International Development Committee
Tuesday 20th October 2026
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14:03
David Mundell
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David Mundell
I begin the evidence. A session of the International Development Committee today on our inquiry into the UK and the Sahel. And this is the first witness session , which is a hybrid session, partly here in the Committee room and partly virtually. So can I ask our witnesses to introduce themselves and perhaps begin with you? Abdel Raouf.
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14:04
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
Thanks for the question. I will start by giving the statistic. It's about 20 million individuals trapped in forced displacement. 4 million refugees and asylum seekers, 14 million IDPs across the region, mainly from the central Sahel coastal countries of Gulf of Guinea countries Togo, Benin, Cote d'Ivoire, Ghana, the Lake Chad Basin where unfortunately, we are seeing a worrying trend because of the resumption of resumption of attack of non-state armed groups and the spillover towards Cameroon, Niger, Chad, the whole Lake Chad Basin region. And then of course, countries like Chad, we are lucky to have the Representative Patrice with us.
And then Central African Republic region, as well as Congo, DRC, with the whole complexity that we all know when it comes to Congo, DRC, Ebola, malaria, cholera, as well as the conflict in the eastern part of the country. So out of that statistic, it's important to mention that it's about 82% of women and children trapped in that displacement. The average duration of displacement in the region, it's around 15 years, 20 years. So you will agree with me that this is an element that indicates that displacement in the region goes far beyond the humanitarian portfolio. The internal and external aspects which make it very, you know, compelling the border intervention, the social cohesion, the pressure on the local communities, pressure on the host government, the whole pressure on the asylum system.
Because as we respond to the need of all these displaced population and the host communities, it's important to ensure that those member states, you know, keep their obligation when it comes to asylum access to international protection. So this is basically maybe just another statistic struggling a lot when it comes to the young people. Access to education. 62% of the total population of refugee children aged to go to school are out of school. So this is a challenge. And all of this is happening in the context where we see political instability, where we see pressure with the climate change effects, where we see economic hardship, food insecurity.
So not easy in that region, if I can put it in one word.
And then Central African Republic region, as well as Congo, DRC, with the whole complexity that we all know when it comes to Congo, DRC, Ebola, malaria, cholera, as well as the conflict in the eastern part of the country. So out of that statistic, it's important to mention that it's about 82% of women and children trapped in that displacement. The average duration of displacement in the region, it's around 15 years, 20 years. So you will agree with me that this is an element that indicates that displacement in the region goes far beyond the humanitarian portfolio. The internal and external aspects which make it very, you know, compelling the border intervention, the social cohesion, the pressure on the local communities, pressure on the host government, the whole pressure on the asylum system.
Because as we respond to the need of all these displaced population and the host communities, it's important to ensure that those member states, you know, keep their obligation when it comes to asylum access to international protection. So this is basically maybe just another statistic struggling a lot when it comes to the young people. Access to education. 62% of the total population of refugee children aged to go to school are out of school. So this is a challenge. And all of this is happening in the context where we see political instability, where we see pressure with the climate change effects, where we see economic hardship, food insecurity.
So not easy in that region, if I can put it in one word.
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14:08
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
I think the trajectory will depend on how do we act now. And this is why I feel so privileged to be in front of this August committee to really thank Fcdo and the UK for the support that they have given to that region, not only in Chad, but beyond Chad. But this is the moment. I feel like this is a tipping point where we all need to come together, understand the baseline, the data that we have and the need for us to really work hand in hand. We can't continue to work in isolation. The humanitarian actors on one side, development entities on the other side, government trying whatever they can, you know, to respond to the needs.
Local communities sometimes feel abandoned because they don't see the support that, you know, they require . The private sector, which also needs to understand that there is a space for them to be present in a, in a, in a practical manner to support all these efforts. So to answer your question, it is simply one but difficult. If we don't act now, then unfortunately, situation will just, you know, be a bit complicated. 90% of the displacement is happening within the region. You can see it through the IDP figure that I have just shared with you. We have few individuals who, you know, are compelled to take away further, you know, away from from the region.
But my fear is that if we don't act sufficiently to address the need, then we will see more and more people leaving all these border areas trying to reach, you know, places where they believe that they can get access to many other opportunities.
Local communities sometimes feel abandoned because they don't see the support that, you know, they require . The private sector, which also needs to understand that there is a space for them to be present in a, in a, in a practical manner to support all these efforts. So to answer your question, it is simply one but difficult. If we don't act now, then unfortunately, situation will just, you know, be a bit complicated. 90% of the displacement is happening within the region. You can see it through the IDP figure that I have just shared with you. We have few individuals who, you know, are compelled to take away further, you know, away from from the region.
But my fear is that if we don't act sufficiently to address the need, then we will see more and more people leaving all these border areas trying to reach, you know, places where they believe that they can get access to many other opportunities.
14:09
Monica Harding
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Monica Harding
Can can I also put to you that we asked a senior director from the Foreign Office why there were cuts to aid and development in the Sahel. And one of his answer to the question was, well, look, for example, the French have put in a lot of money to the Sahel for a long period of time, and nothing's worked. So it was almost as if to say nothing will ever work. So my question to you is why? What? What has not worked so far and what is different now? How? How should it work?
14:10
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
I think if you look at the way that we were responding to the needs in the Sahel, let me just state Sahel, for instance. I remember when I look at because I was UNHCR representative in Burkina Faso in 2021. So I saw it for myself. The level of resources that we had to deal with 1 million IDPs. When I compare it with the level of resources that we have been entrusted in 2026, I think it's a day and night and the numbers have increased. So meaning that we can't continue to only respond to the need of those who are fleeing.
It's important to look at how do we stabilize? So for us, maybe this is a way, this is where we need to understand each other. When it comes to stabilization, working with local communities, bringing back agency to those communities they displaced and their host communities. Because sometimes we tend to forget that the, the, the first responders are the communities. So how do we restore back agencies to those communities? How do we rebuild the local systems? And those are the kind of things that I see today. I was just recently, a month ago in Mali and Burkina Faso, was pleased to see how communities themselves are reinventing new ways of addressing, you know, the challenges they are confronted with.
So we need to listen to the communities. This is why data is so important. And this is one of the areas in which Fcdo is supporting us a lot to understand through the data. They need the pattern and see exactly how can we then, you know, influence the intervention. So I think we can't continue doing things that are not, you know, yielding results. This is the time when we need to really reinvent a new way of engaging in the Sahel and across the region.
It's important to look at how do we stabilize? So for us, maybe this is a way, this is where we need to understand each other. When it comes to stabilization, working with local communities, bringing back agency to those communities they displaced and their host communities. Because sometimes we tend to forget that the, the, the first responders are the communities. So how do we restore back agencies to those communities? How do we rebuild the local systems? And those are the kind of things that I see today. I was just recently, a month ago in Mali and Burkina Faso, was pleased to see how communities themselves are reinventing new ways of addressing, you know, the challenges they are confronted with.
So we need to listen to the communities. This is why data is so important. And this is one of the areas in which Fcdo is supporting us a lot to understand through the data. They need the pattern and see exactly how can we then, you know, influence the intervention. So I think we can't continue doing things that are not, you know, yielding results. This is the time when we need to really reinvent a new way of engaging in the Sahel and across the region.
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14:12
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
Across the Sahel? Thank you, thank you, I, I will. Thank you, chair, and thank you, Madame, for this for this question. I will first of all start with the coordination within Chad and then the coordination between Chad and the and the and the and the and the Sahel countries in terms of activities and in terms of also cross-border response. Chad, as you know, is facing multiple crises. Conflict in neighboring countries, security conflict, armed conflict, security issue, armed conflict, a climate crisis as well, and also food insecurity. And I'm sure Mark will will talk more about food insecurity.
And of course, all these triggering forced displacement. But what is important here is how these forced displacement is provoking, you know, human shock, let's say three level of shocks. We have the human shock. We have the the demographic shocks. And we have also the territorial shocks. With the human shock. We are seeing, you know, refugees, IDPs, host communities in very dire situations, women and girls paying, you know, heavy price. And many of them, especially the children are who are sacrificing, let's say, the childhood, because the circumstances of the conflict, you know, is putting them or are putting them in a situation where they have to be, you know, head of household, a role they are not supposed to play at their age.
Demographic shock because we are seeing refugees, IDPs and returnees representing the majority in most of the areas. For instance, the Sudanese refugees in the eastern part of Chad, one we have 1 in 3 in eastern Chad is a refugee. 1 in 3. So this shows you the shock in terms of demography and the shock also in terms of territory, because all the territorial setting that was pre-existing before the conflict has changed in a context where decentralization has been action by the by, the Chadian government. But this need to look into or to take into account the presence of refugees in order to, you know, to have a proper administrative setup.
So these are the three level of shocks. But facing this, we really need to coordinate better with the with the A different neighboring countries, for instance, coordination between Chad and Sudan is through the cross-border activities to ensure that we are not only providing for refugees, but the capacity is also extended to the internally displaced people within within Sudan because the inaction in Sudan will trigger more displacement into Chad. That is why there is this coordination between the two. The two teams, agencies, NGOs, as well as local authorities to make sure that the cross-border response can be provided between Chad and, and and let's say, Cameroon and also Central African Republic and also Nigeria between Chad and Nigeria.
What we we put in place is, first of all, thanks to thanks to thanks to Fcdo with the a protection monitoring . Because once again, all comes to data because to better coordinate you need data to understand the trend of the movement and to understand also the cross-border, you know, movement and and to be able to do cross-border analysis. So we have also this coordination in place between Chad and Nigeria. And this help us to assess the situation in the in the places of origin of refugees, Nigerian refugees living in Chad, what is the situation in the places of origin?
And this. We are doing it thanks to a. The data collection and data analysis tool that a F for which Fcdo is supporting. So we are coordinating also at that level. The same thing with with with a Central African Republic where we have more than 140,000 refugees from Central African Republic living in Chad right now, we are discussing how to support their return because in the midst of all this situation, we have also, you know, a, let's say, a pocket of hope in terms of return. And this is what car and all the stakeholders in Central African Republic are doing in all this development poll to see what kind of investment can be made in Car.
So that return is sustainable through. We have tools to analyze, to understand the, the, the, the priorities in the places of origin. There are some key priority projects, but once again, it comes to implementation of this project to make sure that when people return, they don't come back so that the reintegration is effective and return is sustainable. So coordination with all these countries is, is, is very, is very essential. But most importantly is also the coordination within Chad because we are today at a crossroad where some of the mistakes, you know, made collectively in, let's say in 2003, it shouldn't be made anymore.
I think this is the narrative that we all have. We all agree that for the first crisis of Sudan in 2003, the. They have not been proper investment development, investment in in refugee hosting areas. How do we correct that? It should be, first of all, through coordination from the start, coordination under the leadership of the government. And for the first time, the government, the UN agencies, the NGOs, a the the diplomatic representation, a, all the donors, we sit together and agree on a coordination model. All this to to make sure that the government is taking the leadership.
