Pub Companies

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Toby Perkins

Tuesday 21st January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Toby Perkins]

That is an important point, and we hear it time and again. Given the economic difficulties and the difference between on-trade and off-trade alcohol, people understand that there are going to be difficult times for pubs. They will also recognise that some people are not suited to running a pub and, for whatever reason, are unable to make a decent fist of it. What sticks in the craw of most fair-minded people, however, is that the majority of those who take on major pubco tenancies end up earning under £10,000 a year. It is not a case of a few people doing very well, a reasonable number making a decent living and a small number failing; we are seeing the majority failing. Under the existing perverse disincentives, regardless of whether the pub does well or badly, the pub company does all right, and many people say that even when their trade grew they got hit with higher rents or higher prices that took away all the increased revenue they had generated. It is clear that there is a desperate imperative to act.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend recently rattled off a great long list of Members on both sides of the House who have rightly campaigned on this issue. Does he share my disappointment that as long ago as last January he brought a debate to this House during which the Government performed a U-turn saying they would seek to introduce a statutory code, which is absolutely necessary, and we had a lengthy consultation, but very little in terms of the legal framework has changed 12 months on?

Business Rates

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 4th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Toby Perkins]

Once again, we hear from Conservative Members who think that it is a success if people are in work but in poverty. I had someone in my constituency surgery just two weeks ago who is doing three of the jobs that have been created and he still cannot afford to pay the mortgage—that is the reality of the recovery that they are delivering. The hon. Gentleman might sit there and tell his constituents, “Don’t worry, trust me, I’ve seen the figures and everything is getting better,” but people look in their wallets at the end of the month and know that in 40 out of the past 41 months wages have gone up by less than the costs that they face. That is the reality of the recovery that his party is delivering.

Lending to small firms has been a major problem since the banking crisis. Labour’s enterprise finance guarantee scheme made a difference, but the funding problem for small and medium-sized enterprises has become a crisis since 2010. Net lending has fallen in 24 of the past 30 months and SMEs still rank access to finance as a key business issue.

The Government are failing on the high street. They failed to give the Portas review serious backing and the local authority funding bombshell undermined the very organisations that Mary Portas envisioned would lead the small shop revolution. A cost of doing-business crisis is hitting British business, with 87% of firms reporting that energy costs have gone up in the past year and 83% of firms believing that the cost of doing business will be higher next year.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to set out the problems faced by small businesses. I have spoken to small businesses in my constituency across Tameside and Stockport. Many of them say that business rates are a major worry, not least because transitional relief is set to end in April next year. Does he agree that one reason why setting our proposal at £50,000 is absolutely right is that it allows small businesses to grow without getting clobbered by a massive business rates hike?

[Toby Perkins]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: there is a real disincentive for many small businesses to grow. His local authority has taken innovative action to ensure that procurement goes to local small businesses, and that is an example to councils everywhere.

As much as anything, the Government’s failure on living standards has hit the pound in consumers’ pockets and pushed many of our stores to the brink. Three wasted years of wages falling behind bills every month means more hardship for Britain’s firms. Confronted by a stubborn opinion poll deficit, the Chancellor is simply flailing around in the dark for Labour policies that he can ape. He is convincing no one. We led on energy prices, but under this Government, bills still go up. We led on payday lending, on which he now thinks we were right. We told him that his funding for lending scheme was overheating the southern property market and failing to get finance to small firms, and now it appears that he agrees; and on business rates, we said things had gone too far, and now he says, “Okay, but just a little bit further.” We know that he does not have the answers. In fact, he does not even understand the questions.

Pub Companies

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Toby Perkins]

That is an excellent point—it is so good that I intend to make it myself shortly. I agree entirely with my hon. Friend.

You will note, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I have thus far been unremittingly positive in my contribution, but even I have my limits. Even my naturally sunny disposition cannot conceal the painful truth of the challenges that the Secretary of State faces if his optimistic announcement is to deliver change. The stipulation of the principle that a tied licensee should be no worse off than a free-of-tie licensee will inform the interpretation of decisions made by the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors. The advice that guidance should be interpreted in the light of the principle is an extraordinarily welcome step. Beyond rents, however, it is hard to see how that principle can be assured without the freeing up of the market that would happen if a free-of-tie option were offered to all new or renewed contracts. Surely, it is only the combination of fair rents and freedom to buy where the landlord chooses—tied if they wish, free if they do not—that frees the industry from the shackles of the pubcos.

Let me make it clear: we are not calling for the end of the tie. We support the Government’s decision to restrict these measures to companies with more than 500 pubs, and recognise that some pubcos use the tied arrangement responsibly. We also value the small family breweries and recognise the important role the tie plays for them. That is why we support a genuine free market option for the major pub-owning companies that allows for a free-of-tie option, with fair rent or a tied option, to be chosen by the landlord. It is impossible to see how the Secretary of State’s proposals will not be compromised without that.

