Monday 23rd October 2023
(1 year, 1 month ago)
Lords ChamberLevelling-up and Regeneration Act 2023 View all Levelling-up and Regeneration Act 2023 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Amendment Paper: HL Bill 175-I Marshalled list for Consideration of Commons Amendments and Reasons - (20 Oct 2023)
15:55 - Division on Motion B1 - Ayes: 183 / Noes: 198 - Motion B1 disagreed.
16:57 - Division on Motion F1 - Ayes: 185 / Noes: 218 - Motion F1 disagreed.
17:12 - Division on Motion J1 - Ayes: 208 / Noes: 199 - Motion J1 agreed.
18:52 - Division on Motion L1 - Ayes: 179 / Noes: 196 - Motion L1 disagreed.
19:03 - Division on Amendment M1 - Ayes: 189 / Noes: 186 - Amendment M1 agreed.
19:14 - Division on Motion N1 - Ayes: 185 / Noes: 186 - Motion N1 disagreed.
19:28 - Division on Motion R1 - Ayes: 176 / Noes: 191 - Motion R1 disagreed.
20:34 - Division on Motion ZE1 - Ayes: 158 / Noes: 176 - Motion ZE1 disagreed.
Earl Howe
That this House do not insist on its Amendment 1, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 1A.
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, the Levelling up and Regeneration Bill establishes the foundations to address entrenched geographic disparities across the UK. Throughout the Bill’s passage we have listened carefully to the views of parliamentarians and stakeholders and introduced amendments in the other place across a range of issues to strengthen the Bill’s provisions further and address concerns that we have heard in both Houses. In this first group, I beg to move Motion A and will speak also to Motions B, B1, C, D, E, E1 and W.
Let me start with Motion A, which relates to levelling up and, first, the issue around the publication of the statement of levelling-up missions. We have committed within the Bill to publish the statement within one month of Part 1 of the Act coming into force, which will be two months after Royal Assent. We believe that this is an appropriate and prompt timescale—it gives sufficient time to collate materials and data across government departments and to ensure that the data is complete and comprehensive before the report is published and laid. The proposed timetable has been endorsed by the other place. We do not think that it makes sense to accelerate the process, as Amendment 1 would seek to do.
On Report, the House agreed to amendments that sought to introduce requirements for government to set levelling-up missions on child poverty and health disparities. In the Commons consideration we have removed those amendments because, important as those issues are, we do not want the Bill to be too rigid or prescriptive. Missions may need to evolve over time and, if the detail of missions appears in the legislation, the process to adjust them in future becomes unhelpfully complex and time-consuming.
However, we recognise that socioeconomic goals are an important part of missions. We have therefore tabled an amendment in lieu that requires the Government to consider both economic and social outcomes in deciding their levelling-up missions. This means that we retain that vital flexibility for future Governments to set missions according to the most important pressing issues of their day, while recognising that social outcomes such as child poverty and health inequalities are essential factors when deciding missions.
I note Motion B1 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, which I am sure she will wish to speak to. The amendments in Motion B1 seek to ensure that the Government have regard to child poverty and health disparity when deciding their levelling-up missions. I hope that on reflection the noble Baroness will feel that the amendments are unnecessary in the light of the Government’s amendment in lieu. The Government will already undertake these considerations when they consider economic and social outcomes, as required by that amendment—I underline that because I can undertake to the noble Baroness today that the first statement of levelling-up missions will contain the missions from the levelling-up White Paper, including the mission to narrow the gap in healthy life expectancy by 2030 and increase healthy life expectancy by five years by 2035.
On Report, your Lordships also approved an amendment that introduced a requirement for government to include an assessment of geographical disparities as part of the statement of levelling-up missions, and defined metrics that this assessment must consider—Amendment 3 now replicates that proposal. The Government cannot support this amendment because the criteria for assessing geographical disparities will inevitably change as the data evolves. However, we have heard the strength of feeling in this House and, as Ministers set out in the other place, we have committed to publish an analysis of geographical disparities alongside the first statement of missions.
Amendment 6 again replicates a change to the Bill previously made in this House, introducing a requirement for the Government to publish a rural-proofing report concerning levelling-up missions. The Government agree that levelling up must work for all types of communities, including rural communities. To avoid anything which would duplicate the existing annual rural-proofing report, which reflects the Government’s consideration of rural challenges across policy-making, including levelling up, we have tabled amendments in lieu which will require the Government to have regard to the needs of rural communities in preparing the statement of levelling-up missions. This approach is consistent with the approach we have taken in other areas, including with respect to the devolved authorities.
