China Espionage: Government Security Response
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Alton of Liverpool(1 month ago)
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Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, I will try not to outlive the welcome that the Minister extended to me and the nice words expressed by so many colleagues from all sides of the House. I hope that she will forgive me if I press her further on the enhanced tier of the foreign influence registration scheme and the point about academics that was raised earlier.
It comes as no surprise to those seven parliamentarians —of whom I am one—who have been sanctioned by the Chinese Communist Party to hear warnings about CCP operatives spying and laying the groundwork for subversive long-term relationships with parliamentarians. But those sanctions are nothing compared with the imprisonment of hundreds of pro-democracy advocates, such as Jimmy Lai in Hong Kong, or the atrocities committed against Uyghur Muslims. They are nothing compared with the evidence that the Joint Committee on Human Rights, which I have the privilege to chair, received during our inquiry into transnational repression and published in our report of 30 July. For instance, we cited the bounties of 1 million Hong Kong dollars on the heads of UK residents, including the courageous 20 year-old Chloe Cheung.
I have raised the intimidation of academics, such as Professor Michelle Shipworth, who was referred to by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Keen, as well as the case of Professor Laura Murphy, which was in the newspapers recently. Laura Murphy works at Sheffield Hallam University, and she gave evidence to our Joint Committee on Human Rights in our inquiry on supply chain transparency and modern-day slavery. Both of those academics have experienced intimidation as a consequence. When the Minister has her meeting with university vice-chancellors, I hope she will emphasise the dangers of becoming far too dependent on money pouring into our universities, which then starts to call the tune.
During our hearings, we received a large amount of evidence recommending the designation of China under the enhanced tier of the foreign influence registration scheme. We found:
“China conducts the most comprehensive TNR”—
transnational repression—
“campaign of any foreign state operating in the UK. Its omission from the enhanced tier risks undermining the credibility and coherence of FIRS”.
We recommend that
“the Government specify China under the enhanced tier of FIRS”.
In the light of these most recent revelations, I hope that the Minister will go back and talk to the honourable Dan Jarvis, who gave evidence to the Joint Committee, to try to speed up that consideration. It is high time that we did so, and it is high time that we reduced our dependency and enhanced our resilience.
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
To reassure the noble Lord, I am still delighted that he is back. He raised some very important points. I cannot go any further at this point on the enhanced tier of the FIRS, but the noble Lord will be very aware that, before I joined the Government, I ran Index on Censorship, so the issues related to Jimmy Lai—I have met Sebastien Lai—and the issues about Xinjiang and transnational repression are ones that I campaigned on for many years.
I will be clear on some of the specifics that have been raised. I have to be very careful when discussing Sheffield Hallam, because ongoing legal processes are happening there. I recognise the admirable and tireless work of my noble friend Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, whose name is on the centre at the heart of this. Her work to progress social justice and human rights, including as a patron of the Centre for International Justice at Sheffield Hallam University, is at the heart of the allegations. Any attempt by a foreign state to intimidate and coerce universities to limit free speech and academic freedoms in the UK will not be tolerated. The Government have made this clear to Beijing after learning of the case of Sheffield Hallam and other recent cases. The new Office for Students guidance makes it explicitly clear that universities should not tolerate attempts by foreign states to suppress academic freedom.
The noble Lord knows better than I about some of the actions we have taken in tackling transnational aggression in the UK and the ongoing support that we are giving to Jimmy Lai and the Lai family. We will continue to do so. The genuine anguish that that family is currently experiencing because of this case is simply unacceptable. I reassure the noble Lord that even while he was off, we continued to do our work, and my right honourable friend Foreign Secretary raised the case of Jimmy Lai with her counterpart on 6 November. I will write to him on the other points he raised.