In the initial press release issued at 1.40 pm yesterday, note 7 read:

“The Code will not mandate, as some campaigners have suggested, a ‘free of tie option with open market rent review’. Neither will it abolish the beer tie. Evidence strongly suggests that the tie itself is not the issue—it is in fact a valid business model and its removal would significantly harm the British brewing industry. It is the abuse of the tie in certain circumstances that is causing the problem. The Code will ensure that pub companies use the tie responsibly.”

By 4.37 pm, less than three hours later, an amended press release had omitted note 7 and there was no mention of the free-of-tie option. This is no way to run a whelk stall, much less take crucial decisions on a vital and struggling industry. The central part of this whole issue was ruled out at 1 o’clock, but by 4.37 pm was apparently back on the table.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to push this crucial issue. He is also right to say that the issue is not necessarily about pubcos, and that for some pubs it is a viable business model. The real worry, however, is that without a free-of-tie option, irresponsible pubcos will just continue to use this business model as nothing short of a savings-stripping exercise.

[Toby Perkins]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend, who makes the point extremely well.

I appreciate that yesterday was a bit of a day for the Secretary of State, but we could do with clarity on the free-of-tie issue. Assuming that the new version is right, why was note 7 there in the first version? Is the industry supposed to have confidence that the Secretary of State has not made his mind up when the thoughts in his mind, wildly at odds with the view of this House and all established thought in the industry, are so clearly exposed? I am assuming that it was not a typo, and that a monkey did not arrive at his keyboard and randomly tap away 81 words in what appear to be an order. If it is not a mistake, someone wrote them and wrote them for a reason. I hope the Secretary of State will respond to the point and say why that note came out initially.

There are other significant challenges with the way the system is currently operating. On independent advice, the British Institute of Innkeeping advice service, which was promised for July 2012, still does not exist, and there would be questions about its independence if it did. Meanwhile, the truly independent Pubs Advisory Service, a voluntary organisation, is under-resourced and steps must be taken to strengthen awareness of it and to retain its independence. The Pubs Independent Conciliation and Arbitration Service is not viewed as independent at all. It is funded and dominated by the big pubco lobby. It is also there to see if the pubcos are adhering to the entirely inappropriate and inadequate codes that currently apply.

I met Alan Yorke yesterday, the first person to go through the PICAS process. He described it as shambolic, intimidatory and not remotely independent. He tells me that he felt that it was entirely beholden to the pubco with which he was in dispute, and, despite his winning the case, the successful attempts by the pubco to delay the process resulted in him losing the pub before the case was heard. He is now being pursued through the courts for back rent from the pubco, despite its never completing the task that he had originally sought action on. With all the problems that the Secretary of State has identified, how can he possibly be satisfied with PICAS? Yet yesterday he described it as working well, with two of the three cases that have gone in front of it winning their case. Mr Yorke’s case is one of those that won; sometimes winning does not feel so great.

The Pubs Independent Rent Review Scheme is similarly discredited. Of the five independent reviewers in London, it appears that four have clear conflicts of interest as businesses that provide services to the big pubcos. I can provide the Secretary of State with specific details of their links, if he is unaware of them, but suffice it to say that there is considerable room for improvement. The BII’s own financial position is described as “pretty grim” by its chairman, and its dwindling membership suggests distrust about its relationship with pubcos and the potential reliance on them. We understand that the proposed overarching body that will look after each of those organisations will be similarly compromised. The Guild of Master Victuallers and the Association of Licensed Multiple Retailers were apparently being offered places on the organisational board in return for signing up to the discredited original framework code.

The Secretary of State laments that the measures taken 14 months ago have not led to a culture change in the industry. How did anyone possibly think that they would do so when they required so little of the pubcos? We should remember that the Secretary of State claimed that his solution would be quicker, could be just as effective, and would ensure that pub companies changed their mode of operations.

I have here the code of Enterprise Inns. Members will be interested to know that it has various provisions that were cited by the British Beer and Pub Association to the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills as “immediate improvements” to the version 5 framework code. They were copied and pasted by the Department into the Government response in December 2011. There is abolition of upward-only rent reviews; training availability; access to information on the pub—letting details, trading information, rent calculations and time scales for taking up occupation. There is availability of the price list. All those steps were supposed to be the big improvements that the Minister had wrung out of the pubcos. However, that is Enterprise’s code from 2002. All that is already there—not “immediate improvements” at all. The previous Minister also said that the code would rebalance risk and reward within the industry. Members will be aware that at the meeting of the all-party save the pub group the balance of risk and reward between the pubcos and their lessees was not, in the view of the BBPA, something in which it had any role.

