Wednesday 22nd January 2025

(1 day, 5 hours ago)

Lords Chamber
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Lord Purvis of Tweed Portrait Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
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My Lords, I agree with the noble Earl that this is an incredibly fragile situation, and I acknowledge the caution in the Foreign Secretary’s remarks and tone in the House of Commons last week. It is fundamentally a cessation of hostilities rather than a peace agreement, and there is still a very high level of uncertainty in many areas for the days and weeks ahead.

I also wish to put on record the work of the intelligence services of Qatar, the USA, Egypt and Israel. It was noted that, until fairly recently, Prime Minister Netanyahu refused diplomatic negotiations; it was all led by the intelligence services. However the agreement was made, we all hope that it will be sustainable.

I also share the noble Earl’s welcome for the fact that many families are now being reunited with the hostages. It is a tragedy that many families are waiting for the bodies of hostages, rather than live hostages. Hamas should never be forgiven for their actions.

There will be many in Israeli society who were shocked at the armed al-Qassam Brigades being very visible on the streets. Many had assumed that, as a result of the IDF’s actions, Hamas was removed, but it still looks as though it is very present. Does the Minister agree with the previous US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, in his assessment, which he made public, that Hamas has recruited the same number of fighters today as it has lost? What is the Government’s assessment of the current standing of Hamas, and how will that have an impact on any relationship with Fatah and the PLO in the Palestinian Authority?

On reconstruction, the needs are enormous. I will not repeat the question I asked the Minister in Oral Questions some minutes ago; I will just put on record that I agree with everything he said in response. I hope that the Government will find a way of ensuring that education for children in the region is at the top of our priorities. One of the consequences of conflict is that it is often the next generation that is more radicalised than the previous one. Given the scale of the conflict in Gaza, we all fully understand that, without interventions now in relation to child trauma, psychosocial support and education support, there will be potential threats and danger in the future.

On the situation in the West Bank, what is the Government’s assessment of the report of concessions that the Israeli Prime Minister gave to the remainder of the extreme right wing in his Cabinet? According to those reports, while there could be support for the agreement on Gaza, there are now to be far more IDF and Israeli actions in the West Bank—leading to full annexation, as one continuing Minister in the Israeli Government said. Will the Minister state that that is unacceptable to the UK Government? Will he put on record that we will not follow the new Trump Administration in removing the sanctions that were put in place on the settlers for the violence that they had carried out against innocent communities in their own home areas? Will the Government also take the opportunity to reject the fact that the United States has reinstated supply of the Israeli Government with 2,000-pound bombs, which can bring about only mass destruction of community areas?

On the longer term, does the Minister recognise that my noble friend Lady Northover’s Private Member’s Bill, which we will now debate on 14 March, is an opportunity for us to consider the validity of a two-state solution and the need for the recognition of a state of Palestine? If there is to be diplomatic work on both reconstruction and some form of political way forward, the viability of a Palestinian state needs to be in place.

Finally, I acknowledge that the Government have increased support for the Palestinian Authority, as the Foreign Secretary has indicated. However, our support is still way below the level before the 2018 aid cuts. What is the Government’s intent in respect of replenishing the humanitarian reserve so that we can provide extra support and restore fully the level of governance support to the Palestinian Authority that we provided before the previous Government cut ODA from 0.7%?

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Collins of Highbury) (Lab)
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I thank both noble Lords for their questions and contributions. As the noble Earl, Lord Courtown, repeated, this is a fragile situation. The deal is incredibly fragile, so we have to do everything possible to ensure that we can build confidence on all sides to help sustain the ceasefire and move it from phase 1 to phase 3 and into a lasting peace. It is important to turn this deal into a political process that leads us to the two-state solution. That is the only way to ensure, in the longer term, peace and security for both Palestinians and Israelis.

I join the noble Earl in welcoming the release of the three hostages in Gaza, including, of course, British national Emily Damari. I too place on record our thanks to Qatar, Egypt and the US for their support in bringing these individuals’ and their families’ horrific ordeal to an end. Our thoughts are also with those still waiting to be reunited with their loved ones, including the families of United Kingdom-linked hostages Eli Sharabi, Oded Lifshitz and Avinatan Or—three people who should be reunited with their families.

I shall focus on how we build the future and stability. For the deal to work, parties need to co-operate to make sure that the ceasefire lasts and moves towards a lasting peace. Planning for governance, security and reconstruction must be predicated on progress towards a Palestinian state, with Gaza and the West Bank united under one Government, and the Palestinian Authority must play a key role. The security arrangements must protect both Israelis and Palestinians and, as we heard in the previous Question, allow the safe distribution of aid. We will continue to work with Israel, the Palestinian Authority, the US and regional partners, including Arab and Gulf states, to build consensus for a post-conflict Gaza governance and security framework that supports the conditions for a more lasting and secure peace. Stability in the West Bank is crucial to ensure that the fragile ceasefire in Gaza can last. All sides should work to ensure a lowering of tension in the West Bank at this time.

