Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andy Slaughter and Rupa Huq

Thursday 14th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)]

5. What discussions she had with her Israeli and Palestinian counterparts on compliance with international humanitarian law during her visit to the middle east in February 2024.

[Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

7. What discussions she had with her Israeli and Palestinian counterparts on compliance with international humanitarian law during her visit to the middle west in February 2024.

New Hospital Programme and Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust

Debate between Andy Slaughter and Rupa Huq

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Westminster Hall

[Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the New Hospital Programme and Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust.

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this afternoon, Sir Mark. I understand that our proceedings may be interrupted for some time, but let us make a start. I am delighted to see my west London colleagues here—my hon. Friends the Members for Westminster North (Ms Buck), for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq) and for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury)—and indeed the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken), my hon. Friend the Member for Reading East (Matt Rodda), and, of course, the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), without whom no debate would be complete, perhaps to remind us that although this is to some extent a local or regional issue, it has much wider implications.

To be clear, this debate is about one thing specifically: the defunding and removal from the 2030 new hospital programme of three major hospitals—Charing Cross, Hammersmith, and St Mary’s—all of which form part of the Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust. They are teaching hospitals, major emergency and trauma hospitals, research hospitals, academic hospitals, tertiary hospitals—hospitals with a huge national and international reputation—but they are also local hospitals for my constituents and those of many other Members.

In the Secretary of State’s statement on the new hospital programme on 25 May, seven of the schemes that had previously been in the 40 hospitals scheme were removed from that programme with respect to completion by 2030—we must be careful in our words here. I need to deconstruct what has happened since that time, because there has been some misleading presentation of the facts. In order to clarify this, I sent some rather key questions to the Minister in advance of this debate.

Essentially, looking at the statement that was made, the Secretary of State said, in respect of those seven schemes:

“The work will start on those schemes over the next two years, but they will be part of a rolling programme where not all work will be completed by 2030.”—[Official Report, 25 May 2023; Vol. 733, c. 479.]

That is the key change, as far as we are concerned, in relation to that statement.

The questions that still sadly remain unanswered are these: what works will be done at each of the three hospitals before 2030? How much will the budget be for that, and will it come out of the £20 billion new hospitals by 2030 programme? What is the total budget for the rebuild schemes at each of the three hospitals? Is this secured funding, and when will it be allocated? By what date or dates will the works for each hospital be completed?

I have put together what I think are the answers—I have done my sleuthing—but I really need to hear it from the Minister’s own mouth, this afternoon if possible, or in a follow up if he needs to use that. I might also add a sort of meta-question to that: when will I receive a response to the email that I and my hon. Friend the Member for Westminster North sent to the Secretary of State on 28 May, which raised those same issues?

I understand that there is confusion associated with the new hospital programme—as would be true of any scheme that came in under the aegis of the former Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip—about whether those were new hospitals or not. Almost a year ago, I asked the then Prime Minister about the new hospitals—the “new” hospital at Hammersmith that opened in 1902, and the “new” hospital at Charing Cross that opened in 1818—but I will not focus on that point today. This is about the funding and the timetabling of the scheme; frankly, the Minister can call them whatever he likes.

There have been a number of schemes moving in and out. At one stage there were going to be 48 new hospitals. I think 128 bids came in for the extra eight places and five were successful. We are told there is £20 billion, which sounds like a lot of money—it is a lot of money—but it is not the £32 billion to £35 billion that the Health Service Journal says would be needed to complete all the schemes that have at one time been put forward for the new hospital programme. Those are legitimate grievances, but I do not have time to deal with them all today. I have time only to deal with the one matter that I have already raised.

I need to give a little bit of background. As I have indicated, the hospitals have a long and illustrious history, going back more than two centuries in the case of Charing Cross. In 2012, an Orwellian programme called Shaping a Healthier Future, which had been the product of two years’ secret work by the consultants McKinsey, said that several A&Es should close, including the one at Hammersmith, and that Charing Cross should be demolished and replaced by primary care and treatment services on the site. It was the biggest closure programme in the history of the NHS.

Sadly, we did lose the A&E at Hammersmith in 2014, but after a herculean battle fought over seven years by community groups, such as Save Our Hospitals, and by Labour local authorities, particularly that in Hammersmith, that battle was won and Charing Cross had a reprieve and would go on being a major hospital. That happened in 2019.

It was rumoured that the money that would have been gained by selling most of the land at Charing Cross might have gone into the St Mary’s scheme, which, by common consent, is the hospital that most needs emergency work. But although the bill for essential repairs on the three hospitals is about £350 million—far and away the biggest repair bill of any hospitals in the country—if we want to make those hospitals fit for the 21st century, the actual cost, which I believe is accepted by Department of Health and Social Care officials, will be about 10 times that, between £3 billion and £4 billion. If that seems an unspecific figure—my hon. Friend the Member for Westminster North will say more about this—it is because it depends to some extent on what receipts can be received from land value and moneys at Charing Cross. It is a significant sum of money, but it is to make those essential and world-class hospitals fit for purpose for decades going forward, not just to patch them up.

It was always going to be difficult, and it was disappointing that the hospitals were in cohort 4 and would just squeak in by 2030—that is when the work would be completed. We would have a newly built hospital at St Mary’s and refurbished hospitals at Charing Cross and Hammersmith over that time. That is why it was so disappointing when they were moved out of that without any further future date being given.

