Erasmus Programme

Monday 20th January 2025 Lords Chamber

Question

15:19

Asked by

[Lord Balfe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to fulfil demand for the revival or replacement of the Erasmus programme.

[The Minister of State, Department for Education (Baroness Smith of Malvern) (Lab)]

My Lords, following the UK’s departure from the EU, the Government introduced the Turing scheme in 2021, which provides grants for students to study and work anywhere in the world and has supported tens of thousands of UK students since its launch. In addition, we are working with the higher education sector to ensure that our world-leading universities continue to attract the brightest and best. However, we have no plans for rejoining the Erasmus programme.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, the EU clearly wants a new EU mobility scheme for youth, and there is a great demand for that among young people in Britain. It would strengthen our society, labour market and economy, so why do the Government—as did, in fairness, the previous Government—seem so hell-bent on avoiding any commitment to a European solution?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

We are, of course, already engaged in defining the important reset of our relationship with the EU. That is why the Prime Minister and the European Commission President met in the autumn to agree to strengthen our relationship. My right honourable friend, Minister Thomas-Symonds, has been taking discussions forward with his counterpart. We will look at EU proposals on a range of issues, but there are no plans for a youth mobility scheme and we will not return to freedom of movement.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that a critical advantage of Erasmus is reciprocity, which is lacking in the Turing scheme?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The Turing scheme focuses on ensuring that UK students in higher education, learners in further education and school pupils are able to take advantage of studying or working abroad. I am encouraged that, of those taking part in the scheme in 2024-25, 53% are from disadvantaged backgrounds. The focus remains on providing opportunities for UK students to experience the benefits of studying and working abroad.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the scheme that has been running in Wales with the support of all parties there. None the less, I think there is an acceptance across parties in Wales that the full Erasmus scheme was much more beneficial for everybody in both directions. The reopening of it would not necessarily prejudice the attitude towards other questions relating to the European Union. Surely the Government can make an example of this one to get progress in its own right.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I am not sure that, if you are engaged in a quite important reset as the UK Government are, it makes enormous sense to pick and choose the different issues on which you might negotiate. I acknowledge the noble Lord’s recognition of Taith, the Welsh Government’s international learning exchange programme, which, like the Turing scheme, provides important opportunities.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, David Lammy said that he wanted to reinvigorate our relationship with the EU. Would not the Erasmus scheme, or something very like it, be a good step towards that?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

We are already resetting our relationship with our European friends, to strengthen ties, to secure a broad-based security pact and to tackle barriers to trade. The President of the European Council has invited the Prime Minister to meet EU leaders in Brussels on 3 February, where the Prime Minister is looking forward to discussing enhanced strategic co-operation with the EU. We are also resetting our bilateral relationships alongside our ambition for our wider reset with the EU, as demonstrated by the Prime Minister’s recent visits to France, Germany, Ireland and Italy.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister tell us why the Government have no plans to join Erasmus? She has stated flatly that we do not have plans to, but why not, when the Erasmus scheme was recognised by both main parties when in government as one of the major advantages of being in the EU?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The Erasmus scheme may well have been a major advantage, but we had to leave that scheme at the point at which we left the EU in 2020.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, did I imagine it or, when the Labour Party was in opposition, did we not hear endless questions condemning the previous Government for not joining Erasmus? What has brought about this change of mind? Has the penny finally dropped that, as the Minister answering the previous Question said, it is better to take back control?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

As I have just said, there were considerable benefits to being part of the Erasmus scheme, but of course the UK ceased to participate in Erasmus as a programme country after leaving the EU on 31 January 2020—a decision for which this Government were not responsible, but we need to clear up the mess.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, what is the objection in principle to having youth exchanges as part of a reset?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

It is important that we provide opportunities for our young people to study and work abroad. That is what the Turing scheme is currently doing, to an extent. I am pleased that in the past year it ensured that disadvantaged students in particular were able to take advantage of it. As I have already said, as part of our reset, we will consider in the round any proposals that we believe to be of advantage to our country and to our young people.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister understand that the idea of Erasmus is not simply about British students going to other countries but about a genuine exchange at the stage in life when it can fundamentally change people’s experiences and help the United Kingdom in future? It is a form of soft power and would be beneficial whether as part of a wider reset or not, whatever one’s attitudes to the European Union may be.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I understand that, and I understand the benefits that come, for example, to our higher education sector from international students coming to the UK. That is why the Government have set out the valuable contribution that international students make to our universities, our communities and our country—and, of course to our economy in terms of the £12.1 billion fee income that comes from those students. I wholly understand the noble Baroness’s point. That is why I hope that, in future, we will be able to build on that to ensure that people can come to the UK to benefit from our education system.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps I can give the Minister a little relief from talking about Erasmus by talking about the Turing scheme itself. Yesterday, the DfE published the updated guidelines for Turing applicants for 2025-26, which appear pretty much identical to those published under the previous Government. Can she confirm that the funding will be maintained for this year? Given how oversubscribed Turing is, will there be any shift in priorities between schools, colleges and universities?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I am pleased that we are able to continue the Turing scheme for the coming year, with £105 million allocated this year. I will come back to the noble Baroness on the allocation for next year. My wish is that we make even further progress than has been the case this year on ensuring that those who can benefit from it are participants from disadvantaged backgrounds, who would not otherwise have that opportunity.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

My Lords, I certainly welcome the Turing scheme, but it is not the same thing as Erasmus. The important thing about Erasmus is that it is not just about education; as we have heard, it is about the wider cultural exchange of ideas. With respect, I do not think that the Minister answered my noble friend Lord Clancarty’s question about reciprocity. We do not accept people from abroad. Is that not surely the whole nature of an exchange of ideas?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I talked about the considerable benefits that come to our country and our higher education system from the ability of international students to come to study in the UK. We are also committed as a department to ensuring school visits and other opportunities for exchange. We can, where possible, eradicate some of the challenges that have arisen in relation to children going to experience visits in the rest of Europe and to students being able to come to the UK. Of course, we recognise the benefit that comes from language assistants, for example, being able to come to the UK. I do not think it is true that I have not recognised that, but that is different from committing to a specific programme at this point in the UK’s reset with the EU.