Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Monday 9th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

I beg to move amendment 1, page 6, line 28, after “may”, insert “, on an application to the Ombudsman by a person within subsection (1A),”

This amendment clarifies the provision made in new section 340H(1) of the Armed Forces Act 2006 (inserted by clause 2 of the Bill) about the making of applications to the Service Complaints Ombudsman. See also amendment 5.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendments 2 to 6

Amendment 22, page 6, line 37 at end insert—

“() for the purposes of subsection (1)(c)—

“Undue delay” should be considered any length of time longer than one calendar year, or a length of time that the Ombudsman determines constitutes an undue delay in relation to a given complaint.”

This amendment defines “undue delay” for the purposes of paragraph (c) of new section 340H(1) of the Armed Forces Act 2006 (see Government amendment 4).

Government amendments 7 to 21

[Anna Soubry]

The amendments make the changes to the Bill agreed in Committee and ensure that they work correctly from a drafting point of view. I do not mean to insult or to criticise anyone, but we had to ensure that these amendments had the effect that the majority of the Committee wanted. I also want to make it clear that the Government accept the changes made in Committee and that nothing in these amendments seeks to row back on what the Committee agreed. I hope that hon. Members will accept that, because I have seen all the key players—I now see that my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) is sitting at the back. He might take offence at that, but I hope that he does not. We have done that quite deliberately so that everybody knows why the amendments have been proposed. They fill in significant gaps left by the amendments agreed in Committee and, in particular, ensure that the ombudsman can make recommendations following an investigation into a service complaint, giving her decisions the necessary teeth.

The amendments agreed in Committee reflect some of the recommendations made by the Defence Committee in its report on the Bill, which was published last October. I am grateful for the Defence Committee’s work on the Bill and it is clear that the changes agreed in Committee now have cross-party support, as they did in the Defence Committee. The Government have listened to the arguments made in Committee and by others on Second Reading and have accepted them. I therefore hope that the amendments will be supported across the House.

The Public Bill Committee agreed that the role of the ombudsman should be extended in three ways. The first was that the ombudsman should be allowed to look at the substance or merits of an individual complaint and not just whether it had been handled correctly by the services. In other words, she should be able to consider not just maladministration. The second was that the ombudsman should look for any maladministration that had occurred, not just that alleged by the complainant. If during the course of examining that complaint she comes across any other maladministration, she should be able to consider that.

Those are changes to the ombudsman’s remit, but it is important to emphasise a point that has sometimes been lost in our debates. The ombudsman will ordinarily become involved in individual complaints only once the consideration of them by the services has finished. It is important to reiterate that if an individual makes a complaint it should go through all the necessary stages and processes and if there is no finding in the complainant’s favour, meaning that he or she feels that the grievance has not been met—that they have not won, if you like—they can go to the ombudsman. If complaints are successfully dealt with by the services, there is no need for those complaints to go to the ombudsman. Most complaints are satisfactorily resolved, as one might imagine they would be in any complaints system.

It is important to make a point because the third change agreed in Committee is to allow the ombudsman to investigate allegations of undue delay, as I said to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) earlier, in three different respects: as part of a maladministration investigation, in relation to an ongoing “live” complaint, and pre-complaint. As I am sure you have worked out, Mr Speaker, I mean that when somebody has made a complaint that has got stuck and has not been got on with, even though it has not been completed, that person can go to the ombudsman. Even before a complaint has got into the system, if it is thought that there has been some prevarication or undue delay, the complainant can go to the ombudsman to unstick whatever is gluing things up.

It is in everyone’s interests to have a complaints process in which roles and powers are clear so that there is no confusion. It is also important that the wishes of the individual remain at the heart of the process, given that this is an individual’s grievance procedure. It is about that individual and his or her grievance. It remains the case that the services will in every case still be left to decide how to respond to any findings or recommendations made by the ombudsman, even in relation to the extended remit that the ombudsman will now have.

We have dealt with the amendments made in Committee with those points firmly in mind and the Government’s amendments today make the necessary additional changes to the rest of the Bill’s provisions, which were left untouched by the amendments in Committee, so that there can be no doubt about the precise scope of the ombudsman’s powers. That is why proposed new section 340H(1), as amended by our amendments, will set out in good strong terms that the ombudsman can investigate the following: a service complaint when that complaint has completed the internal system, making it clear that the ombudsman can look into the merits of a complaint; an allegation of a mishandling of service complaints, including undue delay, when that complaint has completed the internal system, which deals with maladministration; and allegations that a service complaint has been unduly delayed before the complaint has completed the internal system or, as I have explained, that there was undue delay before a service complaint was made.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

I thank the members of the Public Bill Committee, who did an excellent job of ensuring that the issues covered by the Bill were thoroughly looked at. The service complaints system is not one of which many Members of this House have first-hand experience. It is therefore to the credit of the members of the Committee that they quickly grasped the key issues behind the Bill. I am very grateful for the contributions that were made from both sides.

