(1 week, 1 day ago)
Grand CommitteeMy Lords, I thank the Minister for her clear and comprehensive introduction to this statutory instrument, and I express Green Party support for it. I echo the comments of the Minister in the House of Commons, who said that,
“after clean water, vaccination is the most effective public health intervention for saving lives and promoting good health”.—[Official Report, Commons, Second Delegated Legislation Committee, 3/3/26; col. 8.]
We need to say that and keep saying it, particularly in the current era. I am glad that, through this SI, the Government are making sure that we prepare ourselves for the next pandemic, because we know there will be one. I shall speak briefly about the vaccination situation and some of the changes relating to vaccination that occurred in our health system during the Covid pandemic. I have a question for the Minister; if she cannot answer it now, I will entirely understand and appreciate a reply in writing.
In her introduction, the Minister said that we are no longer in a Covid pandemic, but we are still seeing the extensive spread of the Covid disease. I declare an interest as someone who has the financial wherewithal and ability to have had—and will continue to have—regular vaccinations against Covid, although I am not in one of the Government’s target groups. I want to address this because we saw the development of a great deal more private medicine during the pandemic. Private clinics were set up, running Covid tests and offering vaccinations. We have seen a profound change in the ecology of the vaccination system.
In the context of this SI, I have looked at NHS travel vaccines. Typically, the NHS offers vaccination against hepatitis A, typhoid fever, diphtheria, tetanus and polio, if not previously received, and cholera. These are available for certain destinations, but a number of travel vaccines are not covered by the NHS, including for yellow fever, hepatitis B, Japanese encephalitis, rabies and meningitis ACWY. Many noble Lords will have seen the recent tragic case of travel-acquired rabies—the most hideous disease—acquired from the lick of a puppy on a beach, I believe.
My question is about vaccination as we move increasingly into an ecology where some people are able to afford to protect themselves against a wide range of risks, for travelling but also even if they are not travelling. I randomly selected a provider and saw that there is a huge range in prices. Vaccination against dengue fever and Japanese encephalitis costs £125 for each, and for typhoid it costs £40. I wonder whether the Government are taking into consideration the availability of these crucial health measures. Some people are able to afford a broad range of protection but some may not be able to afford or have access to protections that could keep them healthy and, eventually, save the NHS a great deal of money.
Through this SI, we are making sure that we are able to react quickly in crisis situations, but it would be interesting and important to hear from the Minister about whether we are looking at the broader ecology of all this. What are we are doing for public health in the new, increasingly privatised medical arrangements that we are seeing?
The Earl of Effingham (Con)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing these regulations. Vaccination remains one of the most effective public health interventions available to us all. The flexibilities introduced during the pandemic enabled the rapid deployment of both Covid-19 and influenza vaccines at scale. It is understandable that the Government now seek to make certain arrangements permanent and extend them to other infectious diseases.
His Majesty’s loyal Opposition support a vaccination system that is resilient, agile and capable of responding to future public health requirements. Expanding the role of community pharmacies and broadening the vaccinator workforce may well assist in that aim, provided that safeguards are robust. However, it would be wrong to wave this past without scrutiny, as temporary powers become permanent.
The introduction of a permanent vaccine group direction mechanism is a significant change. Flexibility must be matched by clarity. If a patient experiences a serious adverse reaction following vaccination under a vaccine group direction, where does the ultimate legal and clinical responsibility lie? Is it with the authorising body, the supervising clinician, the employer or the individual vaccinator? It would be helpful to have that clearly set out by the Government.
On workforce scope, the regulations expand the occupational health vaccinator provisions and align them with professions able to operate under a patient group direction. Can the Minister clarify the criteria used to determine inclusion? Were decisions based on professional registration, competence in administrating injectable medicines, workforce capacity or other considerations? I am sure all noble Lords agree that consistency and safety are paramount.