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
My Lords, I have some amendments in this group. Amendment 1 concerns the timetable for when the levelling-up Statement should be published. I put on record that we are very happy with the noble Earl’s response and accept the Government’s arguments about that.
I also have the amendment on levelling-up funding. We are pleased that the Government have said they will take a new approach to the third round of the levelling-up fund, and that they have listened to the arguments in this House in Committee and on Report. We welcome the fact that the amendment in lieu has been tabled by the Government so that the Minister has a duty to lay before each House the Statement about the third round of the levelling-up fund within three months of Royal Assent.
I also have Amendment 199 on high-street funding, banks and post offices. We will just have to agree to disagree on this matter; I do not intend to press it any further.
I was pleased to hear the response to the noble Lord, Lord Foster, on rural-proofing and that the Government have tabled the amendment on having regard to the needs of rural communities. Rural communities often feel left out and forgotten, and more needs to be done to take account of that during any levelling-up and regeneration process. It is important that geographical disparities are taken account of.
I will not say much about my noble friend Lady Lister’s amendment on child poverty and health inequalities because she has laid it out very clearly, as have other noble Lords who have spoken. As others have said, if you are genuinely going to sort out disparities and level up, you really have to take into account health inequalities—they are the basis of so much—and child poverty is impacted by that as well. So it is disappointing that the Government have not gone further on this and recognised the difference that they could make. If my noble friend wishes to divide the House, she will have our strong support.
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for their comments on the government Motions in this group and on the amendments that have been tabled. As regards Motion E1 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, about which she has just spoken, and which concerns round 3 of the levelling-up fund, there is little more that I can add to my earlier remarks. She may like to know, however, that policy development relating to round 3 remains ongoing and, for that reason, the Government cannot comment on the specifics of the statement at this time. Nevertheless, I assure the noble Baroness that we have published information on the GOV.UK website regarding allocations in round 1 and round 2 of the fund, and we would expect to do so again in this third round.
Turning to the issues raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, and spoken to by other noble Lords, while I have spoken about our reasons for not accepting her amendment, I would not want the Government’s policy in both these important areas to go by default. I simply say to the noble Baroness that it is important to look not only at what the missions might be able to do—I have already described what our approach will be in that context—but, equally, at what the Government are doing on the ground.
It remains our firm belief that the best way to help families with children to improve their financial circumstances is through work. As I am sure she knows, because she is an expert in these areas and probably has the statistics in her head, we are supporting working people with the largest ever cash increase to the national living wage. We will spend around £276 billion through the welfare system in Great Britain in 2023-24, including £124 billion on people of working age with children. To help parents on universal credit who are moving into work or increasing their hours, the Government will provide additional support with upfront childcare costs. We will also increase universal credit maximum childcare costs. These issues are not ones the Government regard as trivial—quite the opposite; they are centre stage in the work the DWP and others are doing.
I repeat the undertaking I gave earlier to the noble Baroness. The first statement of levelling-up missions will contain the missions mentioned in the levelling up White Paper, including the mission to narrow the gap in healthy life expectancy and increase healthy life expectancy by five years. I hope she will regard that as evidence of the Government’s intent, even if we have to beg to differ on what ought to go on the face of the Bill.
Lord Butler of Brockwell (CB)
My Lords, before the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, comments, having heard the arguments I would just like to say that I am sympathetic to the Government not wanting to add these words. Nobody would deny for a moment that child poverty and health equality are important matters in levelling up. But if one puts particular words in the Bill, one implies that other things are less important. For that reason, it seems unhelpful, and one ought to take into account the full measure of inequality and not just pick out two particular factors.
Earl Howe
That this House do not insist on its Amendments 2 and 4 and do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 4A and 4B in lieu.
“(2A) In the course of preparing a statement of levelling-up missions, the Minister of the Crown must have regard to the importance of the levelling-up missions in the statement (taken as a whole) addressing both economic and social disparities in opportunities or outcomes.”
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, I have already spoke to Motions C and D. With the leave of the House, I beg to move them en bloc.
Motion D
“(2B) In the course of preparing a statement of levelling-up missions, the Minister of the Crown must have regard to the needs of rural areas.”
“Levelling-up Fund Round 3
(1) Before the end of the period of three months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed, a Minister of the Crown must lay before each House of Parliament a statement on Levelling-up Fund Round 3.