In particular, I thank the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) for her involvement in these issues over a number of years. She played a key role in Committee and our debates this afternoon, and I know she feels strongly about the issues she raises. I commend her for her tenacity and for the passion with which she makes her case. I am delighted that she will continue to pursue all those matters and to scrutinise the Bill should it have the good fortune of reaching the statute book. She will not give up on her campaign to ensure that things are done properly by all those who serve in our armed forces, and the Bill is undoubtedly better because of her involvement.

I also thank the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones). There is some rivalry between us, because we went to opposing schools—although not at the same time; he is much younger than I am. I like to think that that is the reason for some of our rivalry in our discourse in the House and Committee. He has approached these matters in a constructive and knowledgeable way. I wish to emphasise that, because he speaks on the basis of knowledge having served as a Defence Minister, and he therefore knows what he is talking about even if we do not always agree. He has done much to ensure that the Bill has been properly scrutinised, which is important in these proceedings.

I thank the Defence Committee and its Chair, my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart). He is no longer in his place, but I am sure he is about somewhere and hopefully he will read this debate. The Committee produced an excellent and detailed report on the Bill last year, which has done much to focus our debates on the most significant issues. I am delighted that my hon. Friend has made it clear that his Committee will continue to do the job that it has been doing over a number of years, to ensure that we have a good, fair, robust complaints system in the way we have identified. In that respect we are absolutely in agreement.

The Bill does two important things: it improves the system for handling service complaints, and—we seem to have forgotten this because it is not contentious, although it is incredibly important—it ensures that we can provide funding anywhere in the world to organisations, notably our great military charities, that support our armed forces community. It is clear from debates on the Bill that there is general agreement about the need to reform the services complaints system, and we all agree on the importance of having a system that is fair, effective, swift when it has to be, and efficient.

Having a robust complaints system is a key part of maintaining morale and therefore ensuring operational effectiveness—a happy crew, ship, team or whatever will work better. That is pretty obvious; unfortunately, it is not always obvious to some, although I hope it will be from now on. It is not a “nice to have” but an essential part of the covenant between our society and those who are willing to lay down their lives to defend it.

As I said, clause 4 has attracted less interest because it is not contentious, although it is important. It will allow us to support organisations that help our armed forces community anywhere in the world, which we all agree is a good thing. The amendments will mean that the proposed service complaints ombudsman will have a wider role than first envisaged. He or she will be able to look at the substance of complaints and at any maladministration in the way it has been handled, not just that alleged by the complainant. The ombudsman will also be able to investigate allegations of undue delay at earlier stages in the process, whether or not a complaint has been made, and that is a good thing.

I will not pretend that this is what the Government initially wanted, but we have listened to arguments from all sides and we have accepted them. I emphasise that on balance I believe that the changes have left us with a stronger and more robust system of oversight with more protections for the individual. The Bill now delivers the right complaints system for our servicemen and women, and on that basis I commend it to the House.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mr Kevan Jones: Portland school, as opposed to Hartland school, but both rejoicing in their being in or close to Worksop.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Monday 23rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Anna Soubry)]

I am incredibly proud of the fact that it was this Government who enshrined the covenant in law. We should all be extremely proud of that, and of the work we have done.

I wrote to all the local authorities that signed the covenant. I have been overwhelmed by their response, and by the outstanding work that many are doing in delivering on their pledges. We must now ensure that that work continues throughout the United Kingdom.

[Mr Speaker]

I believe that the Minister’s justified pride is accompanied by a desire for a grouping.

[Anna Soubry]

I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker. Incidentally, I received a letter from Gedling, whose contents I may share with the hon. Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker).

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Monday 12th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

I strongly support the Government’s initiative for 100 new CCFs in schools across the land. It is a great idea, but the Minister mumbled over the question of the funding formula—[Interruption.] I apologise: she most certainly did not mumble. To put it a different way, I am a little unclear as to what she meant about the funding formula. Will she guarantee that she will not do what she originally planned, namely fund the CCFs by charging existing cadets up to £500 a year for membership?

[Mr Speaker]

That was a gracious withdrawal. I have periodically accused the Minister of things, fairly or unfairly, but I have never, ever accused her of mumbling and I cannot imagine ever doing so.