On public confidence and uptake, greater flexibility does not automatically mean higher vaccination rates, so how will the Government ensure that these changes actually translate into improved uptake among eligible and vulnerable groups? What benchmark will the Government use to evaluate the success of the measures?
A full impact assessment has not been produced. Although the stated impact may be minimal, these are system-wide changes. Reporting under the Medicines and Medical Devices Act occurs on a two-year cycle. Does the Minister consider that sufficient, or will interim data on safety, workforce, deployment and uptake be made available?
These are important questions to answer, and His Majesty’s loyal Opposition do indeed support a framework that is safe, proportionate and future-proofed, but one which has been properly stress-tested.
(1 year, 2 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, I thank the Minister and all noble Lords who have taken part in this extremely rich debate, both those who have brought their scientific expertise to the Chamber, and those who have concentrated hard while listening to that expertise. I doubt your Lordships’ House has seen a debate with more concentration of scientific evidence, but I posit that we need many more debates containing this level of science.
I am aware of all the people waiting for the next debate, but there are a couple of points really worth drawing out. The key question that has arisen is whether there is currently enough regulation, and here it is useful to triangulate three of the contributions from noble Lords.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Anelay and Lady Sugg, and the noble Earl, Lord Effingham, all raised concerns about more regulation. I am very glad that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, was here, because his contribution indicated that this potentially marks a shift from the Government drawing up lots of detailed rules, which will always be lagging behind, to putting the responsibility on manufacturers to say, “Don’t mess things up”. That surely should be where the responsibility lies, and it would take away a lot of the complexities that the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, referred to.
Here, it is useful to triangulate to the speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Freeman, which demonstrated clearly that the regulators are not in any way keeping up. The Minister suggested that there might be duplication and that the existing position is well regulated and understood. The speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Freeman, demonstrated otherwise and that the regulations are not fit for purpose. That also was also reflected in the speech of the noble Earl, Lord Effingham, so triangulating those speeches is very useful.
I will deal briefly with some of the specific points made. I particularly thank the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, for raising concerns about toxicity to human bodies, which is not adequately covered. I have not gone into that area because it is supposedly already regulated, although it clearly is not, as the noble Baroness indicated. The noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, will be pleased to know that I will be hosting two events in the next two months, with academics from the University of Exeter, on bacteriophages. Bacteriophages as an alternative to antibiotic use are certainly part of the story of how we are going to tackle the problem of AMR, but I would posit that they are unlikely to be a total solution.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Sugg and Lady Brinton, and others, raised the issue of period products. The noble Baroness, Lady Sugg, pointed out that silver damages the lactobacillus—the healthy bacteria. I hope that noble Lords will join me in supporting the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill. As the noble Baroness said, people cannot know what they are buying now. That cannot be right, and we should be able to tackle that right now through that Bill.
The noble Earl, Lord Effingham, asked whether the level 5 unlimited fine is the right level. The noble Lord, Lord Browne, said that once we let the AMR genie out of the bottle, we cannot put it back. If a manufacturer that is a giant multinational company is responsible for letting loose a resistance gene that, essentially, gives rise to an AMR pandemic, a level 5 unlimited fine—which a court will of course consider with reference to the size of the company concerned—is the appropriate level.
I am aware of time, so I will offer some final thoughts. I really welcome the noble Lord, Lord Leong, saying that he was not dismissing the concerns that I brought forward today. I very much welcome the offer of further interaction, following up on the suggestion of the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, of a round table, and I look forward to further such discussion in considering the Production Regulation and Metrology Bill.
Finally, I am really glad that the Minister is going to go home and check his cupboards. I would suggest that this provides evidence that future action is needed.
The Earl of Effingham (Con)
My Lords, if I might briefly clarify, the unlimited fine I was referring to is obviously appropriate for large organisations, which have the ability to take that fine, but as was reiterated by the Minister, it is the SMEs we want to help. For them, an unlimited fine could make the difference between entering the market and not, which is why we need to take a measured approach.