We are there as UN agencies and NGOs to support the implementation of the new model of coordination and. This coordination is being done through the line ministries so that refugees host communities, IDPs. They are integrated in the National Development Plan and in the provincial development plan. So this is the the the way we are, we are really coordinating at all levels.
And of course, all these triggering forced displacement. But what is important here is how these forced displacement is provoking, you know, human shock, let's say three level of shocks. We have the human shock. We have the the demographic shocks. And we have also the territorial shocks. With the human shock. We are seeing, you know, refugees, IDPs, host communities in very dire situations, women and girls paying, you know, heavy price. And many of them, especially the children are who are sacrificing, let's say, the childhood, because the circumstances of the conflict, you know, is putting them or are putting them in a situation where they have to be, you know, head of household, a role they are not supposed to play at their age.
Demographic shock because we are seeing refugees, IDPs and returnees representing the majority in most of the areas. For instance, the Sudanese refugees in the eastern part of Chad, one we have 1 in 3 in eastern Chad is a refugee. 1 in 3. So this shows you the shock in terms of demography and the shock also in terms of territory, because all the territorial setting that was pre-existing before the conflict has changed in a context where decentralization has been action by the by, the Chadian government. But this need to look into or to take into account the presence of refugees in order to, you know, to have a proper administrative setup.
So these are the three level of shocks. But facing this, we really need to coordinate better with the with the A different neighboring countries, for instance, coordination between Chad and Sudan is through the cross-border activities to ensure that we are not only providing for refugees, but the capacity is also extended to the internally displaced people within within Sudan because the inaction in Sudan will trigger more displacement into Chad. That is why there is this coordination between the two. The two teams, agencies, NGOs, as well as local authorities to make sure that the cross-border response can be provided between Chad and, and and let's say, Cameroon and also Central African Republic and also Nigeria between Chad and Nigeria.
What we we put in place is, first of all, thanks to thanks to thanks to Fcdo with the a protection monitoring . Because once again, all comes to data because to better coordinate you need data to understand the trend of the movement and to understand also the cross-border, you know, movement and and to be able to do cross-border analysis. So we have also this coordination in place between Chad and Nigeria. And this help us to assess the situation in the in the places of origin of refugees, Nigerian refugees living in Chad, what is the situation in the places of origin?
And this. We are doing it thanks to a. The data collection and data analysis tool that a F for which Fcdo is supporting. So we are coordinating also at that level. The same thing with with with a Central African Republic where we have more than 140,000 refugees from Central African Republic living in Chad right now, we are discussing how to support their return because in the midst of all this situation, we have also, you know, a, let's say, a pocket of hope in terms of return. And this is what car and all the stakeholders in Central African Republic are doing in all this development poll to see what kind of investment can be made in Car.
So that return is sustainable through. We have tools to analyze, to understand the, the, the, the priorities in the places of origin. There are some key priority projects, but once again, it comes to implementation of this project to make sure that when people return, they don't come back so that the reintegration is effective and return is sustainable. So coordination with all these countries is, is, is very, is very essential. But most importantly is also the coordination within Chad because we are today at a crossroad where some of the mistakes, you know, made collectively in, let's say in 2003, it shouldn't be made anymore.
I think this is the narrative that we all have. We all agree that for the first crisis of Sudan in 2003, the. They have not been proper investment development, investment in in refugee hosting areas. How do we correct that? It should be, first of all, through coordination from the start, coordination under the leadership of the government. And for the first time, the government, the UN agencies, the NGOs, a the the diplomatic representation, a, all the donors, we sit together and agree on a coordination model. All this to to make sure that the government is taking the leadership.
We are there as UN agencies and NGOs to support the implementation of the new model of coordination and. This coordination is being done through the line ministries so that refugees host communities, IDPs. They are integrated in the National Development Plan and in the provincial development plan. So this is the the the way we are, we are really coordinating at all levels.
14:19
Monica Harding
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Monica Harding
That's very helpful. Thank you. Patrice. If I could come back to you. And you touched on this already with 24 million people estimated to need humanitarian assistance and protection in the region this year, but only 8.2 million prioritised by UN agencies for urgent support. What are the risks of leaving those needs unmet?
14:20
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
We see it already happening with the cuts, the reduction of humanitarian funding that we have experienced in the region, 50% reduction of humanitarian funding in 2025. When it comes to development support, Oda, a reduction close to approximately 70% across across the region. So I made the first point. We can only see, you know, the aggravation of what I was mentioning, the access to education. I mean, we we see, you know, it becoming difficult for children to continue to have access to, you know, education system. And then the other dimension I can also mention is when it comes to registration, we don't have the capacity.
Government, you know, are not also having the capacity to register individuals, you know, in the national database. So this is one of the risks that I also see. And I made the pathway towards solution agenda. I mean, if we are not investing because this is not aid, this is investment, but how do we make it happen? And as one of my colleagues used to say, there is no solution, humanitarian solution for humanitarian problems. So for us, this is a call that, you know, we have reached a limit in terms of the model, the current model where we systematically repeat, you know, the same humanitarian aid.
Something new need to come, you know, to come in addition to what we are used to do. It's the investment. So investment. By opening space to international financial institutions. This is what we are doing working closely with the world Bank, African Development Bank, Islamic Development Bank and working also with some foundations like Mastercard Foundation. Actually, Mastercard Foundation is helping us a lot, working and structuring our engagement when it comes to localisation, working with the communities. We have received some support since last year to really build the capacity of close to 300, you know, a local organization led by women in that region.
So I think definitely, if the cut remains where they are, we will only see, you know, the situation in a very bad situation. I mean, the situation will be very bad, not only for the communities and the individuals, but also for the receiving countries.
Government, you know, are not also having the capacity to register individuals, you know, in the national database. So this is one of the risks that I also see. And I made the pathway towards solution agenda. I mean, if we are not investing because this is not aid, this is investment, but how do we make it happen? And as one of my colleagues used to say, there is no solution, humanitarian solution for humanitarian problems. So for us, this is a call that, you know, we have reached a limit in terms of the model, the current model where we systematically repeat, you know, the same humanitarian aid.
Something new need to come, you know, to come in addition to what we are used to do. It's the investment. So investment. By opening space to international financial institutions. This is what we are doing working closely with the world Bank, African Development Bank, Islamic Development Bank and working also with some foundations like Mastercard Foundation. Actually, Mastercard Foundation is helping us a lot, working and structuring our engagement when it comes to localisation, working with the communities. We have received some support since last year to really build the capacity of close to 300, you know, a local organization led by women in that region.
So I think definitely, if the cut remains where they are, we will only see, you know, the situation in a very bad situation. I mean, the situation will be very bad, not only for the communities and the individuals, but also for the receiving countries.
14:22
Monica Harding
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Monica Harding
Thank you. It struck me when I was in the camps, actually, and on the Chad-sudan border. We were very interested in the women and girls and the violence that they had. Experienced, but it was felt there was nobody actually there to be able to ask them the questions because the resources were so stretched. So it was impossible to go after atrocity prevention or actually accountability, because there was no one to actually ask the questions of the women. So I think that probably puts into what you're saying. Can I come to you, please, Mark? Could you outline the operational difficulties of only receiving short term reactive funding from international partners?
14:23
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yes, absolutely. Good afternoon, and thank you again for the opportunity to to intervene today. So first foremost, maybe let me focus on the on the food insecurity in the Sahel. So we have 9.7 million people that are facing food insecurity in 2026 in the Sahel. So it is the the drivers of food insecurity have already been mentioned by my colleagues, which I, I salute. We have a combination of conflict, of displacement, of climate change and of economic pressures. So it is it is both severe and structural at the same time. So the needs are great.
Again, 9.7 million people that are in food insecurity and the resources are are reducing. We also have a longer term trend. So we have a population growth. We have climate change, which is going to impact the Sahel in particular, because there's a 1.5 degrees difference in terms of of average average temperatures that are forecasted for the for the Sahel. And we also have El Nino. So El Nino is forecasted to be quite severe. In the next season. So first half of 2027 and in the whole of West and Central Africa region, 6 million more people are going to experience food insecurity because of El Nino.
So additional challenges. We have also the impact of of the Hormuz Strait crisis of the of the Middle East. Why? Because there is an increase in food prices, an increase in fuel prices, and an increase in all the inputs that are needed to sustain food production. The other factor that you mentioned, and thank you for the question, is the decreased investment from from donors. So how do we do to to face this? We have to prioritize. And the prioritization means assisting those that are most vulnerable and trying to assist them as well with doable solutions.
And I wanted to, to come to that to say that it is not all doom and gloom because there are solutions, there are possibilities to invest for the UK, for donors in longer term solutions. For example, in the resilience program that we have across the Sahel called the Integrated Resilience Program, we managed in the last years to to restore degraded land more than 300,000 hectares, assisting a cumulative number of 8 million people across the Sahel. And this really has a lot of impact in the in the long term. It helps to avoid and to reduce humanitarian needs.
It helps to reduce migration. It helps to reduce coping mechanisms. And it also helps to support human capital. Because there's not only land restoration and the green coverage, which is coming back to the degraded lands of the Sahel. There is also children going back to school. There is also social protection systems that are being put in place again. So there is a place for investment and there is place for making sure that families and communities want to stay where they are, because if they have livelihood opportunities, they will not need to migrate. They will not need to be displaced.
Again, 9.7 million people that are in food insecurity and the resources are are reducing. We also have a longer term trend. So we have a population growth. We have climate change, which is going to impact the Sahel in particular, because there's a 1.5 degrees difference in terms of of average average temperatures that are forecasted for the for the Sahel. And we also have El Nino. So El Nino is forecasted to be quite severe. In the next season. So first half of 2027 and in the whole of West and Central Africa region, 6 million more people are going to experience food insecurity because of El Nino.
So additional challenges. We have also the impact of of the Hormuz Strait crisis of the of the Middle East. Why? Because there is an increase in food prices, an increase in fuel prices, and an increase in all the inputs that are needed to sustain food production. The other factor that you mentioned, and thank you for the question, is the decreased investment from from donors. So how do we do to to face this? We have to prioritize. And the prioritization means assisting those that are most vulnerable and trying to assist them as well with doable solutions.
And I wanted to, to come to that to say that it is not all doom and gloom because there are solutions, there are possibilities to invest for the UK, for donors in longer term solutions. For example, in the resilience program that we have across the Sahel called the Integrated Resilience Program, we managed in the last years to to restore degraded land more than 300,000 hectares, assisting a cumulative number of 8 million people across the Sahel. And this really has a lot of impact in the in the long term. It helps to avoid and to reduce humanitarian needs.
It helps to reduce migration. It helps to reduce coping mechanisms. And it also helps to support human capital. Because there's not only land restoration and the green coverage, which is coming back to the degraded lands of the Sahel. There is also children going back to school. There is also social protection systems that are being put in place again. So there is a place for investment and there is place for making sure that families and communities want to stay where they are, because if they have livelihood opportunities, they will not need to migrate. They will not need to be displaced.