(2) A “statement on Levelling-up Fund Round 3” is a statement about the allocation of a third round of funding from the Levelling-up Fund.
(3) The “Levelling-up Fund” is the programme run by His Majesty’s Government which is known as the Levelling-up Fund and was announced on 25 November 2020.”
(a) section (Levelling-Up Fund Round 3) comes into force on the day on which this Act is passed, and
(b) the remaining provisions come”
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, I have already spoke to Motion E, and I beg to move.
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, we come now to a group on English devolution and local government. In moving Motion F, I shall speak also to Motions G, H, J, J1, ZE and ZE1. There are three Motions against the government Motions, which I shall address in detail, if necessary, in my closing remarks.
The first topic is combined county authorities, a new institutional model introduced by this Bill. Their core feature is that only upper-tier local authorities can be constituent members, which is crucial to ensuring that devolution and its benefits can be expanded to two-tier areas. At Report, your Lordships approved Amendment 13, which would allow non-constituent members of a combined county authority to become full members. The effect of that amendment would be to undermine this principle and reduce the effectiveness of devolution in those areas.
Amendment 13B, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, would have the same effect as Amendment 13 but would allow only non-constituent members that are local authorities to become full members. As with Amendment 13, this would undermine the principle of CCAs, that only upper-tier authorities can become full members, and the Government are therefore unable to support Motion F1.
Motions G and H address other concerns of the House about CCAs. The Government have heard the strength of feeling in both Houses about associate member voting rights and combined authority boundary changes, and we are content to accept these. Accordingly, the Government have tabled amendments in lieu—Amendments 14A to 14R and Amendments 18A and 18B, which we hope the House will support.
Motion J addresses the issue of virtual or hybrid meetings by local authorities. I must tell my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering that the Government stand by their original opposition to this amendment. We have consistently expressed the view that councillors should be physically present to cast their votes and interact in person with citizens. It is important that they are present, active participants in local democracy. Our position on this matter has not changed. The other place rejected Amendment 22 for that reason, and I am afraid we cannot accept Amendment 22B, which my noble friend has tabled in lieu, for the same reason. On an associated issue, as my noble friend knows, there are no limits placed on authorities broadcasting their meetings online, and I would encourage them to do so to reach as wide an audience as possible.
Amendment 273 reflects a proposal put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Bach, at Report which would see Clause 62 commence nine months after Royal Assent, preventing the transfer of PCC functions to combined authority mayors at the May 2024 elections using this clause. The arguments advanced by the noble Lord in favour of this proposal rested on an important misunderstanding about the legislative effect of Clause 62.
First, I would like to reassure the House that PCC functions may transfer to a mayor only at the point of a mayoral election, maintaining the democratic accountability established by the PCC model. Secondly, on the issue of consent, which I know the noble Lord, Lord Bach, is concerned about, Clause 62 amends the statutory consent requirements for a mayor to request a transfer of PCC functions. It does not, however, lessen the importance of engagement between a mayor and local partners, including local authorities and the PCC, to inform a mayor’s decision whether to request a transfer of these functions. Where mayors request the transfer of PCC functions, government will make clear to those mayors the importance of that engagement with their partners. I hope that is useful clarification for the noble Lord. I beg to move.
Motion F1 (as an amendment to Motion F)
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard (CB)
I offer a very brief word in support of what the noble Baroness has just said on Motion ZE1. I know very little about the politics and governance practices of the West Midlands, but when I lived in America I was privileged to watch at close hand the governance practices of the Deep South and of Mayor Willie Brown’s San Francisco and Mayor Daley’s Chicago. As I listened in both the previous debate and this afternoon to the noble Lord, Lord Bach, explaining what looks to me like a rather unusual practice developing in the West Midlands, I was strongly reminded of the practices of state governments in the Deep South of the United States. I do not think that is a road we should go down, and I very much hope the House will once again support the noble Lord, Lord Bach.
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, I am once again grateful to noble Lords for their contributions to the debate on this group of Motions and amendments. As I indicated at the outset, the Government cannot support the three amendments to the government Motions in this group.
Motion F1, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, would have the same effect as the original amendment but apply only to local authorities. I urge the House not to go down this road. The basis of the CCA model is that only upper-tier and unitary authorities can be members, not least because they are the bodies in whom financial responsibility will be vested and who will contribute financially to the running of the CCA.