On Palestinian statehood and support for Palestinian reform, as the noble Lord said, the Foreign Secretary has spoken with President Abbas and the Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority, Mohammad Mustafa, and offered the United Kingdom’s support as his Government implement much-needed reforms. An effective PA is vital for lasting peace and progress towards a two-state solution. Our long-standing position has been that we will recognise the Palestinian state at a time that is most conducive to that process—not the end but as part of that process. We remain absolutely committed to that.

As I say, this ceasefire provides an opportunity to get aid in—and we have heard that just under 1,000 trucks got in in one day last week. We need to ensure that that continues. I shall not repeat what I said in response to the Oral Question. We have given the funding and, as the noble Lord said, we need to focus on medical and educational support. Obviously, the longer-term rebuilding of Gaza needs a much bigger investment. In addition to the £112 million, we have matched up to £10 million of public donations—we should not forget that. The United Kingdom public have been absolutely concerned, and they have matched their concern with money through the Disasters Emergency Committee Middle East humanitarian appeal, which has provided life-saving aid, including medical supplies, shelter and clean water, to people in the West Bank.

We have to ensure that the process delivers that longer-term building of confidence and dialogue. I was concerned when I read in the Guardian this morning about increased levels of violence in the West Bank. As the noble Lord pointed out, we have moved to sanction those responsible for violence in the West Bank and announced designations against eight extremist Israeli settlers and nine entities known to have supported, incited and promoted violence against Palestinian communities. We will not hesitate to take further action if it is needed. The UK is deeply concerned by IDF military operations in the occupied West Bank.

Lord Austin of Dudley Portrait Lord Austin of Dudley (Non-Afl)
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My Lords, one of the tragedies of Gaza has been that aid has been looted by the corrupt, murderous gangsters of Hamas, and that money and materials that should have been used to build hospitals, schools and housing have been used instead to pay for weapons and to build tunnels from which to attack Israel. What are the Government going to do to prevent aid that they give in future being stolen and abused like this?

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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I tried to answer that in the Oral Question. This is an obligation on the Palestinian Authority. We have been supporting the Palestinian Authority security services through training. We have also urged the Israeli Government and the IDF to protect the distribution of humanitarian aid to ensure that it reaches those people who need it. We are absolutely determined to work with all parties to ensure the effective distribution of humanitarian aid—it is vital that it gets to the people who need it most.

Lord Harries of Pentregarth Portrait Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB)
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Following the noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, I shall focus briefly on what is happening in the West Bank, which is a potential conflagration. We know that Hamas is represented there, and it can become only more embittered if settler attacks on Palestinian villages continue. It was good to hear the Minister say that the British Government are going to maintain sanctions against settlers who attack those villages. As we know, President Trump has said that he is no longer going to keep up those sanctions. Will the Minister encourage the Government to make it perfectly clear, publicly, that we are going to continue to maintain those sanctions?

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Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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I must admit I thought I had made it clear that we will maintain those sanctions. We are extremely concerned at the increased level of violence, and we have conveyed this to the Israeli Government. The ceasefire is fragile, and we need to build confidence. The noble and right reverend Lord is absolutely right that such confidence relates not only to Gaza but to all the Occupied Palestinian Territories. We are committed to ensuring that this fragile ceasefire and peace process moves towards a more sustainable, long-lasting peace, which requires a two-state solution. That is what we are committed to, and so are the United States Government. We need to focus on that; where we have common support, we need to ensure that we work together. President Trump has been working with the Saudis to ensure that they can come into the process of the Abraham accords. The Saudis want to see a two-state solution, and that is what we are all working towards.

Viscount Hailsham Portrait Viscount Hailsham (Con)
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Does the Minister agree that if, at the end of the initial period, Israel renews the war in Gaza, as is called for by some right-wing Members of the Government, such action, without clear, obvious and compelling justification, will do immense damage to the international standing of Israel and to its moral reputation?

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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I am not going to speculate on what might happen. The point I would make is one that was made by the noble Earl, Lord Courtown. We are in a fragile situation. We have a ceasefire, which we have been demanding for many months, and now that we have it we need to ensure that, during this fragile process, we build confidence for the future. That means taking a step-by-step approach, with all parties, and not looking backwards at the horrors of the past but to the future, with hope for prosperity.

