Clonoe Inquest
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Baroness O'Loan
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I thank the noble Lord for his service as a politician in Northern Ireland during the Troubles and for what he continues to do in support of delivering justice for those who were touched by the Troubles, and of protecting service personnel. The noble Lord knows that I am an honorary captain in the Royal Navy and consider myself part of the military family. I definitely do not support a rewriting of the past and neither do this Government. I will always stand with our Armed Forces. The MoD is currently reflecting on the coroner’s verdict and it will come forward in due course.
On protecting veterans, they are a core part of the stakeholder community that we are engaging with in delivering the primary legislation, which should be forthcoming. I am part of that engagement process and was in Northern Ireland last week to engage. We will endeavour to do everything, working with them and the new Northern Ireland Armed Forces commissioner, to make sure that they have the appropriate support where needed.
Lord Robathan (Con)
I think we have just had one of them.
The current situation is that soldiers will not be willing to serve. Does the Minister understand that? We must get protection from the Government for soldiers—who are sent out by this place, this Parliament, to detect what is going on—unless they have done something appallingly wrong, which they have not on this occasion.
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, we are very clear about the retention and recruitment challenges that the Armed Forces have had. We saw that during the previous Administration, and the noble Lord and I have sat in many debates discussing it. Our Armed Forces run towards bombs. That is what they did in the Troubles: they put themselves between terrorists and civilians and we will be forever grateful for their service. We will work with veterans’ communities to ensure that the primary legislation, when we bring it forward, reflects their needs as well as those of every other part of the community.
Baroness O'Loan (CB)
My Lords, I alert the noble Lord, Lord Robathan, to the fact that the noble Lord, Lord McCrea, is a DUP Peer.
I speak as a victim of the IRA and condemn unequivocally every atrocity that happened everywhere. As the Minister will agree, the security forces had a well-planned, intelligence-led operation here. The evidence is that 20 minutes after the attack by these IRA men, they returned to the car park where the Army was waiting for them. The coroner says that the Army unleashed 570 bullets. No bullets were fired by these IRA men. I do not in any way condone what they did, but two of them were running away as they were shot in the back and they were then shot in the face by the soldiers as they lay injured. Does the Minister agree that it is fundamentally important that, wherever they are in the world, our Armed Forces behave within the rule of law and that, if we are to build a safe and stable future for Northern Ireland, it must be on the basis of the rule of law?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I stand in awe of everything that the many people in this Chamber who have been affected by terrorism, like her, continue to do to build peace.
On our Armed Forces operating within the rule of law, I am very proud of how they operate. That is not to say that there are not occasions, and the specific findings of this coroner have raised concerns on both sides of the community. The MoD is considering what they mean.
Northern Ireland: Legacy of the Troubles
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Baroness O'Loan
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend and put on record my personal thanks for the support that he has given me since I took on these responsibilities, as well as for the work that he has done for a long time in working with veterans groups and attempting to tackle some of the issues associated with legacy. I thoroughly agree with him that Operation Kenova could provide a template for going forward and the Secretary of State is committed to looking at how that worked. While protecting national security, it does provide a potential way forward. With regards to the reform of ICRIR, right now our intention is to reform it to build confidence. That is at the heart of everything we will seek to do with the primary legislation, and we can do that only with ongoing engagement.
The reality is that the victims of the Troubles are still in pain. We saw some of that in the other House yesterday; the heartbreak is real and tangible. It is not for me to decide what will work in this area to give them confidence. Candidly, it is not for many of us to determine what happens next. We need to talk to and engage with them to make sure that they have confidence in processes that they will be working with every day, so that they can get a level of peace. It is for them that we are doing this work.
Baroness O'Loan (CB)
My Lords, I thank the Minister and the Secretary of State for the Statement. I welcome very much the reinstatement of civil proceedings, the removal of immunity and the commitment to restore inquests. I look forward to ongoing engagement on these issues. I have to declare my interest as a member of the international steering group of Operation Kenova, which has been repeatedly referenced today.
Is the Minister aware that the court’s findings on the Northern Ireland Troubles Act derive from the very limited number of cases which Mr Justice Colton agreed to accept for judicial review? There were in fact 20 applications for judicial review and the majority were turned down. The consequence of that, as I am sure the Minister is aware, is that many issues were not adjudicated on and the Court of Appeal could adjudicate only on matters in the High Court, so there were very limited outcomes from that process. Can the Minister provide further clarity about what is meant by repeal and replacement of the Act?
The exceptional powers granted to the Secretary of State and the ongoing situation in which his decision-making will inevitably be informed by the intelligence services create a massive problem of trust. Is the Minister aware of the difficulties experienced by Kenova and the inappropriate classification of material as secret and not to be disclosed to families, which has occurred as a repeated feature in Northern Ireland, and can she ensure that restrictions on access to information are removed and that the assurances of support to veterans will apply equally to victims?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I thank the noble Baroness for her constructive engagement on this issue and for how generous she has truly been with her time with me and the Secretary of State. I look forward to working with her in the months ahead as we develop next steps; her voice will be incredibly important.
With regard to the specifics, I am of course aware of the detail of current legal cases and why some issues were raised and others were not. Bringing forward primary legislation means that we get to look at some of the other issues in the round, and I look forward to that process. That will also relate to disclosure and national security, and we will have those conversations, because for some that will be at the crux. I reassure the noble Baroness that we seek to do nothing to the people of Northern Ireland on the issue of legacy; we want to do this with the people of Northern Ireland, to deliver for them and for victims. That is the approach this Government will be taking as we develop the primary legislation.
Northern Ireland
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Baroness O'Loan(2 months, 4 weeks ago)
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Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, I live in a place where 73% voted to leave. This Government have been very clear on our approach to Brexit and its clear impact on Northern Ireland. We need to make Brexit work for everybody, including young people, and find the benefits of Brexit. I look forward to further discussions in due course.
Baroness O'Loan (CB)
My Lords, in the interests of strengthening Northern Ireland’s position in the United Kingdom and restoring trust in the rule of law, can the Minister tell us when His Majesty’s Government intend to table legislation to repeal the Northern Ireland Troubles Act and to restore the rights to inquests, civil actions and the possibility of the prosecution of alleged murderers, which were removed under the Act but are enjoyed by everyone else in the United Kingdom?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I thank the noble Baroness for the work she has done in this area and for meeting me to discuss next steps. The Northern Ireland Office is working every day on this issue to make sure that there is genuine consultation for what will happen next. I look forward to updating the House and working with noble Lords across the House as we move forward to repeal and replace previous legislation and to make sure that, as we explore the legacy of the Troubles, we deliver for the people who were affected.