[Anna Soubry]

Some people wish I would mumble a bit more, Mr Speaker. Let me make the situation very clear, in case my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray) did not hear me, which I find astonishing. There will be no changes. We are determined to support all our cadet units, wherever they are, but we are particularly keen to see growth into the state sector. Everybody should welcome that, especially Government Members because we are the first lot to actually achieve it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Monday 24th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

A short yes is the answer to that, but I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend and her group for the fantastic work that they have done and the excellent report they produced.

[Mr Speaker]

I do not like seeing patient colleagues disappointed, so let us speed on. I call Mr Alan Reid.

[Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was pleased to hear the Minister say that negotiations with defence police and firefighters are still ongoing, but time is running out because the Public Service Pensions Act 2013 comes into effect on 1 April. Will my hon. Friend ensure that these negotiations are concluded to the satisfaction of both sides well before then?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Monday 20th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

Again, I am very grateful for those comments and happily take them on board. I am happy to look at the issue and report back both to the hon. Gentleman and to the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones).

[Mr Speaker]

If the Minister is able to induce happiness in the hon. Member for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell), it will be regarded, I think, by all as a great triumph.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Monday 16th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

I am happy to answer as follows. There has been—[Interruption.] Hon. Members are very keen; it must be the Christmas spirit. If they could just hold their horses for a moment, we might get to an interesting punch line that could steal their joke. In all seriousness, the Secretary of State for Defence and the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government have written to the 11 remaining authorities. I also know that the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan) has spoken at length to Charnwood borough council to ensure that it would sign up. If any local authorities have not signed up by the end of January, I think it might be a good idea for me to ring them and to speak to their leaders personally.

[Mr Speaker]

I think we all agree that that would be a magnificent prospect and that it would bring a prompt end to non-co-operation.

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

I am proud that Kirklees council signed up to the armed forces community covenant on 29 June 2012, demonstrating the strong bond between my local community and our armed forces, particularly as the Yorkshire Regiment suffered such tragic losses in Afghanistan. Does the Minister agree that communities across the UK should show their respect and support for those who risk their lives for our country by signing up to the community covenant?

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry]

It is a serious subject, and certainly one that I take seriously. The armed forces continuous attitudes survey for this year indicated that 10% of personnel believe that they have been the subject of discrimination, harassment or bullying in a service environment in the past 12 months, which unfortunately is 2% higher than in 2012. It is a serious matter, and one that I will always be happy to discuss with the hon. Lady.

[Mr Speaker]

Roger Williams—not here.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Monday 4th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

I cannot give my hon. Friend a figure, but as the scheme is worth £200 million we can be confident that it will be many thousands.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Sir Tony Baldry.

[Mr Speaker]

That is a remarkable self-denying ordinance. If the Minister wants to say something, we must not deny her the opportunity in her maiden performance in this portfolio.

[Anna Soubry]

As ever, I express my grateful thanks to my hon. Friend.

Tobacco Packaging

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Friday 12th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

As I have explained, there has been no change of policy at all. What we have decided to do, based on the consultation, but most importantly based on what the Australian Government have done, is to look at that evidence as it emerges. I have spoken to the Australian high commissioner—[Hon. Members: “Oh!”] Hon. Members on the one hand claim that this is serious—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Let us try to lower the decibel level. Questions should be heard with courtesy, which, to be fair, I think they have been, and the answers must be heard with courtesy.

[Anna Soubry]

I think this is important. I also spoke with one of the leading experts who have been involved in the legislation in Australia, and I was quite surprised that even after about three or four months, they could not give me a picture of any emerging evidence. That is why we need this time. I believe all good legislation should be based on firm, good strong evidence.

[Anna Soubry]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and it was a great honour to meet members of his family. My own father died, after a lifetime as a heavy smoker, from lung cancer, so we are all well aware of the health risks. My hon. Friend makes the good point about what we are doing specifically to stop children from taking up the habit. I have explained about vending machines. Of course, there is also an EU directive; although it may not find a great deal of favour with some Members on my side of the House, it is a very good directive. Work began on it only a few weeks ago, which will mean, for example, that we will not—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna) is chuntering, Mr Speaker, and it is not always very helpful, as I know.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. So the hon. Lady knows. Was she perchance speaking as a practitioner?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. My understanding was that the Minister was asked whether she would meet representatives of the tobacco industry and she indicated that she did not intend to do so. I do not think that she was making any wider claim about what had happened with other Ministers or on previous occasions; she was simply signalling that it was not her intention to meet them. If the Minister wants to speak, she is welcome to do so.

[Anna Soubry]

I will write to the hon. Gentleman.