14:27
14:27
14:27
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yeah, we it is a great challenge because we are in of, of needs that are very substantial. And the reduced funding that we are receiving. Let's say, obliged us to cut down on, on many programs that are vital for, for people. I'm not speaking only about humanitarian assistance, about nutrition programs. Another figure that we didn't mention is that there are more than 10 million people that are 10 million children that are malnourished in the region. That's another program on which we have to reduce. We have to reduce the number of people we're assisting, assisting 4 million less people that we were planning to.
So these are big, substantial cuts that have an impact. And that basically make it so that the negative coping strategies that are that have been mentioned by by my colleagues, unfortunately, also come back in these communities where we had to cut and and that were not able to assist any more. So as I was saying, 4 million less people that we can assist across the Sahel. So that's quite a that's quite an impact. And of course, it's very difficult to to face it. We face it with the prioritizing the resources and making sure that we have more impact on the most acute needs.
We do so also by working together as agencies. So with the UNHCR, which is here, we conduct joint assessments. We target the resources to the same refugees, the same IDPs, not only with the open ended and endless assistance, but with durable solutions based on vulnerability. And this is extremely important because it also helps us to reduce cost, to have cost efficiencies and coordination, and working together to make sure that every dollar, every pound, every euro that is invested is really invested in the best possible way because we know the resources are less. We have to make sure that they are directed to long term solutions, to national systems, and to coordinated actions that really reassure voters, really reassure those that that provide the funding, that their funding and their assistance is used in the best possible way.
So we do less. We we do more with less resources, and we try to do it better in a more concentrated and a more efficient way.
So these are big, substantial cuts that have an impact. And that basically make it so that the negative coping strategies that are that have been mentioned by by my colleagues, unfortunately, also come back in these communities where we had to cut and and that were not able to assist any more. So as I was saying, 4 million less people that we can assist across the Sahel. So that's quite a that's quite an impact. And of course, it's very difficult to to face it. We face it with the prioritizing the resources and making sure that we have more impact on the most acute needs.
We do so also by working together as agencies. So with the UNHCR, which is here, we conduct joint assessments. We target the resources to the same refugees, the same IDPs, not only with the open ended and endless assistance, but with durable solutions based on vulnerability. And this is extremely important because it also helps us to reduce cost, to have cost efficiencies and coordination, and working together to make sure that every dollar, every pound, every euro that is invested is really invested in the best possible way because we know the resources are less. We have to make sure that they are directed to long term solutions, to national systems, and to coordinated actions that really reassure voters, really reassure those that that provide the funding, that their funding and their assistance is used in the best possible way.
So we do less. We we do more with less resources, and we try to do it better in a more concentrated and a more efficient way.
14:30
14:31
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
So difficult because I mean, we all live in the same situation and use local structures and UN entities. We are all, you know, confronted with the same challenge, even host countries as well, a country of origin, country of, you know, as I was explaining in the context of Syria, countries of return, countries of origin, countries, countries of destination. So it's a, it's a difficult moment for all of us. So I think this is where, as I was saying, this is not the time and the luxury for any one of us to work, you know, in isolation.
We really need to understand exactly what are the opportunities, what are the resources and what are the goals. And based on the trust, you know, and coordination and a very well coordination manner, how can we yield the impact of, you know, the reduced resources that we have? And as Mark was saying, I can just take, Mark, the example of Burkina Faso, where together with WFP, Unicef, we have set up what we call the emergency Response Team, where we join up together together with Ocha. In case there is a displacement quickly, we can, you know, mutualize and then respond to the needs.
So for us, we can't expect, you know, other entities or, you know, to, to come up and then, you know, take , take the shock. We are all living through the same realities. This is a difficult moment for the humanitarian community.
We really need to understand exactly what are the opportunities, what are the resources and what are the goals. And based on the trust, you know, and coordination and a very well coordination manner, how can we yield the impact of, you know, the reduced resources that we have? And as Mark was saying, I can just take, Mark, the example of Burkina Faso, where together with WFP, Unicef, we have set up what we call the emergency Response Team, where we join up together together with Ocha. In case there is a displacement quickly, we can, you know, mutualize and then respond to the needs.
So for us, we can't expect, you know, other entities or, you know, to, to come up and then, you know, take , take the shock. We are all living through the same realities. This is a difficult moment for the humanitarian community.
14:32
14:33
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Well, the coping mechanisms are can be quite severe. And one of them is is migration. So nobody wants to migrate from their communities if their livelihood is ensured. And if they have, you know, land to, to till if they have food to eat , when people don't have food, they don't have solutions to, to solve their problems, they need to pull the children out of school. They need to look for livelihoods elsewhere. They need to migrate. So that's one, one impact that of course, we are all concerned with. And that's one of the main coping strategies that unfortunately, people have have to take.
The other ones I mentioned is cutting on on their children's education, cutting on health expenses, cutting on investments. So sometimes the capitalizing meaning selling your goats, selling your seeds, consuming your seeds, so not being able to invest in your future anymore. And when you cannot invest in your future. Of course, life looks bleak and you need to look for a better life elsewhere. That's one of the drivers of displacement. That's one of the drivers of of food insecurity. And of course, with the medium and longer term trends of, of climate change, of El Nino, of conflicts of higher food prices and fuel prices.
The situation is not looking looking good, but there is also a, a hopeful solution, which is to make sure that the engagement of the UK and of the, of the donors remains, that the resources are pooled in the sense that successful programs and successful resilience solutions are the solution that the governments together convene and and decide where are the best investment for for their funding and where do they make the most impact? One important thing is the long term commitment. And to make sure that funding for these programs that are long term is there and is sustained.
This is essentially, if we want to have some of these gains that I was mentioning, because the intermittent funding that changes year to year, and that only gives, you know, temporary solution to problems is not going to solve the issue, especially if there is less. So really long term commitment. Join joining forces with the other members of the international community is absolutely essential. Thank you.
The other ones I mentioned is cutting on on their children's education, cutting on health expenses, cutting on investments. So sometimes the capitalizing meaning selling your goats, selling your seeds, consuming your seeds, so not being able to invest in your future anymore. And when you cannot invest in your future. Of course, life looks bleak and you need to look for a better life elsewhere. That's one of the drivers of displacement. That's one of the drivers of of food insecurity. And of course, with the medium and longer term trends of, of climate change, of El Nino, of conflicts of higher food prices and fuel prices.
The situation is not looking looking good, but there is also a, a hopeful solution, which is to make sure that the engagement of the UK and of the, of the donors remains, that the resources are pooled in the sense that successful programs and successful resilience solutions are the solution that the governments together convene and and decide where are the best investment for for their funding and where do they make the most impact? One important thing is the long term commitment. And to make sure that funding for these programs that are long term is there and is sustained.
This is essentially, if we want to have some of these gains that I was mentioning, because the intermittent funding that changes year to year, and that only gives, you know, temporary solution to problems is not going to solve the issue, especially if there is less. So really long term commitment. Join joining forces with the other members of the international community is absolutely essential. Thank you.
14:35
14:36
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yes, there are contingency plans for for El Nino and maybe one one thing that we should mention is that it's not only dry, dry spell and dry weather, it's also too much rain. And when the the land is not is not ready and is degraded, the rain, instead of being a a positive factor for the for the agricultural production becomes a danger. It creates. It creates floods. It washes away whatever remains of the of the fertile land that is there. So that's why this resilience and land restoration interventions are so essential in terms of El Nino contingency.
Yes, the contingency plans are there to assist more people, but the contingency plans also need to be funded. So. It will be there will be augmented intervention. But the augmented intervention can only take place if the funding is there to support it.
Yes, the contingency plans are there to assist more people, but the contingency plans also need to be funded. So. It will be there will be augmented intervention. But the augmented intervention can only take place if the funding is there to support it.
14:37
14:37
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
We we our contingency planning is is based on for instance, in Chad is is based on the displacement from from Sudan and also the displacement within Chad, especially in the lake region, where we have more than 250,000 internally displaced people, a. For us, once again, what is important is which role is the government playing in all this? You know, in putting together the contingency planning and this come to the shift that we are operating as well in the past, we will see all, you know, UN actors and NGOs sitting and working on a contingency planning without really the government leadership.
This has completely changed. The government is taking the lead. We are supporting them to finalize the content. This is exactly what we did for the Sudan situation. And the same thing for the for the IDPs, internally displaced people in the Lake region to make sure that the solution from the start is not only a language that we are speaking as as a UN agency or NGOs, but the government also is speaking the same language. How the displacement areas are targeted for government projects, for instance. So this is a conversation that we are we are having in, in in Chad and WFP, UNHCR, we are paying a very playing a very critical role in terms of resilience program in the eastern part through the initiative that we call a, a WFP, UNHCR, IOM joining together to make sure that, you know, the the lands that are degraded are regenerated and accessible for agriculture.
But once again, doing this means that we can't only rely on humanitarian fund. That is why we are doing our best and to make sure that all the key donors and the UK being one of the key donors, can also see the ability or the capacity to to use the development fund as well as the, the, the, the climate fund in those areas in order to expect that we can do, first of all, we can scale up all these initiatives and expect that we will have also, you know, tangible impact for, for more people. Because at the end of the day, what we want is what is to break the dependency on humanitarian aid and to be able to do it, we need to value all the capacities that refugees are coming, with all the capacities that IDPs have, and invest in those capacities so that they can take care of themselves in the in the future.
So we are also changing the model the way we are operating. But this can only be sustainable if, you know, humanitarian fund, development fund and climate fund also, you know, are accessible. Yes.
This has completely changed. The government is taking the lead. We are supporting them to finalize the content. This is exactly what we did for the Sudan situation. And the same thing for the for the IDPs, internally displaced people in the Lake region to make sure that the solution from the start is not only a language that we are speaking as as a UN agency or NGOs, but the government also is speaking the same language. How the displacement areas are targeted for government projects, for instance. So this is a conversation that we are we are having in, in in Chad and WFP, UNHCR, we are paying a very playing a very critical role in terms of resilience program in the eastern part through the initiative that we call a, a WFP, UNHCR, IOM joining together to make sure that, you know, the the lands that are degraded are regenerated and accessible for agriculture.
But once again, doing this means that we can't only rely on humanitarian fund. That is why we are doing our best and to make sure that all the key donors and the UK being one of the key donors, can also see the ability or the capacity to to use the development fund as well as the, the, the, the climate fund in those areas in order to expect that we can do, first of all, we can scale up all these initiatives and expect that we will have also, you know, tangible impact for, for more people. Because at the end of the day, what we want is what is to break the dependency on humanitarian aid and to be able to do it, we need to value all the capacities that refugees are coming, with all the capacities that IDPs have, and invest in those capacities so that they can take care of themselves in the in the future.
So we are also changing the model the way we are operating. But this can only be sustainable if, you know, humanitarian fund, development fund and climate fund also, you know, are accessible. Yes.