Lord Bishop of Manchester Portrait The Lord Bishop of Manchester
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My Lords, I declare my interest as chair of the United Society Partners in the Gospel, one of the oldest Anglican global mission agencies. One of our key partners is the al-Ahli hospital in northern Gaza, a hospital that the people of that area rely on pretty well entirely now for any healthcare they can get. Most of the hospital has been destroyed—both the library and the historic church are now in use as wards. What assurances can the Minister give us about how we can get aid into the hospital, so that the people of northern Gaza, no matter how long the ceasefire lasts —I hope it will become permanent, but for the time being—will be able to get the medical help they need? Over 1,000 emergency patients are being admitted every day.

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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I agree with the right reverend Prelate. As I said in response to the Oral Question, we are very much focused on getting medical aid and support in, particularly to northern Gaza. I mentioned the £5.5 million in funding for UK-Med to run field hospitals in Gaza. We focus on all the areas where there is most need, but I agree with the right reverend Prelate that we need to do more to ensure that those who need medical treatment get it speedily.

Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee Portrait Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)
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My Lords, we all hope for a permanent ceasefire; that is the wish of everybody in this House. At the end of the Statement, thoughts turn to reconstruction and the need for the international community to deliver the funds for that reconstruction. Given that it has been recently reported by Forbes that Hamas is the second-richest terrorist organisation in the world, can this Government not find a way to capture some of that money, so that we can put it towards reconstruction in Gaza?

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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One thing is clear: there is no role for Hamas in the future. That means that we have to work with all parties, particularly those in the region. I mentioned before that we continue to work with Israel, the Palestinian Authority, the United States and regional partners, including Arab and Gulf states, to build a consensus for a post-conflict Gaza governance and security framework that supports the conditions for a permanent and sustainable peace. We are prepared to convene partners and to help lead efforts to ensure that there is international and regional support for security, governance, recovery and reconstruction. It is vital that the whole of the region pulls together, and I am pretty confident that we will be able to do that. I hear what the noble Baroness says about Hamas; there can be no role for an organisation that has committed such horrific crimes.

Lord Stevens of Birmingham Portrait Lord Stevens of Birmingham (CB)
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Given that the Minister has rightly said that there can be no role for Hamas, has he seen the well-sourced reports from independent news agencies—such as the one from Reuters today—showing that, as we speak, it is Hamas thugs who are controlling the distribution of international humanitarian aid in north Gaza, as well as controlling the movement of the long-suffering Gazans themselves? How can Gaza be reconstructed and peace be secured while, in practice, Hamas appears to still be in control?

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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The important thing is that we are working with the Israeli Government and the Palestinian Authority to focus on the security issues the noble Lord points to. That is why we are supporting the Palestinian Authority in its security mechanisms. The Israeli Government also have a duty to ensure that there is proper distribution of that aid, to northern Gaza in particular. It is pretty obvious that the situation is quite fragile, as was seen by the evidence of the release of hostages, but we are absolutely committed. The solution lies in ensuring that the Palestinian Authority has the ability to conduct its security operations.

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Portrait Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
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My Lords, I welcome the tone and substance from the Minister and both Front Benches, which reflects the unity of purpose in your Lordships’ House. While I agree with much of what has been said, we must engage directly on the importance of the “day after”, because it is here and now. That means grasping the plans which already exist and building on the framework of the Abraham accords and the three Arab states, including Egypt and Jordan, which are at peace with Israel. We have initiatives, such as the Arab peace initiative and more recently the plan put forward by former Prime Minister Olmert and former Foreign Minister of the PA, Nasser al-Kidwa. These plans exist; they are incremental and structured. Surely we can ensure that the UK Government play their part in the process which is needed now and which runs in parallel with the long-term objective of ensuring that a two-state solution is delivered.

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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The noble Lord is absolutely right; there are these plans and discussions, which we need, and the United Kingdom is happy to convene whatever meetings we possibly can. Working with the United States, the Israeli Government, the Palestinian Authority and in particular the Gulf and Arab states together is the way forward to ensuring that there is sustainable peace that delivers security for the people of Israel and Palestine. That is what we are all seeking and the noble Lord is right that we need to bring together all these initiatives that show real commitment to peace.

Baroness Goudie Portrait Baroness Goudie (Lab)
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My Lords, we are pleased to be at the stage of peacebuilding. Does the Minister agree that it is important that local women are involved at every level and at every peace table? It is local women who know what is required. They know how the buildings need to be rebuilt, they know about schools and they know that they do not want children to be taught in tents. They want to have proper, safe schools built and the opportunities, if possible, for further education, not necessarily in Gaza but close by when it comes to universities and other forms of education.

There is also the question of health. If we do not have proper hospitals brought into areas, there is no hope for maternal health and for cancer patients and other patients. So, we ought to agree now with everybody that women have to be at every peace table, because without that we are not going to get real peace. We have seen what happened in Northern Ireland. It is still the women of Northern Ireland who are keeping the peace going. So, I would like the Minister to give an undertaking on this and to come back on where those of us who are involved in this House can be of assistance.

