normal workplaces.”—[Official Report, 14/5/20; col. 806.]

We were of course at that point talking about care homes. If we look at the Government’s launch last Tuesday for the document Our Plan to Rebuild, this says:

“If a negative test is returned, then isolation is no longer required.”


If the Government’s position has changed, should this not be made clear to the public?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness undoubtedly knows that anyone who is ill with anything whatever should not go to a hospital. Being ill is not the same as having the symptoms of Covid-19. Anyone who has the symptoms of Covid-19 should isolate immediately.

Care Homes: Covid-19 Testing

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Thursday 14th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

I completely acknowledge that one of the most horrible aspects of this disease is that it targets those who are most vulnerable and live closely to each other. Care homes are therefore a priority. I also acknowledge that we started with a very low base of diagnostic testing and have had to work extremely hard to build that up. But now that that capacity is there, we are focusing it on care homes and using innovative methods to get those tests directly to people. We could not be working harder to get the right people tested in the care home sector.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

NHS England recommends to staff that if they have symptoms after a negative coronavirus swab test they do not return to work, given the estimates of false negatives of up to 30%. But the Government’s official advice to someone with a negative test, in Our Plan to Rebuild, says:

“If a negative test is returned, then isolation is no longer required.”


What is the Minister’s advice to care home workers after a negative coronavirus swab test?

[Lord Bethell]

No one working in the NHS should go to work if they feel ill or have a temperature. That is true for anyone working on the front line, but it is not necessarily true for people who work in normal workplaces.

Coronavirus Bill

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 25th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness’s concerns are noted.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle]

My Lords, before I get to the procedural part I will refer the Minister to some of his own words. He referred to the Government’s desire to ensure that everyone should have safe, high-quality medical care. In this area in particular, given that the option has been given to provide alternatives, that is something that the Government will be judged against, and I hope that he will be able to live up to his promise. However, it is with a heavy heart that I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Monday 16th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord is entirely right to ask about this. I am pleased to say that, thanks in part to the advocacy by the deaf community, a signing translator was provided for the briefing from No. 10 Downing Street earlier today. That is a sign that we are listening to those who advocate on behalf of these groups. However, I have to be honest with the Chamber: there are a large number of groups who deserve special treatment, and although we are moving as fast as we can in order to provide the best possible care and service that we can, I cannot pretend that there are going to be tailored packages for each and every vulnerable group in the land. We are just going to have to pull together and do the best that we can under extremely difficult circumstances.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I applaud the fact that the Statement focused on the need to protect the most vulnerable, but many people are hugely financially vulnerable. Does the Minister agree that we need national solidarity to ensure that no one needs to fear losing their roof over their head, having their gas or electricity cut off or not being able to buy the food that they need? Will the proposed Bill include: an end to all benefits sanctions, as the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, referred to; a suspension of all evictions; an end to the five-week delay for housing benefit; and ensuring that no one’s utility is cut off because they cannot pay the bill? The Minister made particular reference to the homeless. Will provision be made if they need to isolate? If they are ill, will they have safe and appropriate provision? Asylum seekers are people in our community who are very vulnerable with little money. They could contribute if allowed to work. I think we have just seen the first case of the virus in a prison. Will the Bill include special provision to make sure that prisons are safe places in the coronavirus epidemic?

[Lord Bethell]

On prisons, which are clearly an area of grave concern, I reassure the Chamber that guidelines were published earlier today for the management of prison populations and the introduction of cohorting in order to divide those with the virus from the rest of the prison population. On the other questions, I reassure the House that we are alive to the desperate circumstances that some people find themselves in. The financial arrangements being put behind the handling of coronavirus will be generous, and we will not stop supporting those who we love and care for.

Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 3rd March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right to emphasise the question of diagnosis. I know from my own experience that the delays that people experience create huge anxiety and prevent them making the important decisions they need to make for themselves and their families about how to do the right thing—self-isolating if necessary and making provisions for their other family members. A ferocious race is under way at the moment. The Government have instructed six private companies, which are all seeking to build exactly what the noble Baroness describes: a bedside testing kit that can be rolled out across the country to provide swift, on-the-spot diagnosis. We are hopeful that that will come shortly. On handwashing, I too have travelled in Africa and know exactly the kinds of provisions she talks about. The advice from the CMO is that we are not there yet but nothing is off the table.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, referred to the Telegraph story about the conflict within the Government regarding the EWRS scheme. That same story referred to the Health Secretary wishing to travel to meet his European counterparts and not being allowed to by Downing Street. Can the Minister reassure your Lordships’ House that any necessary visit to Europe by a Minister or an official will be allowed to go ahead? As the Minister rightly said, we are in the EWRS until the end of this year. However, I asked a Written Question last week, to which I have not yet had a response, on the European Medicines Agency rapid approval and procurement system for vaccines and drugs. As I understand it, we are not in that system now that we are not part of the EU. Switzerland is also not in that system but has asked for special access. Have we asked or will we ask for special access?

[Lord Bethell]

I reassure the noble Baroness and the House that we are clearly in the midst of a global pandemic, and nothing will stand in the way of the Government’s best efforts to work with our international partners, in Europe, through the WHO and abroad, to find a proper solution to this challenge.

Wuhan Coronavirus

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Bethell

Wednesday 26th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

My noble friend asks a very reasonable question. It raises the issue of heat tests at airports—which I know that he did not ask about—which is a subject of concern. Certainly, temperature tests provide a large number of false positives, and that is why they have not been applied at British airports. However, the saliva tests being used in clinical conditions at the moment are thought to be very reliable indeed, and the number of false positives is very low.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I echo the thanks from all sides of the House to the medical and administrative staff. We need to acknowledge that at the moment, most of them are not, of course, at risk; but it is very stressful just thinking that you might be, and that stress needs to be acknowledged. The Statement referred to working closely with the WHO, the G7 and the wider international community. There was no specific reference to working closely with the EU regime of communicable disease control, which is co-ordinated by the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control in Stockholm. That oversees the early warning and response system and the emergency mechanism for the approval of pandemic medicines by the European Medicines Agency.

My understanding is that we are still part of the EWRS system, but we do not have any say in the decision-making. At the end of this year, when the transition period ends, we will fall out of that system unless special arrangements are made. I understand that Switzerland, which is not part of the medical countermeasures rapid approval procedure for testing, treatment and vaccines, has applied for special access to that system. Have we also applied for special access to it? How are we working with our EU neighbours, who have a very sophisticated system? What will the situation be in less than a year’s time?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness asks a detailed question on an important part of our response. British scientists have done an enormous amount to investigate an antidote to the virus; £20 million has been put into research into those arrangements. We are absolutely at the forefront of trying to find some kind of antidote. The regulatory arrangements for that are not in my brief, so I cannot answer her question directly. I reassure the House that British scientists are absolutely working hard; they are well resourced, and any regulatory arrangements that are needed to find the right medicines for this virus will be put into place.