However, as I am sure the noble Baroness accepts, because we debated this at length at earlier stages of the Bill, we recognise the vital role that district councils play. In response to the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and my noble friend Lord Lansley, and as Ministers said in the other place, we are sympathetic to the idea that district councils should have voting rights pertaining to them as non-constituent members. We have deliberately left scope for this to happen. However, we are clear that that should be a matter to be determined at the local level. District councils need not be shut out of the room, as the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, suggested, nor do I expect them to be so. We expect the upper-tier local authorities that we agree devolution deals with to work with district councils to deliver the powers most effectively being provided. In discussions thus far, we are encouraging potential deal areas to consider how best to involve district councils, in recognition of the role they can play. My ministerial colleagues have been engaging personally with district councils and the District Councils’ Network on this issue.
My noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering has returned to the charge on virtual or hybrid meetings with her Motion J1. As I stated in my opening remarks, at the heart of the issue is the strength of the scrutiny exercised by local authorities and the importance of maintaining the integrity of local democratic principles. I need not remind the House that virtual and hybrid proceedings have significant limitations for scrutiny and interaction of members of any legislature. As such, we do not agree that councillors should be able to attend these meetings and cast their votes remotely. The Government are therefore unable to support the amendment in lieu. I respond to the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, who drew the comparison with committees of this House, by saying that the functions, roles and powers of committees of this House are wholly different from the functions, roles and powers of committees of local authorities.
Baroness Pinnock (LD)
I am sorry to interrupt the noble Earl, but I remind him that councils have scrutiny committees, which frequently do not vote, so there are similarities between the committees of this House and, for example, scrutiny committees of local authorities.
Earl Howe (Con)
The House will have heard the noble Baroness’s comments, but I draw the distinction between the roles of the two kinds of committee.
Incidentally, the amendment would open up the possibility of councils moving to an entirely remote model of council meetings—something that noble Lords perhaps should ask themselves whether they would favour. My noble friend will doubtless have noted that the Government’s majority in the other place when the amendment was put to the vote was very substantial.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
My Lords, how far would the noble Earl take this principle in relation to public bodies? I am a member of the GMC. We meet half in person and half remotely. Many other national bodies, some in receipt of government funding and others independent like the GMC, operate in the same way. Would his department say that the principle he is enunciating should be extended throughout the public sector? If not, why not? I do not understand the logic of the Government’s position.
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, we have been over this issue almost ad infinitum in Committee. We are not in Committee anymore; we are at Lords consideration of Commons amendments. I hope the noble Lord would agree that we are past the stage of arguing the niceties in the way he invites me to do.
Finally, in his Motion ZE1, the noble Lord, Lord Bach, seeks to insist on his original amendment. I can only reiterate the points in my opening that PCC powers would transfer to an elected mayor only after that individual has become democratically accountable at a local level. The example he sought to cite as a fait accompli is nothing of the kind, for the simple reason that there needs to be an election before the Mayor of the West Midlands could hope to become a PCC. If the transfer is to happen in the West Midlands, the mayor could exercise the PCC functions only if elected to do so at the next election, so there is no compromise of the democratic mandate of the elected mayor to exercise the functions. The choice of who would exercise the PCC functions in the West Midlands would remain in the hands of the people of the West Midlands if the transfer were to happen.
Commencement at Royal Assent enables the Government to adhere as closely as they can to the Gould principle of electoral management, whereby any changes to elections should aim to be made with at least six months’ notice. As the noble Lord knows, the Government wish these provisions to have legal effect in time for the local elections in May next year. His amendment would frustrate that policy intention. I hope he will forgive my pointing it out, but doubtless he will have noticed that the Government’s majority on this issue in the other place was very substantial: 153. I hope that on reflection he will be content to accept the assurances I have given and will not move his amendment in lieu.
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)
My Lords, the noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Lansley, highlighted the confusion at the heart of the Government’s position relating to district councils on combined county authorities. The Minister’s contention is that there is local discretion to give districts a vote, while his statement was that only upper-tier authorities should be full members. I am not satisfied that the Government continuing to repeat this assertion that CCAs should be made up of upper-tier authorities only when their core business is not housing, planning or economic development but social care, children’s services and highways makes it right or advisable, and neither does it meet the key principles of democracy or devolution. Therefore, I wish to test the opinion of the House.
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, I have already spoken to Motion J. I beg to move.