14:40
14:40
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
No. I can give you a concrete example. I remember when I was assuming this function of regional bureau director for Western Central Africa in Dakar. That was in July 2023, where the first days of, you know , of when I was assuming this function, we were hearing news about Refoulement at the border between Ghana, Cote d'Ivoire and Burkina Faso. Then there was also taking place in a very tense relationship between those countries. And you will recall the the shift between the three Sahelian countries and the regional economic body, Ecos. And then later, of course, they have created the Alliance des États du Sahel.
And as I was saying, the displacement pattern in the region, you see people being displaced first as IDP, then after as refugees, then they come back as returnee. If they don't find opportunity to settle what happened, they go again as IDP. Then they cross again as refugees. And if they are tired, then they decide maybe it's not worth staying here. I have to go. So for us, how do we address solution opportunities, improvement of the protection environment? We can only do it through humanitarian diplomacy and regional cooperation. And this is what we have done between the Sahelian countries and the Gulf of Guinea countries by engaging by, by, by establishing what we call the Lomé Dialogue, Lomé dialogue that has enabled us to invite all these countries in Lomé, countries like Burkina Faso, sitting in the same room, just like here with Cote d'Ivoire, with Togo, with Ghana, despite the political division, agree to discuss how best they can improve protection of the civilians, how best they can collaborate to maintain the minimum, you know, principle in terms of engagement with the civilian population.
And then I'm I'm proud to say after two, three years of sustained engagement with that humanitarian diplomacy, a month ago, we met again in Lomé, and we were able to sign a tripartite agreement between Burkina Faso, Togo, Burkina Faso, Benin, Burkina Faso, Ghana, Burkina Faso, Cote d'Ivoire. We were not able to sign because there are still some elements that we are dealing with. It's a process. We need to be patient and then hopefully that signature will take place before the end of the year. So that gives you, you know, the complexity that comes with the border engagement within a very complex, you know, political environment.
And as I was saying, the displacement pattern in the region, you see people being displaced first as IDP, then after as refugees, then they come back as returnee. If they don't find opportunity to settle what happened, they go again as IDP. Then they cross again as refugees. And if they are tired, then they decide maybe it's not worth staying here. I have to go. So for us, how do we address solution opportunities, improvement of the protection environment? We can only do it through humanitarian diplomacy and regional cooperation. And this is what we have done between the Sahelian countries and the Gulf of Guinea countries by engaging by, by, by establishing what we call the Lomé Dialogue, Lomé dialogue that has enabled us to invite all these countries in Lomé, countries like Burkina Faso, sitting in the same room, just like here with Cote d'Ivoire, with Togo, with Ghana, despite the political division, agree to discuss how best they can improve protection of the civilians, how best they can collaborate to maintain the minimum, you know, principle in terms of engagement with the civilian population.
And then I'm I'm proud to say after two, three years of sustained engagement with that humanitarian diplomacy, a month ago, we met again in Lomé, and we were able to sign a tripartite agreement between Burkina Faso, Togo, Burkina Faso, Benin, Burkina Faso, Ghana, Burkina Faso, Cote d'Ivoire. We were not able to sign because there are still some elements that we are dealing with. It's a process. We need to be patient and then hopefully that signature will take place before the end of the year. So that gives you, you know, the complexity that comes with the border engagement within a very complex, you know, political environment.
14:44
Sam Rushworth
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Sam Rushworth
Just to follow up that just just to test my understanding. What I'm hearing is obviously that there is conflict in the region, but that possibly one of the biggest drivers of, of displacement is actually people returning to discover that their home, their land is inhabited by somebody else, that they've got no livelihood to go back to, and therefore they're becoming displaced for a second or third time. Is that correct?
14:44
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
It's absolutely correct. That's why we say that return is not just a cross border movement. Return requires investments. Return requires people to have opportunity to have access to services. If children were in a displacement, but at least they were going to school, you ask them to go back and there is no school, so they won't stay. They will go. They will leave again. So how do we make all this return much more sustainable? It's through investment. So in the region, this is what we are trying to do with our partners like WFP, Unicef, others. Yeah.
Of course, understanding that with the reduced humanitarian resources that we are all confronted with, we need to create a space and opportunities for much more development opportunities, much more development, funding, financing, much more, you know, investment coming from the private sector. But we can't do it alone. And this is where I think that Efsi, the UK, is uniquely placed. When I see the way that you are engaged in chat with the government, with the UN system, with the NGOs, with the other, you know, donors. So I think we need that kind of capacity. And I also talk about the data.
So data will underpin the way that we understand all this pattern complexity so that we can come, we can all come together and and then understand how best can we push the pathway towards solution.
Of course, understanding that with the reduced humanitarian resources that we are all confronted with, we need to create a space and opportunities for much more development opportunities, much more development, funding, financing, much more, you know, investment coming from the private sector. But we can't do it alone. And this is where I think that Efsi, the UK, is uniquely placed. When I see the way that you are engaged in chat with the government, with the UN system, with the NGOs, with the other, you know, donors. So I think we need that kind of capacity. And I also talk about the data.
So data will underpin the way that we understand all this pattern complexity so that we can come, we can all come together and and then understand how best can we push the pathway towards solution.
14:46
Sam Rushworth
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Sam Rushworth
Is to some extent, then I guess that the challenges are around having robust enough legal systems, land registration, mediation between people that are in conflict at a local level and sort of departure from that question a little. How many forcibly displaced people do you estimate will attempt to then just leave the Sahel and travel to Europe?
14:46
14:46
14:46
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
To Libya. And then we have also some, you know, indication in terms of estimate how many Sudanese have also, you know, are left to Tunisia. I think that number has increased maybe 6 or 7 times. And then we know that there are some Sudanese in Chad who are also living and trying to transit through the Lake Chad reaching Agadez as well. And then last week, during the executive committee meeting with the Cameroonian authorities, they told us that they are now seeing Sudanese living Chad and coming to Cameroon as well.
So meaning.
So meaning.
14:47
14:47
14:47
14:47
14:48
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
I mean, if you look at some of the, the, the, the, the data that, you know, have been collected, you will have the impression that it's reducing. But actually, I would say the routes are just changing. The routes are dynamic. You know, if if there is more control on one route, then people will just look at, you know, other alternative. And by the time we catch up and then understand the data there, maybe it's it's too late, you see. So I'm saying that the only way we can address it as Mark was insisting on it, it is investment within local communities, giving opportunities in terms of job access to social services.
We can only do it if we work closely by aligning our intervention with the national priorities. Government leadership is key. We can't do it without governments. So how do we make it happen in those regions?
We can only do it if we work closely by aligning our intervention with the national priorities. Government leadership is key. We can't do it without governments. So how do we make it happen in those regions?
14:49
14:49
14:49
14:49
14:49
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
It's difficult to to give you an exact number, but the only thing I can say is the population of refugees in Chad has tripled. You know, it has tripled because before, I mean, the before the the ongoing conflict in Sudan, because the conflict is still ongoing. Unfortunately, we were talking about 400,000 Sudanese refugees, Sudanese, only Sudanese.
14:49
14:49
14:49
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
That's from 15 of April to date, 1.3 million. On top of that, we have the Central African refugees. We have the Nigerian refugees. All this bringing the number of refugees to 1.5 million. Yeah. But something that is very you know, that is important to highlight is the solidarity despite, you know, all the internal or domestic issue that Chad might have is the solidarity that in the generosity that the country, not only the government, but also the people, you know, are, are demonstrating, are showing a we I mean, I tell you a story, a less I've been here last year or this year in January.
And when our High Commissioner visited Chad, he met the, the, the head of state A in one of the issues that the head of state raised was we are afraid about. I mean, we we are very we know that there might be a spillover of the conflict, you know, from from Sudan to Chad. But no matter what will happen, we will not close our border. That was the message from the head of state. And for us, it's it's reassuring that despite all the situation, a Chad say the border will will still be open. And this we can say this has been translated concretely in the in the asylum.
And when our High Commissioner visited Chad, he met the, the, the head of state A in one of the issues that the head of state raised was we are afraid about. I mean, we we are very we know that there might be a spillover of the conflict, you know, from from Sudan to Chad. But no matter what will happen, we will not close our border. That was the message from the head of state. And for us, it's it's reassuring that despite all the situation, a Chad say the border will will still be open. And this we can say this has been translated concretely in the in the asylum.
14:51
14:51
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
Refugees. Thanks. No. Right now, what we we are working on together with authorities and all the UN agencies , is to, you know, prioritize three areas where inclusion should be effective. Three sectors water, health, education. There have been a lot of progress. But we need we need to do more. But Chad cannot do more alone. Chad will do more.
Thanks to, you know, the international solidarity. For instance, in for education, all the refugees, you know, are using Chadian schools. All the refugees are using Chadian curriculum.
Thanks to, you know, the international solidarity. For instance, in for education, all the refugees, you know, are using Chadian schools. All the refugees are using Chadian curriculum.
14:52
14:52
14:52
14:52
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
Even if the school is in a village or the school is in a camp, we have host community coming in the camp and using the same facilities. Yeah. So all the schools are recognized as Chadian schools. Yeah. A using Chadian curriculum using refugee teachers and Chadian teachers. Yeah. Because refugees come with a lot of capacities. And many teachers among the refugee community and using also the same a, a, the same teachers, the same curriculum. But the next level will be how the teachers, in order to make this inclusion effective, how the teachers are given, you know, a contract, not necessarily a civil servant, but on a contractual basis.
They are they are being paid by the by the by the Chadian government. This is another level. It's not. Yeah. Refugee teacher, it's not yet the case, but the the dialogue has started with the authorities to see how can this be effective? Yeah. You know, because the legislation is very conducive. But this has to be accompanied not only by us but also by by international law, international by the by the by the donors. The same thing for health. You know, the health centers, the same health centers are used by refugees and host communities. A water system.
They are they are being paid by the by the by the Chadian government. This is another level. It's not. Yeah. Refugee teacher, it's not yet the case, but the the dialogue has started with the authorities to see how can this be effective? Yeah. You know, because the legislation is very conducive. But this has to be accompanied not only by us but also by by international law, international by the by the by the donors. The same thing for health. You know, the health centers, the same health centers are used by refugees and host communities. A water system.
14:54
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
If we don't do that, it will create tension because without sharing, having one system, because the idea is to have one system for all. Yeah. If you have two parallel system, it will bring tension. Because don't forget that we are also in areas where some are. They have not been enough development investment thanks to humanitarian funding. We are putting services in place. But these services has to be, you know, has to benefit both refugees and host communities.
But the fundamental.
But the fundamental.
14:54
Sam Rushworth
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Sam Rushworth
Is there a sense that actually the community that's receiving refugees, because you're because you're choosing to integrate. And those refugees, by and large, as you say, they come with skills and talents and they are there working and serving. But actually the communities have benefited from having refugees living amongst them.
14:54
14:55
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
They can see the dividend of, of bringing refugees. But once again, this can only be sustainable if we invest in the system. Yeah. Not only we invest in individuals, we should invest in services in system so that the system is unique and invest also in the territories. Because you remember I was talking about the territorial shock that the influx is bringing. So how do we invest in territories to ensure that we are talking about one area? We are not talking about refugee camp, a village, but we are talking about one geographic unit where, you know, a.