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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The noble Baroness is absolutely right. We have both been engaged in focusing on the women, peace, and security agenda, which the noble Baroness, Lady Hodgson, has been so committed to, and I am glad to see her in her place. What I tried to convey in my response to the Oral Question was the role in terms of reconstruction of civil society and, as my noble friend points out, women can be an absolutely critical part of that reconstruction and peacebuilding. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, raised the question of focusing on children and education in particular, but women also have a critical role in delivering that peace process. That is why we are working with the PA as well to ensure that women are involved and engaged, as she says.

Lord McDonald of Salford Portrait Lord McDonald of Salford (CB)
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My Lords, the country in the Middle East that had the worst 2024 was Iran. At the beginning of 2025 there are indications that Tehran wants to return to the negotiating table. When Mr Trump was the 45th President of the United States, he took the US out of the JCPOA. Now that he is the 47th President, will His Majesty’s Government urge Washington to re-engage with the JCPOA from a position of greater strength?

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Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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I hear what the noble Lord says, but we have to recognise that we condemned Iranian attacks on Israel. We have seen what Iran is capable of doing and how responsible it is for malign activity, most recently on 14 October. We have been focusing on calling on Iran and its allies to refrain from further attacks to de-escalate the situation and to support the opportunity for an agreed ceasefire.

Now that we have that ceasefire, we can work with our regional allies to ensure that there is a process that can deliver a more sustainable peace for the whole region. The mechanism for doing that has to be open to further dialogue. We cannot be prescriptive in the way that the noble Lord hopes to be. We know that mechanism delivered a much safer world in terms of nuclear proliferation, so we need to engage and focus with our allies in looking at the possible mechanisms to achieve that.

Baroness Blower Portrait Baroness Blower (Lab)
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My Lords, I wonder whether my noble friend knows that, over quite a lot of years—probably coming up to two decades—the international teacher trade union movement has worked extensively with teachers in Palestine, offering training and curriculum development. I include the Nordic countries, France and certainly Britain. I have been into Palestinian schools and looked extensively at the curriculum and I can assure my noble friend—and hope that he will agree—that UNRWA does not engage in indoctrination.

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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Like my noble friend, I had the opportunity to visit the Occupied Territories and I certainly visited schools. I looked at many of the facilities that UNRWA provided, and they are an essential mechanism for delivering that humanitarian aid. My noble friend makes a very important point, which again raises the issue of the role of civil society. Like the initiatives she mentioned in terms of teachers, there is a role for all kinds of civil society. We have heard about faith groups—I would mention trade unions. I had a long association with the Palestinian trade union federation. I think we can do more to encourage civil society from all quarters to support that reconstruction. So, I agree with my noble friend: there are great opportunities for the future here.

Lord Walney Portrait Lord Walney (CB)
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I know the Minister is not going to dismiss the substantial evidence that has built up over the years of extremist poison being injected into the minds of young Palestinians through the school system. But, whatever the past, does he agree that it is very hard to see a more tolerant future if this were still to occur? Will he commit the UK to make clear to the Palestinian Authority that any further support for it will be contingent on there being no extremism within the education system?

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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Building confidence and trust is not an easy thing to do over the long period of conflict that we have seen, and that is true of every area of conflict. We need to ensure that we define what peace means and what are the benefits and dividends of it, because there are great opportunities in Palestine and in Israel to develop economic progress in a way we have not seen before, and that peace can deliver. That is what we need to focus on. Looking back to old definitions, particularly the terms of terrorism, can hold back the building confidence process. I have spoken to many Israeli organisations working for peace in Israel and they are focused on ensuring that they look to the future, that we do not look at the past, and that we certainly build trust among young people.

Lord Bellingham Portrait Lord Bellingham (Con)
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My Lords, can the Minister clarify whether the Foreign Secretary has met US special envoy Steve Witkoff yet? Can he also clarify what he said about the two-state solution, because surely this is the only way forward in the future to find a realistic peace? Would he also agree that this will work only if the State of Israel does actually now desist from the settlement programme on the West Bank?

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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We have made our position clear, as has the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad. We have been consistent about settlements in the Occupied Territories, we have been consistent in terms of the duties on Israel and we have condemned any extension of settlements. We have made absolutely clear, as the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, said, that the previous Government and this Government are committed to that process, and we have made clear to the Israelis the consequence of undermining the possibility of a secure Palestinian state.

The Foreign Secretary has visited Israel and the region on three occasions since taking office. Every time he has visited, he has visited the Occupied Territories. I am pretty certain he has met the envoy, but I cannot give the noble Lord that assurance—I am not absolutely certain—but he has been heavily engaged in this process. As I said at the beginning, we have been making very serious calls about the ceasefire, we now have it, it is fragile and we need to be committed to ensure it is sustainable.