Motion J1 (as an amendment to Motion J)
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering
Moved by
At end insert “, and do propose Amendment 22B in lieu—
Earl Howe
That this House do not insist on its Amendment 44 and do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 44A and 44B in lieu.
“(4) The only cases in which no consultation or participation need take place under subsection (3) are those where the Secretary of State thinks that none is appropriate because—
(a) a proposed modification of a national development management policy does not materially affect the policy or only corrects an obvious error or omission, or
(b) it is necessary, or expedient, for the Secretary of State to act urgently.”
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, in moving Motion L, with the leave of the House I will also speak to Motions M, M1, N, N1, P, P1, Q, R, R1, V, ZD, ZD1, ZF and ZH. It may be helpful to the House if I draw attention to the advice from the House of Commons authorities, which is that Motions N1 and R1 in this group would attract financial privilege.
I start with Amendment 44, which the Government invite the House to reject in our Motion L. The powers in the Bill relating to planning and the environment have, quite rightly, been of great interest to this House, and I am grateful for the productive discussions that have taken place inside and outside this Chamber. National development management policies are a key part of these reforms, and the amendment that we have brought forward makes clear our intention to consult other than in exceptional circumstances or where changes would have no material effect. That will give everyone, including parliamentarians, the opportunity to scrutinise the policies before they come into effect. I am very aware that consultation was an important issue for noble Lords at earlier stages of the Bill.
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
My Lords, I shall be very brief. This has been quite a long debate, and we have a number of votes at the end of it.
First, on the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, regarding NDMPs, we agree with her that the Government’s amendment is not sufficient to answer the concerns that were raised in Committee and on Report. If the noble Baroness wishes to divide the House, she will have our full support.
Secondly, on the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale, on planning and climate change, we consider this an extremely important issue, as other noble Lords have mentioned. If he wishes to divide the House, he will have our full support.
On the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, on healthy homes, which he spoke to so eloquently—as did the noble Lord, Lord Young—we also believe that health needs to be at the centre of planning when making decisions about housing. If the noble Lord wishes to press this to a vote, he will have our full support.
We welcome the fact that there have been concessions on ancient woodland and offshore wind, and some concession for the noble Lord, Lord Best, on his amendment. We would have preferred to see mention of social housing, as well as affordable housing, in the Government’s Amendment 329A.
On the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, on floods, it is very important and the Government need to get a grip on whether people can get insurance—ideally through Flood Re—because we cannot have insurance with excess that is so huge that it makes the insurance pointless. We have a debate tomorrow on Storm Babet; I am sure these issues will be raised again then.
Finally, on the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, on planning fees, we believe that this is an important point that we need to continue to discuss. Therefore, if the noble Baroness wishes to test the opinion of the House, she will have our strong support.
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, once again I am grateful to noble Lords for their comments and questions.
Motion L1, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, relates to national development management policies and the process by which they are made. We do not agree with the principle that the process for making national development management policies should be based on that for national policy statements. National development management policies will serve a broader purpose than national policy statements, which are used by Ministers to make planning decisions for major infrastructure projects, so it is right that their requirements should be suited to their purpose, not based on the provisions of a different regime.
That said, I cannot agree with the noble Baroness’s characterisation of Motion L. The parliamentary scrutiny proposals in Motion L go even further than the provisions for national policy statements. The NPS provisions refer to the House of Commons where these proposals refer to both Houses. The NPS provisions require the Secretary of State to respond to recommendations of a committee of either House before they can be made, while this Motion would require a vote in favour of the proposals if a committee of either House made recommendations about a draft policy. This Motion would limit the circumstances in which no consultation is necessary to those in the interests of public safety or national security. That would be too narrow for the exceptional circumstances in which we expect this provision to be used. Examples we have given—such as our changes during the pandemic offering protection to theatres that were temporarily vacant—would not have been able to be made with such a narrowly drafted provision. This is because, although the policy change was in response to the pandemic, it was not in the interests of public safety or national security itself. We do not think this part of the amendment is necessary, as NDMPs will be a programme of policies that we anticipate will be captured by the requirement to undertake statutory environmental assessment.
Motion N1 from the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, requires the Secretary of State to
“promote a comprehensive regulatory framework for planning and the built environment designed to secure the physical, mental and social health and well-being of the people of England by ensuring the creation of healthy homes and neighbourhoods”.