There is connection between the city and the village, and there is a connection between the village and the and the camp. This is the this is the model we are promoting because. And this cannot be done only with the budgetary space from Chad, because this is a country that is hit by multiple crises, and I don't think they have enough budgetary space, you know, to to do this huge investment. That is why the international solidarity, you know, remains essential, so that the inclusion can be more efficient and effective, you know, for, for, for all the population.
There is connection between the city and the village, and there is a connection between the village and the and the camp. This is the this is the model we are promoting because. And this cannot be done only with the budgetary space from Chad, because this is a country that is hit by multiple crises, and I don't think they have enough budgetary space, you know, to to do this huge investment. That is why the international solidarity, you know, remains essential, so that the inclusion can be more efficient and effective, you know, for, for, for all the population.
14:56
Sam Rushworth
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Sam Rushworth
That sounds like an interesting model. Just, just, just a final question, if I may, chair, just, just wondering about the, the replicability of that model elsewhere. Because what you're what you're describing seems a relatively unique example of, of, of how to actually build a good relationship between host and refugee. Did you want to come in on that? No.
14:56
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
I mean, this is exactly what we are trying to do across the region with WFP, with Unicef, with our colleagues from DCO. Even even if I take the example of the Central Sahel, Mark, you will recall the Non-flagship that, you know, we have developed jointly with, you know, those those authorities, you know, it's about the energy, the food security system, the education system, the cross border, you know, dynamics and the nexus, you know, approach and the energy to name just a few of them. So this is exactly the same pattern. And this is why I think this is the only way where as a UN entities, we believe that, you know, we can demonstrate our added value in this complex environment.
We need to come together. We need to work together. We need to put our heads together and make sure that we understand where are the challenges, but opportunities. And as I was saying, one of the lever is the localisation agenda, working with the communities because they are the most, you know, impacted by all these situation. And then as we do it, ensuring that the government remains, you know, in the coordination and at the centre of this kind of initiative. This requires policy reforms. It requires a space for international financial institutions. And when we engage with African Development Bank, world Bank, it's not money coming to UNHCR, but money are put at the disposal of the authorities so that they have the required capacity to really invest in the long term.
You know, prospect, this is the only way how stabilization will become a reality in that region.
We need to come together. We need to work together. We need to put our heads together and make sure that we understand where are the challenges, but opportunities. And as I was saying, one of the lever is the localisation agenda, working with the communities because they are the most, you know, impacted by all these situation. And then as we do it, ensuring that the government remains, you know, in the coordination and at the centre of this kind of initiative. This requires policy reforms. It requires a space for international financial institutions. And when we engage with African Development Bank, world Bank, it's not money coming to UNHCR, but money are put at the disposal of the authorities so that they have the required capacity to really invest in the long term.
You know, prospect, this is the only way how stabilization will become a reality in that region.
14:58
14:58
Tracy Gilbert
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Tracy Gilbert
Thank you, Mr. Chair. A slight change of topic a little bit. I was going to move on to engagement with international actors. So I'll come to you first. Do countries such as China, Turkey and Russia approach development and humanitarian partnerships differently across the Sahel than Western nations do?
14:59
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
I can use an example of engagement with some of the countries that you just mentioned. In Central African Republic, I've seen this is the first time that China, for instance, has shown no interest in being part of what Patrice was describing as return herb or development herb. But through the private sector, you know, engagement, not money coming from from from the Foreign Office or, you know, development cooperation. So this is one of the concrete examples. I can see where China in the region has indicated, you know, that they can be, you know, part of that kind of private sector solution, you know, agenda.
14:59
14:59
15:00
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
No, I mean, you know, the today in those areas affected by by displacement or those areas also, you know, receiving forcibly displaced people. We already have development projects. We already have development projects, be it in infrastructure, roads, energy, telecommunication, to ensure that the environment is conducive, you know, for other partners to feel comfortable to invest in those areas. That is one thing. The second thing is in those displacement areas, the profile of the refugees or the IDPs, you know, encourage also to invest because they are not only recipient of humanitarian aid in there shouldn't be seen only as recipient of humanitarian aid, because these are people who come with a lot of capacities.
So how do we invest in those areas to maximize, you know, the potential that they have? A for instance, in Chad, we have in the in the refugee in the refugee community, a about 1000, you know, health workers. You know, doctors, midwives, nurses, more than 1000 lawyers who were working as, as lawyers in, in, in Sudan. And who needs opportunity? More than 2000 teachers and entrepreneurs. How do we support them to to register the business? So these areas should not only be seen as displacement areas, there should be seen as investment areas. How do we invest there?
And that is why. Yes. My question to you is my answer to you is yes, we should invest in those areas, helping refugees, you know, to value, first of all, the capacities, the competencies, helping them to to establish small businesses, to exercise as lawyers. And this is the only way they can contribute to the local economy, you know, as taxpayers and give back also to the community that have hosted them. And we can't do it without the private sector. And we need the private sector for, for, for such engagement so that the investment in the business model is well thought about.
So how do we invest in those areas to maximize, you know, the potential that they have? A for instance, in Chad, we have in the in the refugee in the refugee community, a about 1000, you know, health workers. You know, doctors, midwives, nurses, more than 1000 lawyers who were working as, as lawyers in, in, in Sudan. And who needs opportunity? More than 2000 teachers and entrepreneurs. How do we support them to to register the business? So these areas should not only be seen as displacement areas, there should be seen as investment areas. How do we invest there?
And that is why. Yes. My question to you is my answer to you is yes, we should invest in those areas, helping refugees, you know, to value, first of all, the capacities, the competencies, helping them to to establish small businesses, to exercise as lawyers. And this is the only way they can contribute to the local economy, you know, as taxpayers and give back also to the community that have hosted them. And we can't do it without the private sector. And we need the private sector for, for, for such engagement so that the investment in the business model is well thought about.
15:02
15:02
15:03
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
For us, it's clear that there is no development if there is no respect to human rights as well. So we can't separate, you know, development with the human rights. I mean, development should yield, you know, tangible results in the improvement of the enjoyment of the human rights of the individuals. So this is part of the conversation that we are having with most of, you know, the member states in the region that I'm covering. So we can't separate the two. And as a protection lead agency, the work that we do somehow contributes to improve, you know, the environment of the protection, meaning the environment for the people to really enjoy, you know, the human rights.
This is the work that we are doing as we engage with most of these governments in the region.
This is the work that we are doing as we engage with most of these governments in the region.
15:03
15:04
15:04
15:04
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
The UK has been. absolutely key and strategic in. supporting access. negotiations in the region in the Sahel region, by convening the other donors, other governments to make sure that we have continued access to to communities. This is also a important. When we speak about humanitarian access through Unhas, which is the common. humanitarian air services that WFP is managing and that supports the humanitarian community is in. In so many isolated .
15:04
15:04
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
That the UK has also been and can continue funding because access continues to be a challenge. That's one one point that I wanted to raise, and not only through funding, but also through engagement and humanitarian diplomacy and, and we really encourage the UK to continue playing that, that role. I also wanted to stress more on the on the social cohesion and absolutely the results that have already been outlined are there the. interventions in. resilience and the joint interventions, they do increase social cohesion. And one last point I wanted to make, which is important to to correct in a way, is that it's not a choice between.
humanitarian funding and development funding. Both are important humanitarian for the short term and the development and resilience for the longer term. So we're not advocating for one or the .
humanitarian funding and development funding. Both are important humanitarian for the short term and the development and resilience for the longer term. So we're not advocating for one or the .
15:05
15:05
15:05
Monica Harding
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Monica Harding
Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Can I, can I just come back on other actors, other state actors? So given the cuts from the US, from the UK, from Germany to aid in the Sahel, that's opened up a space which you talked of before, which Tracey was talking of where Russia and China might move in. Are you seeing that very deliberately? Are you seeing that in the work that you do and in .
15:06
Speaker 5
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Speaker 5
The countries in which you're working? Do. No. Not really. I mean, what I see is that member states are coming to us and then asking, how. collectively can we look for other financing opportunities? So they are not talking about, you know, funding, but financing opportunities. And this is through the dialogue example that I have just shared with you as of next year. These are the kind of, you know, conversation that we are going to have with those countries.
So what is key for them is the resilience of the.
So what is key for them is the resilience of the.
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Speaker 5
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Speaker 5
And then we also organize one in in in Central Africa. So that gives an indication that we are also trying to see how we can play a catalytic role as we support this government to look at, you know, the financing opportunity. Of course, when you have the world Bank, there is the, the, the, the windows for host. communities and the Ida, you know, for and that window for host communities and refugees, it is there with the African Development Bank, for instance, in Chad, they have been supporting us with some resilience funding as well. But we need to.
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Speaker 5
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Speaker 5
And increase, you know, such opportunity. I'm also happy to see that entities like Bmz in Chad are now, you know. financing some resilience activities. But these need to be put at scale across the region. It's not just one one country. As I was saying, displacement is regional. Displacement is comes with the cross border reality. And we need to make sure that as we save life, Mark, this is what you are saying.
As we save life, we don't forget the solution opportunity.
As we save life, we don't forget the solution opportunity.
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David Mundell
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David Mundell
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Speaker 6
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Speaker 6
You collect data and monitor what is what, what is happening? No thank you. We have, you know, a many set of data that, that we collect data for, for, to understand the population trend data we do it through through partners, local partners. We do that through local partners. We do that also through communities directly, refugees and host communities to understand really the trend of, of movement. But there is also a set of data that we collect directly to measure the. impact of the activities. We do it also through studies, through universities. And finally, a set of data we collect with the government, with the government.
And this is very key because the data we collect with the government, the idea is to make sure that this data is integrated in the government system, right? So that when the planning is being done by the government, they forcibly dispose population are not excluded. They are already in the data and using the government also a key, a criteria, and. ultimately is to have, for instance, the refugees and IDPs in the government social registry, because this is the the the way to make sure that all the safety, safety net programs that the government is. implementing can target.
And this is very key because the data we collect with the government, the idea is to make sure that this data is integrated in the government system, right? So that when the planning is being done by the government, they forcibly dispose population are not excluded. They are already in the data and using the government also a key, a criteria, and. ultimately is to have, for instance, the refugees and IDPs in the government social registry, because this is the the the way to make sure that all the safety, safety net programs that the government is. implementing can target.
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Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
Do you think there's something that could be done in that regard? Yes, absolutely. So we have a system called the IPC, which is the basically the. system that collects data on on food security. And this is done jointly with FAO. It's done jointly with the governments, with NGOs. There's a national. consensus that draws on the data that is collected in the field. And there is a a single set of drivers and an overall figure that comes out and is agreed upon by everybody, and then also including donors. So funding for this IPC. system is, is paramount because it really allows not only WFP, but everybody to really monitor the trend yearly and also according to the agricultural seasons.