The challenges facing the Secretary of State are significant if he is to deliver the real change that Labour is calling for in this debate. He has made a start. If, having started, he continues to follow the courage of his convictions, he will find that Her Majesty’s Opposition will do everything they can to help to get a meaningful code on the statute book as quickly as possible. We will work with the Government, but their response must pass three simple but key tests. First, will the statutory code include a free-of-tie option and a guest beer right? Secondly, will it deliver fair rents? Thirdly, will the independent adjudicator and the independent advice service work properly? It appears from comments made by the Secretary of State that there is real potential for delivery on the rents and the adjudicator and the advice service. However, there is a lack of clarity on the beer tie and a guest beer right, both of which are central standards that a whole range of organisations will be asking the Government to meet.

Let me make it clear that if the Government shirk their responsibility and the situation remains as it is today, when the next Labour Government come to power in 2015 we will introduce the regulation. However, this Government should introduce what we have called for today. The British pub stands on the precipice. The industry has failed the fairness test and it falls to this Government—or to the next Government—to have the bravery to do what is right. We will not fail the British pub; we hope the Government will not either. I commend the motion to the House.

Finance Bill

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Toby Perkins

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Toby Perkins]

Absolutely. My hon. Friend makes an important point. The impact is being felt on the cost of everything, even items on which VAT is not charged, because businesses and members of the public are having to spend more on others items. There is the impact on fuel and heating costs and the downward pressure on wages, as we see the failure to achieve economic growth and the public sector being told that it will have no wage increases for two years and that pension contributions will increase. All those impacts are contributing to people spending more on VAT and having less money.

[Andrew Gwynne]

New clause 10 proposes an assessment of the impact of VAT on the economy, and of course we can now make a direct comparison with a fairly recent period when the previous Labour Government introduced a temporary cut in VAT and got the economy growing again. Is it not the case that we need to make that assessment so that we can see where this Government are getting it so badly wrong?

[Toby Perkins]

Absolutely. The new clause could not be more reasonable. It is impossible to imagine even having a vote on it, because I cannot see how anyone could argue against the need for an assessment when there is so little growth in our economy.

Local Government Financing

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Toby Perkins

Tuesday 29th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

May I take this opportunity to say how pleasing it is to have not one but two Lancastrians as Deputy Speakers?

I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I rent a constituency office from Tameside council and have parking permits from both Tameside and Stockport.

I pay tribute to the work done by all councillors, irrespective of party affiliation. Having served as a local councillor for 12 years before entering the House, I fully understand how difficult the role is. It is often a thankless task, yet to serve local communities in local government is also a massive privilege and honour. I do not think we do enough to recognise the work of those who serve in local government.

I also want to place on record my tribute to Councillor Roy Oldham CBE, who served as leader of Tameside metropolitan borough council from 1980 until this year. Those 30 years at the top made him the longest serving council leader in the country, and his achievement in transforming the borough from sleepy backwater into one of the leading metropolitan districts in the country—the best in the north-west according to the Audit Commission—is a testament to his drive and vision to make the borough a leading council. Roy is currently recovering from illness and I wish him well. I am sure the new council leader, Councillor Kieran Quinn, will want to make his mark on the borough too, and build on the excellent achievements of the past few years. It will be a tough job, not least because of the tightening financial situation, but I am sure he will do his best for the area and I have every confidence that Tameside will continue to be at the forefront of local government.

The recent Budget was called the “unavoidable” Budget, and some important choices were made in it that will impact heavily on local government. There was a certain irony in the use of that term, however, as the report earlier this month from the new Office for Budget Responsibility indicated that the previous Government’s fiscal plans would have eliminated the bulk of the structural deficit by 2015. So these cuts that go so deep so quickly may not make the economic sense that the Government would have us believe. Clearly, they have decided to go further and faster, but these cuts seem more ideologically driven than based on sound economic fact. We will soon find out both if the Conservative-Liberal Government have been correct and about the wisdom of these actions.

It appears that the local government sector and workers will be facing the worst situation for a generation as the Chancellor tries to cut spending just as Baroness Thatcher did but in half the time. That will mean brutal cuts in the budgets of all Departments. The Chancellor is talking about 25% cuts across the board, but as we are told that the education, health and defence budgets will get off relatively lightly, I strongly suspect that other budgets, such as that for the Department for Communities and Local Government, will have to be cut by much more than a quarter. We will see what the real cost is to these Departments.