While the Government, as I have said on many occasions, support the principle raised by the noble Lord, I say again that these matters are already taken into consideration and addressed through existing systems and regimes. That includes through building safety, building regulations, the National Planning Policy Framework, the national design code and the national model design code. The creation of an additional regulatory framework would cut across these regimes. I know he said that was the whole point, but I contend that those regimes are already comprehensive, and the Government therefore cannot support his Motion.
Earl Howe
That this House do not insist on its Amendment 45, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 45A.
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, I have already spoken to Motion M. I beg to move.
Motion M1 (as an amendment to Motion M)
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, I have already spoken to Motion N. I beg to move.
Motion N1 (as an amendment to Motion N)
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, I have already spoken to Motion P. I beg to move.
Motion P1 (as an amendment to Motion P)
“Development affecting ancient woodland
(1) Before the end of the period of three months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed, the Secretary of State must vary the Town and Country Planning (Consultation) (England) Direction 2021 (“the 2021 Direction”) so that it applies in relation to applications for planning permission for development affecting ancient woodland.
(2) In subsection (1) “ancient woodland” means an area in England which has been continuously wooded since at least the end of the year 1600 A.D.
(3) This section does not affect whether or how the Secretary of State may withdraw or vary the 2021 Direction after it has been varied as mentioned in subsection (1).”
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, I have already spoken to Motion R. I beg to move.
Motion R1 (as an amendment to Motion R)
(a) in the case of regulations made by the Secretary of State acting alone or jointly with a devolved authority, the current environmental improvement plan (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Environment Act 2021),
(b) in the case of regulations made by the Scottish Ministers acting alone, the current environmental policy strategy (within the meaning of section 47 of the UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 (asp 4)),
(c) in the case of regulations made by the Welsh Ministers acting alone, the current national natural resources policy (within the meaning of section 9 of the Environment (Wales) Act 2016), or
(d) in the case of regulations made by a Northern Ireland department acting alone, the current environmental improvement plan (within the meaning of Schedule 2 to the Environment Act 2021).”
(a) within Scottish devolved legislative competence, or
(b) which could be made by the Scottish Ministers, with the consent of the Scottish Ministers, unless that provision is merely incidental to, or consequential on, provision that would be outside that devolved legislative competence.”
(5) Regulations under this section may not amend or repeal—
(a) sections 9, 10 and 11,
(b) section 12(2), or
(c) section 21, of the Building Safety Act 2022.” LORDS AMENDMENT 237
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, with the leave of the House, in moving this Motion I will also speak to Motions ZC and ZC1. Together, these Motions address two matters relating to the building safety regime that we have established through the Building Safety Act 2022. I turn first to the power the Government have taken to transfer the building safety regulator out of the Health and Safety Executive in the future.
I recognise the concerns that many noble Lords expressed when they amended these proposals to add formal protections for the important statutory committees established through Sections 9 to 11 of the Building Safety Act. I must particularly thank the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, for his continued interest and constructive engagement with me and my officials. However, we have further considered his amendment and, unfortunately, our conclusion is that it would force us to lose these important committees should the building safety regulator be moved out of the Health and Safety Executive, by preventing the Government amending these sections to change the key references to the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act under which they have been established. We are therefore unable to accept the proposal and have made Amendment 231A, removing the relevant section from Amendment 231.
However, let me repeat the strong commitment that I gave on Report in this House: the Government have no intention to amend the make-up or role of these committees, and fully intend that they should be retained and their important work protected. On this basis, I hope that your Lordships will agree to Amendment 231A. I will respond to Motion X1, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, in my closing speech.
Amendment 242, originally put forward by my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham, seeks to secure parity between qualifying and non-qualifying leaseholders under the Building Safety Act 2022, extending the protection to three properties for all types of leaseholder. It would also amend the Building Safety Act to exclude shares in a property of 50% or less from being counted as wholly owned.
The Government cannot accept Amendment 242, for a number of reasons. First, we do not believe that it would have the intended effect. It may in fact undermine the protections currently in place. The noble Earl, Lord Lytton, raised concerns with it on Report because of this. He pointed out that, under my noble friend’s amendment,
“post-remediation qualified status would disappear. If some further defect is found at a later date, the building owner would then impose the cost of sorting it out on all the leaseholders”.—[Official Report, 18/9/23; col. 1239.]
That is not, I am sure, what my noble friend intends. The noble Earl, Lord Lytton, also observed that the amendment does not deal with minority shared ownerships.