So there's a series that can be used to to see how the trend is going. And also where the trend is, is going. It also allows to make predictions. And this is also has been done. If we look at the forecast for for the next months through agreement with UK funding actually. So there are funding windows that have been used to , to predict meteorological data. That allows us, for example, to understand what's the impact of El Nino in the next months. So there are systems that can be supported to make sure that we continue. monitoring .
So there's a series that can be used to to see how the trend is going. And also where the trend is, is going. It also allows to make predictions. And this is also has been done. If we look at the forecast for for the next months through agreement with UK funding actually. So there are funding windows that have been used to , to predict meteorological data. That allows us, for example, to understand what's the impact of El Nino in the next months. So there are systems that can be supported to make sure that we continue. monitoring .
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Speaker 5
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Speaker 5
You know, the. partnership and also move towards what I was referring as a solution pathway. So I think we can be proud of what we have done so far. And then we also have a center established with, with the world Bank that really help us to look at, you know, the socio economic data that could be. collected as we look at the inclusion within national plans. So I think, yeah, quite, you know, happy with what we have.
But .
But .
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David Mundell
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David Mundell
Have our regional covering those operations. Thank you. Well, I'll begin, Vanessa, by asking you about the fact that humanitarian access is increasingly constrained by both insecurity and government imposed restrictions. Which of you of these do you think presents the greatest practical obstacle to . delivering assistance.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
Incident of, you know, impeding access on, on the ground. What we see is that in Burkina Faso, for example, it is mostly. security that is impeding humanitarian access. Whereas in a country like Niger, it is actually bureaucratic and administrative impediments that are the primary cause of. challenges that are that actors on the ground are facing to to access people in need. In Mali, the the, the balance is a bit more even between the two countries.
The two type. categories of, of incidents.
The two type. categories of, of incidents.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
Is the Banque du Trésor. It's a rough translation would be Treasury Bank. We've been asked by the authorities to to put the money that's meant to support the humanitarian response, the the. projects within the the Treasury Bank. When we . What we see with this is this measure that does not necessarily at odds with humanitarian.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
We did not have access to to. liquidity quickly enough. We didn't see our payments being done quickly enough. So that slowed down the purchase of different items. We did not see the payments of humanitarian staff taking place quickly enough either. So that led to other significant challenges. And all of that slowed down the humanitarian response. In a context like Niger, the kind of challenges that we're facing is more the. authorization to, to, to access the ground that are delivered by the authorities there either slowed down for the most part, it's actually delays in providing those authorization.
But sometimes there we're also facing some some refusal in Niger. We also face some. And that's particularly our national NGOs that report those kind of, of, of challenges. It's with, you know, the, the. exemptions for, for the customs and so on. The, the. administrative process is too slow. And the documents that need to be. provided by the, the authorities are too slow. And so, so that also leads to some challenges for them to justify, you know, their expenses with, with the donors in Mali. A recent. example that has taken our attention has been, for example, the the.
10% taxes that the authorities wanted to, to impose on the on the. humanitarian response. It it required a lot of. conversation between the the authorities and the humanitarian community. And it led to an exemption that was provided by, by the authorities a few months back. I think what those examples tell us is that we're witnessing, definitely within the speech of the authorities and increase of their desire to express their sovereignty. They want to have more leadership on the on the humanitarian response. They want to have more. oversight on on the humanitarian response. And they want the humanitarian .
But sometimes there we're also facing some some refusal in Niger. We also face some. And that's particularly our national NGOs that report those kind of, of, of challenges. It's with, you know, the, the. exemptions for, for the customs and so on. The, the. administrative process is too slow. And the documents that need to be. provided by the, the authorities are too slow. And so, so that also leads to some challenges for them to justify, you know, their expenses with, with the donors in Mali. A recent. example that has taken our attention has been, for example, the the.
10% taxes that the authorities wanted to, to impose on the on the. humanitarian response. It it required a lot of. conversation between the the authorities and the humanitarian community. And it led to an exemption that was provided by, by the authorities a few months back. I think what those examples tell us is that we're witnessing, definitely within the speech of the authorities and increase of their desire to express their sovereignty. They want to have more leadership on the on the humanitarian response. They want to have more. oversight on on the humanitarian response. And they want the humanitarian .
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
Be more aligned with their national priorities. To be very clear, NGOs on the ground don't have any issues with sovereignty of states. We absolutely respect that. But the way the reforms are taken, the Or and being implemented, the measures that are adopted can lead to significant operational challenges on the ground. Just like as I described with the BDD, as we call it, the Bank of of the Treasury. This also teaches us something very important is that. dialogue is absolutely key to to keep continuing to keep the trust between the the actors. We need a sustained dialogue.
We need to build trust with those actors. We need to be solution. oriented and, and we need to, to, to be supported in, in building that, that trust and that dialogue space. Now you may ask, like, what does this mean for an actor such as the UK? I think what's the ways you could support us is by helping us to create that space, to give you a very specific example that will be coming very soon on the table.
You may be aware that the authorities of the Central Sahel, the.
We need to build trust with those actors. We need to be solution. oriented and, and we need to, to, to be supported in, in building that, that trust and that dialogue space. Now you may ask, like, what does this mean for an actor such as the UK? I think what's the ways you could support us is by helping us to create that space, to give you a very specific example that will be coming very soon on the table.
You may be aware that the authorities of the Central Sahel, the.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
Cross-border humanitarian responses. But we also see it equally important that we are part of the discussions, that we're being consulted in the process to set up those. policies so we can raise any concerns or any. suggestions to make sure that the humanitarian response is as as fluid and as effective as as possible. More generally speaking, I think humanitarian diplomacy is. definitely a way where an actor such as the UK could support us on the field. We need your support to keep the dialogue with the authorities to help resolve solutions. But there's maybe four points that I could share with you about the way this.
You mentioned diplomacy should be conducted, and this is based on a recent experience. First, we what we do see is that when you mention diplomacy conducted by, you know, diplomatic actors is is.
You mentioned diplomacy should be conducted, and this is based on a recent experience. First, we what we do see is that when you mention diplomacy conducted by, you know, diplomatic actors is is.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
It's more efficient when it's coordinated amongst them. A really recent example of that would be in Chad, for example, where the authorities also decided to put on the table this idea of they floated around, let's say it that way, this idea of putting a tax on on the humanitarian response, we received strong support from the donors. They put down on paper their position on that, and that shared it with the authorities, and they coordinated among themselves with their responses would be. And that was extremely helpful. Another point that we have to have in mind is that you mentioned diplomacy is the most effective when it's actually coordinated and discussed and grounded in the operational.
realities of the of the field actors. So what does that mean? It means that before your. representatives go to the field, before they engage with the.
realities of the of the field actors. So what does that mean? It means that before your. representatives go to the field, before they engage with the.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
You could have like conversation. pre-briefing with the the NGOs that are operating on the ground. You could have meeting with them when you meet, you could receive like reports from us to, to support your engagement with, with the authorities. The third thing that we have we've witnessed, we've observed is that. humanitarian policy is also diplomacy, excuse me, is also a most. efficient when it's it's driven and guided by humanitarian principles. And the third, the fourth point to keep in mind was you mentioned diplomacy, is that it's. It is helpful to have. humanitarian to have diplomatic actors supporting us.
But we have to keep in mind that the vast majority of access issues are actually resolved by. humanitarian actors operating themselves on the ground with, you know, they engage direct engagement with the different actors on the ground. And so what we need to do is to keep investing in the capacity to do so, and the collective capacity to do so as well, such as supporting the forums at country level. Thank you so much for for .
But we have to keep in mind that the vast majority of access issues are actually resolved by. humanitarian actors operating themselves on the ground with, you know, they engage direct engagement with the different actors on the ground. And so what we need to do is to keep investing in the capacity to do so, and the collective capacity to do so as well, such as supporting the forums at country level. Thank you so much for for .
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David Mundell
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David Mundell
That question, please let me know if I need to clarify any point, but the only point I wanted just to raise on that. But I mean, in terms of diplomatic, diplomatic actors in the wider sense, are there not other actors such as Russia and China, for example, who might want different outcomes and therefore their diplomatic actions with a the host .
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
From ours? It's an interesting question. So when an actor such as the fungi reaches out to different diplomatic actors across the world to support. We do assess how they can be supportive. And I don't have a specific response about China or about Russia, but we've identified other stakeholders across the region which you which we need their support. For example, Turkey. We do we do know that they are selling the drones to. They're probably not the only ones, but they're selling drones to to the authorities across the three central Sahel countries. Those drones are then used after for military.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
But they. represent an increasing. challenge for our teams on the ground. The. We. We are worried about the incidents, those that they can represent against the the humanitarian community, though it's a collateral damage and never a direct target. But we we are worried about that and we are worried as well for, you know, the the impact they can have, obviously, on the protection of civilians. So you mentioned diplomacy and engagement with stakeholders such as Turkey is absolutely. essential for us to to make sure that they are aware of the risk that, you know, when they sell those those.
warfare instruments, I think is the language to, to the authorities. They make sure that they put everything in place to safeguard the protection of the civilians and the aid workers on the ground. So I know it's not exactly the stakeholder you were aiming for, but it's just to say that when we. engage and we look at support, we also look at different set of stakeholders, not just the European ones. We also look at the diplomatic actors within the region. I think a really interesting lesson we took away from, you know, the political. transition in in Niger back in.
2023 was the the influence on access that actors such as ECOWAS or even Togo or Benin had on their capacity to, to respond on the ground. And so we do try to have engagement directly with them. Our relationship to date, I wouldn't say is as strong as what we have with an actor, such as the UK or the European Union, but we're definitely building those relationships with them. And I think that's also where you could have a role.
It's to help us build those relationships and promoting, you know, aisle with them and .
warfare instruments, I think is the language to, to the authorities. They make sure that they put everything in place to safeguard the protection of the civilians and the aid workers on the ground. So I know it's not exactly the stakeholder you were aiming for, but it's just to say that when we. engage and we look at support, we also look at different set of stakeholders, not just the European ones. We also look at the diplomatic actors within the region. I think a really interesting lesson we took away from, you know, the political. transition in in Niger back in.
2023 was the the influence on access that actors such as ECOWAS or even Togo or Benin had on their capacity to, to respond on the ground. And so we do try to have engagement directly with them. Our relationship to date, I wouldn't say is as strong as what we have with an actor, such as the UK or the European Union, but we're definitely building those relationships with them. And I think that's also where you could have a role.
It's to help us build those relationships and promoting, you know, aisle with them and .
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
Put aid workers at greater risk? Thank you very much. Thank you for this question. Yeah, it's quite it's quite a big question, actually. Definitely. Those activities are very. sensitive to the context in which we are. We we are operating the. I would say that. definitely we can connect the. implementation of a of some. stabilisation plan and a counter violence counter-terrorist activities in some areas. And the. difference we feel from the population or even from the authorities or the armed groups to the way the. They see us, the way they they accept us, the way they consider humanitarian workers.