What is at stake here? Because there has been so much information, I do not want to use my own words, but the words of the trust itself. In preparation for this debate today, it said:

“the main funding for our schemes has been pushed back beyond the original commitment of 2030 as other schemes have been added to the programme and prioritised. We had two schemes in the original list of 40 hospitals to be built by 2030: a complete rebuild of St Mary’s Hospital in Paddington; and extensive refurbishment and some new build at both Charing Cross Hospital and Hammersmith Hospital”—

confusingly, the Department of Health classifies the two hospitals of Hammersmith and Charing Cross as one scheme, but it certainly affects the two hospitals. The trust goes on:

“It is clearly very disappointing that we will not now be funded to complete these schemes before 2030.”

It also states that

“some funding to progress to final business case approval and to support enabling work”

should be provided, and

“we are awaiting a response in terms of a decision and a funding allocation.”

It then talks about the business plans that it is going to put forward. In rather more emotive but absolutely accurate language, it says:

“If we waited until 2030 to start building works at St Mary’s it would become impossible to patch up our oldest facilities, many of which house key clinical services. As the provider of London’s busiest major trauma centre and host of the NHS’s largest biomedical research centre, that would be hugely damaging for the health and healthcare of hundreds of thousands of people”.

That is the statement from the chief executive officer at Imperial, Professor Tim Orchard, and those words should resonate with the Minister.

[Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)]

I am aware that the Division bell will probably start ringing as soon as I stand up, but I am familiar with that quote from Tim Orchard. My hon. Friend is making a really powerful speech. I am familiar with all these hospitals, as are all my constituents. I was born at Queen Charlotte’s, my little sister was born at Hammersmith, and both my parents were under Charing Cross. I went to the Western Eye Hospital last year when I had shingles, and I have an auntie who has retired but was a consultant professor at St Mary’s.

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is really sad that, in the 75th year of the NHS, we are talking about crumbling estates and all these issues? The backlogs at these hospitals existed long before covid. The Government like to throw up that smokescreen and say, “It’s covid’s fault.” I have just written to Tim Orchard because a constituent told me that there is only one temporary scanner at Hammersmith at the moment. Is that not scandalous? Does my hon. Friend agree that, to paraphrase the Sex Pistols, who were formed on the Wormholt estate, which borders both our constituencies, this is the great NHS scandal?

[Andy Slaughter]

I thank my hon. Friend for that contribution, and I entirely endorse what she said.

I want to deal briefly with the misinformation—I accept that it was wholly unintentional—in the Secretary of State’s statement, or rather in his responses to questions following his statement, because it is important. A ministerial correction was made following a point of order that I made arising out of that. In response to my hon. Friend the Member for Westminster North, the Health Secretary said:

“We recognise the importance of the Imperial bid; that is why we are starting to build the temporary ward capacity at Charing Cross and the first phase of work is under way on the cardiac elective recovery hub, to bring cardiac work on to the Hammersmith site.”—[Official Report, 25 May 2023; Vol. 733, c. 485.]

There are 47 words in that statement, and four errors had to be corrected in the ministerial correction. That may be an all-time record; I do not know. Some are more important than others. There are bids, not one bid. We are not starting to build; we will start to build at some time in the unspecified future. There is no cardiac elective recovery hub; there is a cardiac catheter lab. The idea that we are just moving cardiac services to the Hammersmith Hospital site would be a surprise, given that St Mary’s is a world-leading cardiac hospital at the moment.

I accept that mistakes happen, but there were other errors in that statement. It implied that works are under way, whereas it is common consent now that they have not yet started. The cardiac work is nothing to do with the new hospital programme; it is part of the ordinary work, as is the refurbishment of wards. The temporary ward at Charing Cross will be necessary, but not until the main funding for the floor-by-floor hospital renewal refurbishment is ready to go. Some greater clarity would be helpful on those very contentious matters.

My first question is: what are the enabling works? What does that mean? We have heard several definitions. The trust says:

“We do not yet know when we will be able to start work.”

There has been mention of surveys. Of course there will have to be surveys before the works, which are estimated to cost several billion pounds, start. We are hoping to get a significant sum of money for the business case—perhaps as much as £200 million. This is about rebuilding the three main hospitals.

An energy centre is mentioned. There will need to be a new energy centre, partly because we have major supply issues in west London, and the existing energy supply would not supply modern, state-of-the-art hospitals. All that is true, but what is not true is that this is somehow the beginnings of the major works of the scheme. That is a fig leaf to cover the fact that the major works have been postponed beyond 2030. The fact is that they are not in the 2030 programme or the current spending review. I ask the Minister again: when will the work be done and what funds have been assigned? Yes, there has been preparatory enabling work, but does that come out of the £20 billion? What is the Government’s commitment to the major work of rebuilding those hospitals? There has been some work, with £20 million spent on preparing plans so far, but we are in limbo at the moment. We are suffering repeatedly from misinformation.

I understand that this is a highly contentious political area. The chairman of the Conservative party will, if the Boundary Commission proposals go through, be the MP who covers Charing Cross Hospital. That is no excuse for putting forward matters that are simply misleading to my constituents and many other people. That does us a great disservice. We all want to see these hospitals thrive, in the interests of patients, staff, management, the trust and the hospitals themselves.

Therefore, I will end my comments, because I want to give others an opportunity to contribute. What I need from the Minister today is clarity and honesty about what is happening. We will live with the consequences of that, and we will continue to campaign as we have done for our wonderful hospitals and local NHS. The Government do a disservice if they are not straightforward and clear in the message they send out.