Secondly, I can only repeat what I said to my noble friend on Report. The range of issues the amendment attempts to deal with is so extraordinarily complex that it requires rather more time for our lawyers—and. Indeed, lawyers externally—to address fully. As will be clear from our Amendments 288A to 288D in lieu of Amendment 243, this is a complex area of law and, with the greatest respect to your Lordships, Amendment 242 does not deal comprehensively with the difficult and overlapping pieces of legislation in this space. As my noble friend Lady Scott and I have made clear in this House, the Government are looking at these issues carefully, but they are not straightforward and the potential for rushed change to have unintended consequences is high. I therefore ask your Lordships not to insist on Amendment 242.
As my honourable friend the Housing Minister explained in the other place last week, the Government accept the principle of Amendment 243, originally put forward by my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham. We have therefore proposed Amendments 288A to 288D in lieu of Amendments 243 and 288. This will ensure that the statutory protections for leaseholders continue where qualifying leases are extended, varied or replaced by an entirely new lease. This amendment will be retrospective, so it will apply to qualifying leases extended, varied or replaced since 14 February 2022. This means that those qualifying leaseholders who have, for example, extended their leases, or are in the middle of the process, will be covered by the protections. I hope that noble Lords will therefore not insist on Amendments 243 and 288 and instead accept Amendments 288A to 288D. I do of course note my noble friend Lord Young’s Motion ZC1, which I will respond to in my closing speech once he has spoken to it. I beg to move.
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)
My Lords, first, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to the building safety parts of this Bill, which have been complex, but it was all done in the interests of the leaseholders who are at the end of this process. The noble Lords, Lord Stunell and Lord Young, have outlined the reasons for their amendments. I hope that the Minister will carefully consider these outstanding matters. We are all mindful in your Lordships’ House that behind all the technicalities and complexities of the Building Safety Act and attempts to right its deficiencies in this Bill is a group of leaseholders, many of whom were or are first-time buyers, who have had the start of their home-owning journey blighted by the worry and concern of remediation and uncertainty over service charges. They have been let down by errors in the original Bill, which meant that the status of their leasehold determined what charges they would have to pay.
The Minister reassures us that further review of these matters will be undertaken. I hope that will be the case, and that further thought will be given by the Government, if there is to be no compensation to those who have already had significant costs, to how that might be dealt with in future.
Earl Howe (Con)
I am grateful to noble Lords for their comments on this group. I thank my noble friend Lord Young for his kind words on government Amendments 288A, 288B, 288C and 288D. He asked about his Motion in relation to leaseholders who have paid remediation costs since losing the protections. Like my noble friend, the Government are concerned about leaseholders who have paid a significant service charge where they have lost the protections upon extending their leases. Those who have paid out remediation costs while outside the protections may be able to bring a claim for unjust enrichment.
I should point out to your Lordships that we are not aware of this issue being raised with us by any affected leaseholders, so it may well be theoretical in nature—my noble friend may contradict me on that. That said, if we do come across any cases where remediation charges have been paid and are not returned, the Building Safety Act contains a power to make secondary legislation that we believe enables us to provide a bespoke remedy to this issue. If cases do come to light, we will consider carefully whether that is the right thing to do.
Lord Young of Cookham (Con)
I am very grateful for what my noble friend has just said. However, will leaseholders first have to go through the process of claiming unlawful enrichment before the Government introduce the provisions he has outlined—which I welcome—or will the Government use the provisions under subsection (11) of new Section 119A to give them the protection without first obliging them to go through a complex process of claiming unlawful enrichment?
Earl Howe (Con)
As I said, we will carefully consider what is the right thing to do. I have no briefing on whether it will be necessary for leaseholders to make a claim either directly or through the courts. We will make a decision as to what is right in all the prevailing circumstances. I am afraid I cannot go further than that.
I can assure my noble friend that we completely appreciate the point that he has raised, and the Government are looking into what we can do for leaseholders who have had to pay excessive service charges where they have lost the protections. For the reasons I have set out, including the potential for unintended consequences which I described in relation to Amendment 242, I ask my noble friend not to press his Motion on Amendment 288E.
On the other issues he raised, I cannot, as my noble friend will understand, pre-empt the forthcoming gracious Speech or what may be contained in it; it would be quite improper for me to do so. However, I can tell him that the issues he has drawn our attention to will be carefully considered in the department I am representing.
