Use of the Chamber (United Kingdom Youth Parliament)

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Tuesday 20th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Heath]

May I let the hon. Gentleman into a secret? If the House agrees on an issue, we do not need to take up debating time. If the House agreed on a matter, it would be sensible not to schedule a debate on the Order Paper, because we could use the time for more important things, such as those statements that hon. Members have said they want to hear in the Chamber. We could ensure that Ministers come here to explain their policies, and have more time for legislation, rather than debating matters on which the whole House agrees. But it would appear that there are some in the House who do not agree, which is why we are happy to provide time for the debate this evening.

Last time we debated this matter, I was on the Opposition Benches and supporting the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley)—no, it was not her; it was the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant).

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

It was me.

[Mr Heath]

I beg the hon. Lady’s pardon. It was her who put forward the motion. I said then that if we were to decide in the future that the first occasion had been a great success in building confidence in democracy, and an understanding of democracy, among the young in this country, we might repeat the experience. I hope that hon. Members who were in the House during the previous Parliament and who actually saw the debate—I attended the whole of it—would agree that those tests were met, and that the experience should be repeated. I hope that new Members in the House, who worked hard to ensure they could take their seats, will feel it right to encourage young people to express themselves and take part in the process of politics, and I can think of no better way of doing so than this particular suggestion.

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[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The question of whether young people engage in politics should concern Members because of its potential impact on the fabric of democracy in future years. Labour Members are very proud that in March 2009, the Government set the very good precedent of tabling a motion to allow the UK Youth Parliament to sit in the Chamber at a time when the House was not sitting.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

The hon. Lady has made the point that the Government established a precedent. However, in our last debate on the subject it was made clear to the House that it would not be a precedent: that it would be a one-off for the annual meeting of the UK Youth Parliament on its 10th anniversary. Is this not the slippery slope that many of us feared?

[Barbara Keeley]

I would not call it a slippery slope, but I will come to the point that the hon. Gentleman has raised.

As some Members have observed, the meeting that took place last October was a great success. These Benches were packed with 300 young men and women, many from ethnically diverse backgrounds, and it was a fantastic debate. One of the young people described how she felt about it, saying:

“It is an outstanding example of how democracy among young people is alive and kicking. Tackling debate topics such as tuition fees, transport, crime, the economy AND lowering the voting age really shows that anyone who thinks young people aren’t interested in politics is extremely misinformed.”

We want to encourage young people to see democracy as important, and to see the House of Commons as relevant to their lives and to the future. It would be very odd for us not to continue to let young people use the Chamber when we are not using it—on a Friday, during a weekend, or when the House is in recess. It would be very odd indeed for us to say now, after all the success of the debate last October, that we were raising the drawbridge on the use of Parliament by young people. Instead, we should be opening the windows to the breath of fresh air that they will bring in.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that if, after the great success of last year’s experiment, we turned around and said, “No, we are not letting you in here again,” that would send entirely the wrong signals to the young people?

[Barbara Keeley]

It would indeed. Members are clearly concerned about the issues affecting young people. We regularly discuss in the Chamber the same issues that the young people discuss themselves, and it is important for us to hear their angles and views as well. The engagement of the UK Youth Parliament—whose members are themselves elected from all parts of the country, often on a bigger turnout than some Members here—is very important.

[Philip Davies]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Barbara Keeley]

I hope that I speak for all Labour Members when I say that we support the motion.

[Philip Davies]

Will the hon. Lady give way? Or has she finished her speech?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Has the hon. Lady finished her speech?

[Barbara Keeley]

Yes.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

In that case, given that the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) is on his feet, he has the Floor.

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a poor show when, although it is apparently so important for the Youth Parliament to sit in this Chamber, the main Opposition party can find only about two minutes’ worth of things to say about it. It clearly cannot be all that important to them if they have nothing to say in support of it.

[Barbara Keeley]

rose—

[Philip Davies]

The hon. Lady would not give way to me, but because I am of more generous character than she is, I will give way to her.

[Barbara Keeley]

I thank the hon. Gentleman.

It is easy for Labour Members, because we are unanimous on the subject. It is the backwoodsmen on the Government Benches who are raising all the objections.

[Philip Davies]

The hon. Lady talked—very briefly, I must say—about the views of young people, and the importance of their perception of the House of Commons and its relevance to them.

May I tell the hon. Lady something that she might want to bear in mind when considering what people think of the House of Commons? It comes back to something that my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) said in his earlier intervention, which was not dealt with particularly well. The hon. Lady started off by saying that the previous Labour Government set a precedent with last year’s debate.

[Barbara Keeley]

To clarify that, my point was that moving the motion was a precedent, not that the debate itself was a precedent.

[Philip Davies]

We are very grateful in this place that we have our Hansard reporters, and we can all read tomorrow what the hon. Lady actually said. We certainly heard that she said that it was a precedent.

The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) said that it was an experiment last time. However, if anyone wants to cast their eyes back on the account of last year’s debate, they will see that it was made abundantly clear by the Government and others who supported the principle that the debate was a one-off.

Therefore, the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) and those supporting her stance are saying that what the young people in the Youth Parliament should learn from the House of Commons is that we cannot believe a word anybody in this House says, because they say one thing one year and they then go and completely reject the solemn promises they made at that time. If that is the kind of message they want to give to young people, that is very interesting.

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[Barbara Keeley]

The debate is not about the Shipley youth council or the West Yorkshire youth council, but about the UK Youth Parliament. Young people want to meet young people from other parts of the country and to debate issues with them. If this was just a local matter, one could appreciate that they would feel the way that the hon. Gentleman suggests, but it is not; it is a UK-wide Youth Parliament.

[Philip Davies]

No one is arguing that the UK Youth Parliament should not have a national meeting, but that is not what is before the House. We are discussing where it should have its meeting. I am sure that the hon. Lady will concede that the Youth Parliament members could meet in Westminster Hall or the House of Lords. If her prime purpose is that they should meet, that is not an argument for why they should meet here.

--- Later in debate ---

[Philip Davies]

I am not sure whether to take that as a compliment or an insult, although knowing my hon. Friend as I do I shall take it as a compliment. He would not wish to suggest anything else.

The point that I am making is that the motion is wholly illogical. It makes absolutely no sense whatever, because all the justifications for allowing the Youth Parliament to sit here are justifications for allowing lots of other organisations to do the same. The hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South and the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark made the great point that one of the great features of the Youth Parliament debate last year was that so many people from ethnic minorities took part. If that is the rationale for allowing it to be here, presumably the hon. Lady will advocate that the Muslim Council of Britain should have its meetings here. If we want lots of people from ethnic minorities here, the council would be a prime candidate.

[Barbara Keeley]

In raising the point about ethnic diversity, the hon. Gentleman misses the point. The point is that the UK Youth Parliament, through its work and how it elects its members, is more diverse than this House. That is impressive.

[Philip Davies]

That may well be the case, but is the hon. Lady really suggesting that any organisation that happens to have a more diverse make-up than the House should therefore be entitled to have a debate here? That is the logic of her position. The make-up of the Youth Parliament may well be more diverse, but that is no argument for allowing it to have a debate in this Chamber.