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
Put at risk the humanitarian workers or the totality of our of our program in some cases. So I would say that definitely to to to answer to your question, the key point is really to ensure that those. programmes are made in a way that they preserve the neutrality, the. independence of, of humanitarian workers and Jamaican action in general. The . There is a clear need of. coordination for from those from those programs with the humanitarian actors to to make sure and to be able to assess the risk that one is generating for the other, although they are necessary in some context and can be part of a global solution, there's a need to make sure that the three operations can be implemented.
conjunctly otherwise to consider maybe those those .
conjunctly otherwise to consider maybe those those .
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
It's actually. It's actually a tough one. I think it's not so much about which one you should protect. It's more about which which approach you should adopt to, to keep, you know, supporting the humanitarian response in the country. And I think one guiding principle that we should have in mind is that the response must be needs based response. So how do we define the needs we need to have assessment that are. conducted in a independent manner on the ground to assess those needs, but also in a way that includes the communities that are directly impacted by the by, by the the conflict or the climate change.
And, you know, that results in humanitarian needs. We need them to be involved in identifying the needs. prioritizing the needs, and ideally into the design of the. response as well. So I think that's the key. principle to, to have in mind when, when you think about what should be preserved, it's an approach. I think what you need as well is to make sure that the kind of funding that you provide.
And, you know, that results in humanitarian needs. We need them to be involved in identifying the needs. prioritizing the needs, and ideally into the design of the. response as well. So I think that's the key. principle to, to have in mind when, when you think about what should be preserved, it's an approach. I think what you need as well is to make sure that the kind of funding that you provide.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
For the response, for the very simple fact that the needs that we assess today might not be the exact same as the needs that we will find on the ground tomorrow. When you have a displacement of thousands of people from one day to the next, the needs are obviously changing from one day to the next. So we need a flexible funding mechanism. We also need to have a funding mechanism that allows a. multi-sectoral response and a multi-year response. So we can address also some of the causes of the of the humanitarian needs and build the resilience of the, of the population for, for tomorrow.
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
But yeah, maybe you have some elements you would like to share on this as well. Yeah, maybe, maybe you, you. highlighted the principles to be respected in general, maybe a couple of words, more. specific dimension related to the cuts, of course, have been impacting a lot. The , the very vulnerable population, the most at risk groups in the society. So the, in addition to all the principles that Vanessa just shared, I would say that there's certainly a, an. importance for us to and for UK as well to, to focus on the IDPs, particularly in the remote and insecure areas, to keep focusing on the host communities.
There is a. particularity in in sale, either we speak about central sale or Chad is that we are having IDPs and refugees in host communities that are. potentially poorer than the people they host. It's very much the case in Chad and. And that could generate further. destabilisation around the the initial area of crisis. Women, girls, children have been extremely, extremely affected because of course, some programmes in some areas were totally cut. I'm speaking in. particular about the GBV, the gender based violence programming that have been in some areas totally, totally forgotten. So they need to be here as well, kept at the center of of the attention.
And definitely people with.
There is a. particularity in in sale, either we speak about central sale or Chad is that we are having IDPs and refugees in host communities that are. potentially poorer than the people they host. It's very much the case in Chad and. And that could generate further. destabilisation around the the initial area of crisis. Women, girls, children have been extremely, extremely affected because of course, some programmes in some areas were totally cut. I'm speaking in. particular about the GBV, the gender based violence programming that have been in some areas totally, totally forgotten. So they need to be here as well, kept at the center of of the attention.
And definitely people with.
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Monica Harding
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Monica Harding
Sustainable way. So definitely there's some attention to be paid there as well. Thank you. What are the the reductions in. international aid? How are they. affecting local civil society. organizations in the Sahel to deliver. services and respond to communities needs? So what is the. impact on the aid cuts on the work that .
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
With the impact it had on the on the I see I can if you if you want to start by the impact it had on our organization and if you want to share to, to share some elements in common with the, the other humanitarian organization in the region, we the impact has been has been extremely important and is still important. We, we. We feel it. We have been in the past two years , reducing our workforce worldwide by, by a quarter, by 25%. We have been in some areas cutting down some activities not on the base of the end of the needs, not on the ends of achieved.
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
We had to close down offices to, to and then to, because the access was pretty much connected to the proximity. And then to give up with the courage of some. geographies in Burkina Faso, in particular, in Mali as well. We we have been in the same time preparing ourselves to make sure that we could have a strong impact and continue to accompany the the key population we were we were engaged with in the last years. We did engage a lot in the localisation agenda. We hear very often that the. localisation is is very often going with a cost reduction, etcetera, etcetera.
Finally, what we saw mainly as a as a great interest, we were already involved in localisation before for some local acceptance and local. context analysis dimensions. But we found out since the cut, the cut that we were going faster on some. sustainability agenda with a local actors than than we would go without. So we have been working a lot on creating spaces for local actors, not spaces of funding only, but making sure that they were. participating more obviously to the humanitarian agenda, to humanitarian decision, to the programming and the design of our interventions. You certainly heard about the regional fund, the the that we created and are still hosting in DRC in the region and created a, in a in collaboration with Fcdo, the.
This fund is now serving some windows of funding. exclusively reserved for local actors in Central and Chad. Local organizations are member of the board, making sure a. Piloting the. Participating to the. coordination of the fund. So it's some of the the the the impacts that the cut had after. There is it has been, of course, what we use to call the prioritisation. I'm not very comfortable with speaking about prioritisation because the indirect message is always the same is that we have been letting down what was not priority. Priority, which is not the case. We have been making a.
prioritisation among choices that we did before that were already priorities because the the the region is extremely sensitive, a weak and exposed to to conflict, to climate change, displacement. We work also on the migration agenda, etc. so we have to make choices among among finally, elements that were from priorities. And the choices were very much driven by the way that the fundings are now a big part addressed to the humanitarian community.
We have already targeted.
Finally, what we saw mainly as a as a great interest, we were already involved in localisation before for some local acceptance and local. context analysis dimensions. But we found out since the cut, the cut that we were going faster on some. sustainability agenda with a local actors than than we would go without. So we have been working a lot on creating spaces for local actors, not spaces of funding only, but making sure that they were. participating more obviously to the humanitarian agenda, to humanitarian decision, to the programming and the design of our interventions. You certainly heard about the regional fund, the the that we created and are still hosting in DRC in the region and created a, in a in collaboration with Fcdo, the.
This fund is now serving some windows of funding. exclusively reserved for local actors in Central and Chad. Local organizations are member of the board, making sure a. Piloting the. Participating to the. coordination of the fund. So it's some of the the the the impacts that the cut had after. There is it has been, of course, what we use to call the prioritisation. I'm not very comfortable with speaking about prioritisation because the indirect message is always the same is that we have been letting down what was not priority. Priority, which is not the case. We have been making a.
prioritisation among choices that we did before that were already priorities because the the the region is extremely sensitive, a weak and exposed to to conflict, to climate change, displacement. We work also on the migration agenda, etc. so we have to make choices among among finally, elements that were from priorities. And the choices were very much driven by the way that the fundings are now a big part addressed to the humanitarian community.
We have already targeted.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
Targeted beneficiaries in the region. Thank you. Maybe beyond what what you just said as well. What came to my mind while you were talking was the impact in the in the protection sector and the, the local. organization that are engaged in the response, the, the community based organization. What was interesting to note shortly after the the massive and abrupt cut took place in.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
Is that local. organizations that had been trained had been empowered to provide a humanitarian response to address the protection needs of, including of women and girls on the field. We're in the first time still capable to to provide that response. But what was strongly impacted quite quickly was the referral mechanism towards the protection services provided by other stakeholders on the ground. A year down the road. The picture is is slightly evolving. I heard reports of, you know, the Women and girls organization, Women and girls led. organization in in countries such as Burkina Faso being particularly impacted by the by the funding cuts and in a more difficult position to to provide their, their response.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
If you look at the at the protection sector, a recent note that was published by the Regional. Protection Working Group that is based in Dakar that. identified a severe reduction of the amount of humanitarian workers that are engaged into the humanitarian response. I'm trying to look at the number for the Central Sahel, and what we've seen is that they had.
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
I think the regional fund. and it's not only a on my my voice bringing it. I would say that we had a we we had a lot of involvement from the . Together with us, the regional fund is is led, if you like, by a. collective of of several NGOs and NGOs together under the. presidency of one of them. So the the feedback we have from the assessments and the feedback we have from the partners is that the efficiency of the regional fund is, is really, really at a high level that the delays in, in dealing with some some calls and problems, the.
reactivity in front of some emerging. crisis I'm having in mind. The cholera one in in Chad, not such a long time ago, the way the good donorship principles that were. particularly committed to at the grand bargain are respected. So generally, I would say that we see a sale, a sale regional fund, extremely efficient on the way it. It takes care and is respond to the needs of the partners. International as a national. I see a response from that is extremely effective in in the in the trust building that Vanessa was mentioning with the. authorities in this part of the world, there is a co-ownership that is maybe from from the different government we see in Niger and Burkina.
We are very often extremely surprised to see the interest that that that those administration are are positioning on the on the said regional fund . And the efficiency in terms of immediate financial numbers is that the the sale regional fund is, is, is functioning, if you like, with , with. 12% only management cost, which is extremely, extremely limited in the industry. So the, the part of the funding going directly for implementation is, is high. The efficiency is can be considered as a, as. definitely a there as well. And then I would, I would say that there is also a second secondary effect in terms of efficiency of the .
The original fund. The secondary effect is to to enrich and to bring more. diversity in the segment of the. The pool forms the. The fact that in some areas you have more than one pool fund operating. And that it generates some.
reactivity in front of some emerging. crisis I'm having in mind. The cholera one in in Chad, not such a long time ago, the way the good donorship principles that were. particularly committed to at the grand bargain are respected. So generally, I would say that we see a sale, a sale regional fund, extremely efficient on the way it. It takes care and is respond to the needs of the partners. International as a national. I see a response from that is extremely effective in in the in the trust building that Vanessa was mentioning with the. authorities in this part of the world, there is a co-ownership that is maybe from from the different government we see in Niger and Burkina.
We are very often extremely surprised to see the interest that that that those administration are are positioning on the on the said regional fund . And the efficiency in terms of immediate financial numbers is that the the sale regional fund is, is, is functioning, if you like, with , with. 12% only management cost, which is extremely, extremely limited in the industry. So the, the part of the funding going directly for implementation is, is high. The efficiency is can be considered as a, as. definitely a there as well. And then I would, I would say that there is also a second secondary effect in terms of efficiency of the .
The original fund. The secondary effect is to to enrich and to bring more. diversity in the segment of the. The pool forms the. The fact that in some areas you have more than one pool fund operating. And that it generates some.
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
That it generates some some common interest, some exchanges, some joint learning learning. processes makes, of course, that the the. performance of all the, the, the pool funds are, are increased. So in terms of indirect efficiency, I would, I would keep in mind the fact that this regional fund being a new, not such a new player because now it's 4 or 5 years that it does exist. But being a new, a new kind of.
architecture brick in the, in the funding landscape, if you like the, the, the, the generates a lot .
architecture brick in the, in the funding landscape, if you like the, the, the, the generates a lot .