I urge caution. We need to be careful in how we address the local government cuts. Many local agencies now work in very close partnership one with another, so a cut in one area may well be to the serious detriment of activities in another. Budget cuts in local government will not be in “silos”, as all agencies are now largely linked up. We therefore need to look at the interactions between various services. It is easy to cut the aids and adaptations budgets for adult social services, but if the result of cutting a £100 handrail for an elderly constituent is to have to pay thousands of pounds for a hip operation in the NHS, that will not have saved the public purse.

We must not miss the bigger picture. If the cuts start to dismantle these working arrangements, service provision will be back as it was in the 1980s: Department-based, with no thinking outside the box and little joint thinking. For example, interrupting good local management on antisocial behaviour, family intervention and domestic violence will have a real impact on the communities I represent—on people who truly depend on services that no one else will provide and that no one else is better placed to co-ordinate.

As I have said, the scale of the cuts poses a serious challenge to local authorities’ ability to deliver services that meet the expectations of people—in my constituency, especially people who live in Stockport and Tameside—over the coming five years and beyond. The Tameside part of my constituency will be particularly affected. It has been ranked as an area of high deprivation, the 56th most deprived local authority area in England. Already, the changes to benefits and tax credits will have a disproportionate effect on Tameside residents due to the existing high levels of income deprivation, and may lead to even more people calling on council services in their time of need. This will be happening at the same time as further funding cuts to the council and its partners start to bite—a double whammy for the people of Tameside and the people of Reddish, to whom I will turn later in my remarks.

Tameside had expected to receive some £23.5 million of area-based grant funding in 2010-11. That has been reduced by £2.34 million—about 10%. Services will clearly be cut at a time when demand will inevitably rise, so Tameside is already anticipating and preparing for a number of hard choices over the coming years. The council has developed a medium-term financial strategy. It expects cuts of up to 10% a year for area-based grants and specific grants—about £5 million in total—on top of cuts to formula grant funding and restrictions on council tax, with a possibility of reductions in capital funding as well.

There will also be an impact on voluntary and community sector grant funding, a sector which contributes significantly to the capacity to deliver improved outcomes through community-based work. Activities to provide opportunities to young people may have to be reduced, along with youth provision, which is non-statutory, in order to ensure that work with vulnerable and looked-after children is maintained. It is therefore crucial that the council and its partners be able to maintain their levels of investment, both grant and mainstream, in effective prevention work. This Government must be clear that local government plays a vital role in delivering crucial services across communities and should be a spending priority, rather than taking more than its fair share of the burden.

I am also extremely concerned about the knock-on implications for regeneration in my constituency. Excellent work has been done by the Denton South Partnership in Haughton Green, one of the deprived parts of my constituency. This has been a model of effective partnership working, bringing together all the agencies such as the council, the primary care trust, the police and local housing associations. I pay tribute to the work of David Howarth, the chair, and all the members of the partnership. However, such a proactive approach to solving problems will go if all the partner agencies face the same budget reductions, which will lead to massive disinvestment in the communities where help is needed most.

I turn briefly to the Stockport part of my constituency, where there is also a great deal of concern. Cuts of £1.69 million to the area-based grant—

[Toby Perkins]

My hon. Friend is highlighting the extent to which the cuts, which would not have been made under a Labour Government because of our commitment to supporting people in their efforts to get work, will be targeted at the most deprived people in our communities. Does he agree that targeting areas in which disadvantaged people are out of work is a particularly cruel measure for this Government to take?

[Andrew Gwynne]

It is, and I agree fully with my hon. Friend. Parts of my constituency are still trying to recover from the previous Tory Government’s attack on those communities, despite the great work of the last Labour Government, and that progress needs to be maintained.

The area-based grant is finance used to help various services, such as those for deprived and vulnerable children. What is the alternative to cuts in services such as family intervention? If those services are cut locally, more children may be taken into care because there is no early intervention to fix problems quickly, which would cost the taxpayer significantly more. It costs approximately £24,000 a year to take a child into care. The cuts could well impact more harshly on less affluent areas of Stockport, such as Reddish. Liberal Democrat Stockport council does not do anything like enough for its most deprived communities, including the Reddish wards. I am concerned that they will be an easy target for the kind of cuts we now face. So there are a number of concerns for constituencies such as mine, because the Government’s announcements will hit a host of services that affect local people. It is clear that the areas that will be most affected are poorer areas in the cities and metropolitan boroughs. Labour has a strong record of increasing funding for local authorities in those areas and using them to deliver national priorities by harnessing the best locally.

This Government clearly have a new view of localism, which does not take much account of local people. These cuts fail, as they break all promises not to balance the books on the backs of the poorest, and they show that the Government’s claims of fairness are pretty empty and do not seem to look much beyond the world outside the comfortable home counties.