Government Supply Chains: Cotton
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Alton of Liverpool
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for the Question, for the work he has done and for raising this on several occasions. Of course we need to use new technology, but I want to be clear that the Government spend £385 billion across the public service every year. My noble friend is absolutely right about being able to assess where all cotton comes from; we will be able to determine where it came from, but not who cut it, so it will get us only so far. We need to make sure that the right training is in place for our buyers and our suppliers to make sure that we have a supply chain that is free from modern-day slavery.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for the Government’s engagement on the all-party amendment dealing with solar panels being imported from Xinjiang. I welcome the amendment that was tabled overnight in lieu and the engagement—especially of her noble friend, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath—in making that possible.
Is the Minister aware that 800 pages of submissions have already been received by the Joint Committee on Human Rights in its inquiry into modern-day slavery in supply chains? Will she agree to engage with the committee as it comes forward with recommendations? Does she agree that there should be an explicit provision in UK law prohibiting the import of slave-made goods, using the kind of technology that the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, referred to, because there is not such a prohibition in our law now?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I want to put on record my personal thanks for the work that has been done by the noble Lord, Lord Alton. Before I joined the Government, I ran the Index on Censorship and worked very closely with Rahima Mahmut on many of these issues. I am aware of all the work the noble Lord has done. Unsurprisingly, I am also very grateful for the timing of the amendment on solar panels, which was tabled overnight. I thank the noble Lord for all the work he did to make this Question slightly more straightforward for me.
On the current ongoing inquiry, we look forward to engaging directly with the noble Lord and I hope to be able to discuss those matters with him personally. As he will be aware, we have taken huge strides forward in recent years with the Modern Slavery Act and Procurement Act. I look forward to working with him as we take even more strides forward.
Northern Ireland: Legacy of the Troubles
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Alton of Liverpool
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I thank my noble friend for her support and for the question. We are clear that the remedial order tabled yesterday is a first step in delivering on our manifesto commitment but, more importantly, our promise to the people of Northern Ireland to deliver a pathway through on legacy related to the Troubles. Our next step will be to reform ICRIR to build confidence, which will require ongoing engagement with everyone in your Lordships’ House.
Last month, I was in Northern Ireland and met a youth group who were aged 18 to 25. They were exploring the Good Friday agreement and, for them, it was history; for them, it was the lived experience of every day in Northern Ireland that they contend with. I am delighted and so privileged to say that so many people in your Lordships’ House worked together to deliver a society where, for them, the Troubles were history. But we now need to make sure that we work with the families who were touched by the Troubles—the thousand cases—so that the next generation is not affected by intergenerational trauma and have answers about what happened to their families.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, the whole House will be in the debt of the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, for the way in which she has repeated the Statement. She is, palpably and demonstrably, personally invested in this process, and everyone owes her a debt of thanks. She will know that the primary responsibility for oversight of remedial orders falls to the Joint Committee on Human Rights. At its meeting yesterday, it decided that it would look at this remedial order urgently, from a human rights perspective. It would help the committee if the noble Baroness could provide clarity on when she expects the Supreme Court to hear the Dillon appeal. If she does not have that information, will she be good enough to try to establish that, so that we have some idea of what the process will be and how long it will take?
Given the impact on grieving families—which, as she said, was raised yesterday in a very moving way in another place—and the effect of justice delayed inevitably being justice denied, can we be assured not just that it will happen “in due course” but that the primary legislation will be in this Session of Parliament? Given that the Government have to deal, 20 years later, with outstanding matters such as the McKerr group of ECHR judgments, will the noble Baroness undertake that they too will be dealt with in the primary legislation, when it is brought forward? Twenty years is a long time to wait to resolve issues raised by the European court.
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I thank the noble Lord. I will write to him on matters pertaining to the Dillon appeal and the Supreme Court. Many things are in my gift, but that is not one, in terms of timing. On when the legislation will come forward, noble Lords will be aware of how busy the legislative agenda in this House is right now, and with forthcoming legislation. I assure noble Lords that we are making every effort, although the timing is not in my gift. We will bring forward primary legislation as soon as parliamentary time allows and I promise that appropriate representations are being made.
On what will be included in the primary legislation, we want to make sure that it is genuinely effective and has the confidence of the families, so of course we will work to try to address as many issues as we can. I look forward to engaging with the noble Lord on every specific case, if he would like to have those conversations.