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
Draw from this model of delivery? Yes, definitely 90%, as you said, which is very high. And and we are we are extremely satisfied with that. I would say that there are certainly some good lessons that Fcdo can take, and I I'm sure that the team in Dakar are already took note of some of them. The CIF is providing a real. evidence that locally that action can be scaled. responsibly when accompanied by a strong governance and an appropriate risk sharing. So that is the. demonstration that that the definitely we can do the the SRF is, is.
demonstrating that the the early implication of local actors in the funding. mechanism is possible. And that actually it can provide a lot of.
demonstrating that the the early implication of local actors in the funding. mechanism is possible. And that actually it can provide a lot of.
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Sam Rushworth
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Sam Rushworth
Regional space and forum to express themselves. Thank you. Now you moved on actually to, to, to where I was going to move the conversation already. So, so well done. Which is around the. 25% of the fund that that supports local partners, which in context, such as the Sahel is obviously really important because they have a reach beyond where many of the sort of larger international NGOs are able to reach. Vanessa, I'll ask you this question, sort of how meaningful do you think that that. transfer of power is in practice? So the use of the the use of the fund to support local actors, if are you seeing any kind of practice based examples of where of where that funding is, is both able to, I suppose, use grassroots.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
Thank you. We actually see the SRF as an essential tool to, to meet, you know, the engagement of the grand bargain, but also to meet the engagement of Tom Fletcher within the humanitarian reset. You know, where he says that the response should be as local as possible and as international as needed. A tool such as SRF provides the. opportunity for for fixing the money the way it goes. It . It helps local actors to have not only a word to say within the governance, the way it is, the system, the mechanism, the fund is. identifying the needs, setting the priorities and designing the response.
But it also helps them beyond that to to build their own.
But it also helps them beyond that to to build their own.
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
To provide, you know, the mentoring that they need to, to keep responding. And beyond the 25%. I think one element that's really important is the 7% of support costs that are cascaded to the, the national partners on, on the ground. This is absolutely essential because we tend to think that because we go local, it's going to be cheaper. But the reality on the field is that local. organizations also need support costs. They need to have offices, they need to have access to internet. They need to have, you know. security management framework to provide, you know, to, to, to the security of their own staff.
ET cetera. ET cetera. So I think this, this system is absolutely essential. The beauty of it as well beyond the, the main envelope is, is the catalytic catalytic envelopes that are available and that allow to, to fund, you know, NGO forums on the, on the ground and, and the collective engagement, you know, that they have, but also the way that it provides funding for. innovations such as the barometer, for example, it is a project that was led from the, from the region level. And that allows us to. It is a tool that allows us to assess the progress that we've made on the localisation agenda since the.
The Grand Bargain was adopted .
ET cetera. ET cetera. So I think this, this system is absolutely essential. The beauty of it as well beyond the, the main envelope is, is the catalytic catalytic envelopes that are available and that allow to, to fund, you know, NGO forums on the, on the ground and, and the collective engagement, you know, that they have, but also the way that it provides funding for. innovations such as the barometer, for example, it is a project that was led from the, from the region level. And that allows us to. It is a tool that allows us to assess the progress that we've made on the localisation agenda since the.
The Grand Bargain was adopted .
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Sam Rushworth
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Sam Rushworth
Yes. Do you want to just sort of shorten them, I think okay. Yeah. So just just quick answer on these because because we've got some other important questions to ask. I think I'm going to jump straight to 20 actually. So the fund operates across Niger, Mali, Burkina Faso and Chad. But displacement, food insecurity and conflict often cross. national borders. So how effectively does the regional model address these cross-border challenges?
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
Element to your previous question. Indeed. 25% of the SRF are dedicated to the local window and can be accessed directly by local actors, but the. international window is as well, aiming at consortia that have national partners inside. So they can bring with us some organizations that are big, a bit less strong, if you like to, to, to benefit from a, from some experience and start to build that capacity. And if you put all in all together, it's, it's almost a third of the SRF that ends up being operationalized by local actors. So it's 25 directly plus the indirect part through to international consortia.
33, 30.
33, 30.
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
Coming back to to your question, the how it does operate, it was really a key element of when the SRF board, the SF board , at the time of the sum that was created. Five years ago, and that called for a regional response to a regional crisis, and that at the end, we could set up only some country based funds that were looking at the crisis one by one. So we thought that having a regional solution would be really a.
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
Enabling some more agile as well. Evolution of the funding from one country to the to to the other one, depending on the evolution of the crisis and taking into consideration as well, the fact that the access in cell has never been totally lost. So there are some areas that are not accessible during certain time, but some others are, and they want that we are not accessible before becoming back accessible. And and the staff proved to be a good tool as well for, for consortium to manage that and to be able to, to. focus in another area while an area was not accessible and focus back on it.
So do the PSF has been really. enhancing this, this regional approach, having a regional fund management unit. So the SF is managed at the regional level, taking into account regional call, but at the same time is totally embedded in the in the national context. And, and, and requirements. So the, the very local. particularities are taken into account. consolidated at the regional. What is very interesting is that the SRF promotes regional advocacy, which is in many. countries of the region, the only way to really. realize some advocacy. The SRF, through its regional coordination, generates as well some spaces for lessons learned and with international and with national actors.
So do the PSF has been really. enhancing this, this regional approach, having a regional fund management unit. So the SF is managed at the regional level, taking into account regional call, but at the same time is totally embedded in the in the national context. And, and, and requirements. So the, the very local. particularities are taken into account. consolidated at the regional. What is very interesting is that the SRF promotes regional advocacy, which is in many. countries of the region, the only way to really. realize some advocacy. The SRF, through its regional coordination, generates as well some spaces for lessons learned and with international and with national actors.
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
To Jan first on this? Yes, of course, as I mentioned previously, the funding cuts have been seen in some regions in sale impacting a lot gender based violence program. So all two women and girls are among the most. vulnerable and most at risk, according to our Risk. assessment protection risk assessment. Really the the person we need to focus on having a geographic logic, a geographic approach with the remaining funds is not always taking care of all the needs all across the board. So to be very honest, there are some regions today in sale where actually women and girls that are at risk are not benefiting from the support.
They should be benefiting and that they were benefiting before the the there have been they have been somehow the, the forgotten elements in the so-called. prioritization exercise that we had to do to, to focus our existing in elsewhere. So the impact, the impact is huge. The support to women led. organization is probably less visible in sale today than it is in some other regions of the world, or to. We know very well that the. conditions of living and even the global indicators of the index, if you like, are showing it the the condition of of living, of women and girls in sale are among the the most difficult currently and for years in the region.
So that that's a key issue for, for us, we keep them. systematically at the heart of the, the protection risk analysis that that we. implement locally, we keep. When it comes to the SRF gender based violence. programs are very. important in the areas where we. We publish the call and we keep as well. You know, we we have some protection monitoring activities around the region where we monitor the cases of people denied from their rights or victims from violence. And we, we don't do protection monitoring alone. We usually do it systematically with some response attached to individual protection or assistance that we provide.
So all women and girls that we meet along our programs that are victim of gender based violence or other type of rights denial,
They should be benefiting and that they were benefiting before the the there have been they have been somehow the, the forgotten elements in the so-called. prioritization exercise that we had to do to, to focus our existing in elsewhere. So the impact, the impact is huge. The support to women led. organization is probably less visible in sale today than it is in some other regions of the world, or to. We know very well that the. conditions of living and even the global indicators of the index, if you like, are showing it the the condition of of living, of women and girls in sale are among the the most difficult currently and for years in the region.
So that that's a key issue for, for us, we keep them. systematically at the heart of the, the protection risk analysis that that we. implement locally, we keep. When it comes to the SRF gender based violence. programs are very. important in the areas where we. We publish the call and we keep as well. You know, we we have some protection monitoring activities around the region where we monitor the cases of people denied from their rights or victims from violence. And we, we don't do protection monitoring alone. We usually do it systematically with some response attached to individual protection or assistance that we provide.
So all women and girls that we meet along our programs that are victim of gender based violence or other type of rights denial,
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Speaker 8
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Speaker 8
And thank you. Vanessa. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Just maybe to complete on a quick point, the response provided by UN, the protection monitoring system is one of the the severe impacts that we've seen from the the funding cuts last year. The monitoring system is clearly jeopardized. And we have increasing difficulty in monitoring, you know, the the needs and in the on the field.
So if an investment needs to be made and something needs to be.
So if an investment needs to be made and something needs to be.
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
I'm sorry, that might be more for Yan, actually. Sorry. We we can go both I can start and if you if you want to compliment the. Just to say that actually that's really a key issue . And the, the, the fact that we, we have an assistance that is getting reduced worldwide is, is bringing most of all to consider and to declare that a life saving is essential. And it's true that life saving is essential. And we want to keep all the life saving elements as a priority and use the funds we have for that. The point, and that's very sensitive when it comes to, to, to girls and women.
And you highlight the access to education, but even before all the conditions before accessing to the education in proper.
And you highlight the access to education, but even before all the conditions before accessing to the education in proper.
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Tracy Gilbert
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Tracy Gilbert
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
Fine, whichever one you think. How it is affecting, I can share with you, and I'm sure Vanessa, you have that in mind as well. I can share with you that last week we, we had. communicated for for Burkina Faso, only the list of ten local organizations that are closing down due to the to the funding cuts. So we, we have a lot of small organizations that were extremely. instrumental on the way we were answering to, to some of those issues. And women's organization are among those organizations that are usually. unserved by, by, by those funding that are closing, losing, losing their premises, losing dynamics.
So this is really the way it is directly affecting a second way of direct.
So this is really the way it is directly affecting a second way of direct.
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
On those programming is the fact that we have much less front line staff than we used to have. So the. detection in some communities were actually those programs might be might be not considered as problems. So obvious or priority one, we have much more less front line staff and, and, and volunteers from our from our partners as well, going from village to village. So .
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Speaker 9
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Speaker 9
Share, so I don't know if you do. Yan. Okay. Yeah, maybe you the question if I understood the question, the. If the idea is to see how. How do we address human rights violation and what is the response? We can we can bring across our programming and in central sale, I would say that most of them, when they are. identified and they are taken in charge by the teams of DRC or the partners of DRC or the partners of the regional fund, most of them are referred and dealt with with the authorities. And that is usually the the the way it goes.
And basically, I know that very often the question of human rights is needed to be dealt at the central level. And, and we need a central commitment. But when it comes to individual cases, most of the time we did it with the local authorities at the very local level where where the violation occurred. And the response is very often provided by the technical the technical.
And basically, I know that very often the question of human rights is needed to be dealt at the central level. And, and we need a central commitment. But when it comes to individual cases, most of the time we did it with the local authorities at the very local level where where the violation occurred. And the response is very often provided by the technical the technical.
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