[Mr Speaker]

I think the position is now clear; the Minister has kindly committed to write to the hon. Gentleman.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Tuesday 27th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

The short answer is yes, I am more than happy to meet my hon. Friend’s constituent to discuss this matter. The figures she relies on for the amount of money going into brain tumour research are based on 2006 data, but the simple answer is that of course we can do far more. I pay tribute to the great advances made by a number of charities, including Headcase Cancer Trust, in my constituency, and others such as the Joseph Foote Trust. They are all raising considerable amounts of money specifically for research projects such as the one at Portsmouth university. I am more than happy to meet my hon. Friend’s constituent. This is an important topic on which we can do more.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the Minister for her answers, including her very generous and gracious remarks. I wish her a full and speedy recovery.

[David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend the Minister agree that Penny Brohn Cancer Care, based near Bristol, which offers a unique combination of physical, emotional and spiritual support designed to help patients live well with the impact of cancer, is an organisation that should be supported? Can she confirm that such organisations are eligible for funds from the cancer drugs fund?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

The Secretary of State could be forgiven for not knowing that 72 years ago yesterday, he was born in the same ward of the same Nottingham hospital as my constituent Mr Roy Plumb. Unfortunately, Mr Plumb had to retire as a magistrate on his 70th birthday. I do not expect the Secretary of State to refer to his own age and I would not want him to retire, but does he agree that the time has come to allow magistrates to serve beyond their 70th birthday?

[Mr Speaker]

Let us hear about the case of Mr Plumb.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Tuesday 15th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

I wonder whether my hon. Friend could help, as there is growing concern about the use of Twitter in the ways described, but for other criminal offences. What actions are the Government taking to make sure that people are not allowed to hide behind their own anonymity when they tweet or use the internet in this way, which is to commit a criminal offence?

[Mr Speaker]

It is most interesting to hear the hon. Lady’s thoughts, but they are relevant in this context only in relation to victims in rape cases, not more widely. That is what the question is about. We are immensely grateful for the hon. Lady’s musings, but I am not sure that they entirely pertinent to the matter under discussion.

[Anna Soubry]

I am sorry.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Monday 26th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I just remind the House that there is a lot to get through so from now on we need shorter questions and shorter answers?

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

T6. The Minister will be familiar with Chetwynd barracks in Chilwell in Broxtowe having visited it just the other week, when he brought a cheque for £50,000 for Alderman Pounder school, for which we are very grateful. Will he ensure that some of the extra money announced in last week’s Budget is provided to soldiers’ families at Chetwynd, who want, like many soldiers, to live on base as a community?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Tuesday 6th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. When the House has calmed down a bit, I will gently and kindly remind the Chancellor that answers are to be about the responsibility for Government policy. It is pretty straightforward.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

T2. Many Conservative Members have long believed that lower-paid workers should be moved out of paying income tax. Will the Chancellor confirm that next month’s increase in personal allowances will have a real benefit for hard-working families in Broxtowe, and can they be increased even more come the Budget, please?

Welfare Reform Bill

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Wednesday 1st February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Let me just make it clear. It is obvious that the shadow Minister is not giving way at the moment. On the Government side, during my time in the Chair since 5.30, there was a preference—on the whole—not to give way to Opposition Members and that is now being replicated by the right hon. Lady. Members may make what they like of that, but there is nothing disorderly about it. It is no good people yelling from a sedentary position to express their frustrations. They must try to contain those frustrations, which I notice the hon. Member for Devizes (Claire Perry) is now successfully doing.

[Mrs McGuire]

Thank you for your wise words, Mr Speaker.

We welcome the reduction that the Minister announced today, and for the record, we welcomed in the other place the additional funding of £20 million that was going to be put in to encourage—

[Anna Soubry]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Could you help me? If a Member asks a question of the whole House, how does one respond to that question other than by asking that Member to give way?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Lady is asking me to speculate about a hypothetical. We could probably have a seminar about the matter, and it might be instructive. There could be a time for that, but it is not now. I feel sure that the hon. Lady has raised not a point of order, but a point of disappointment.

Sentencing Reform/Legal Aid

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. In the interests of maximising the number of contributors, I appeal to hon. and right hon. Members for short questions and short answers.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

Does the Lord Chancellor agree that it was the last Labour Government who, having introduced IPPs, then changed the law for no other reason than to reduce the prison population? As for the thoroughly good idea that we now scrap IPPs, would we not thereby ensure that the public—the victims and, indeed, the offenders—were better protected and had greater justice?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and John Bercow

Tuesday 29th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

A marvellous answer.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

19. What progress has been made on proposed changes to the payment of fees to criminal law barristers through the Legal Services Commission.