On Motion X1, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, I recognise his continued concern and repeat my earlier assurances that the Government do not intend to interfere with these important committees. Section 12 of the Building Safety Act contains appropriate provision to change the statutory committees of the building safety regulator as needed in the future. This gives the Government and regulator the flexibility needed to adapt the role of the regulator and its statutory committees.
We do not agree that it is appropriate or necessary to impose restrictions on the use of that section. We are concerned that, as drafted, this restriction would cause confusion while potentially preventing the use of the powers in Section 12 of the Building Safety Act to make changes to the statutory committees of the regulator in the future.
The Government do not intend to use the power in any way imminently. We consider it necessary to create the ability to move the building safety regulator to an existing or a new body in the future, but we would look at any options very carefully and consider the recommendations from the Grenfell Tower inquiry before confirming the best way forward.
This does not affect the timeline for the building safety regulator’s important work. We expect the regime to be fully operational by April 2024, and we are determined to support delivery of the programme to that timetable. The changes will make sure that we are ready and have the flexibility in place to respond quickly to the Grenfell Tower inquiry report when it is published and that we can be radical and long-term in our thinking.
Earl Howe
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 237A and 237B.
“Powers of local authority in relation to the provision of childcare
In section 8 of the Childcare Act 2006 (powers of local authority in relation to the provision of childcare)—
(a) in subsection (1)(c) omit “subject to subsection (3),”;
(b) omit subsections (3) to (5).”
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, with the leave of the House, in moving Motion Z I will also speak to Motions ZA, ZB and ZB1. As in the earlier group, I draw the attention of the House to the advice from the House of Commons authorities that Motion ZB1 is financially privileged.
The Government listened to the arguments made about local authorities opening their own childcare provision, as reflected in Amendment 239, which was carried on Report. While we did not feel that there was a legislative gap, we have proposed Amendments 239A to 239C in lieu. Amendment 239A removes restrictions on the powers of local authorities to provide their own childcare, as intended by Amendment 239, but does so in a way that is legally sound. Amendments 239B and 239C relate to the extent and commencement of Amendment 239A. On this basis, I hope that your Lordships will agree to these amendments in lieu.
On Report your Lordships also approved Amendment 240, which would require that a Minister publish an assessment of the impact of the enforcement sections of the Vagrancy Act 1824 on levelling up and regeneration. Once again, we have listened to noble Lords’ desire to see something tangible about the Vagrancy Act in the Bill. Given our commitment to the repeal and replacement of this Act, and because identifying, gathering and analysing the information will take significant time, we have agreed to publishing a report but propose that a year should be provided for this, instead of 90 days. To that end, we have tabled Amendments 240A to 240C in lieu, which commit the Government to providing the report within a year. I hope, therefore, that your Lordships will be able to support these amendments.
I turn now to the final issue in this group, as reflected in Amendment 241, which was also carried on Report. This amendment would require the Government to maintain a register of school and hospital buildings in serious disrepair, and to update the register every three months. The safety of our school and hospital buildings is of paramount importance. That is why we invest significant capital funding into improving the estates each year and provide targeted support on issues such as RAAC. We regularly and routinely collect and make available extensive data on the condition of schools and hospitals.
The proposed amendment would drive a number of unintended—and I would say unwanted—consequences. Most concerning is the burden it would place on the school and hospital estates sector and departments, given the volume of relatively minor issues that would require reporting, analysing and following up in order to maintain such a register, ultimately drawing focus away from the most serious issues that require additional support to keep our schools and hospitals safe. The amendment would also carry inevitable financial implications for both the NHS and school systems to collect and maintain such a register, at a time when we all recognise the importance of maximising the front-line impact of resources going into public services.
The House will therefore wish to note that the reason given by the other place for rejecting Amendment 241 is because of the costs that it would impose on public funds through new data collection requirements. In the light of the Commons reason, I trust and hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, will not wish to take the issue further and will instead be content to accept Amendment 241A. The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, has tabled an amendment in lieu that would require the Secretary of State to lay before Parliament a report on schools and hospitals in serious disrepair within 12 months, and every year thereafter. The Government already publish a wide range of information on the school and hospital estates as a matter of course. For example, on health, the annual Estates Returns Information Collection report contains detailed data on individual hospital condition and safety.
For schools, the department has already run two major condition data collections in recent years, made individual reports available to the sector, and published a summary of findings in 2021. In July, detailed data on all 22,000 schools within scope of the condition survey was deposited in the House Libraries and made available on the Parliament website. A third data collection is under way, covering all 22,000 schools and colleges in England. The Government have also published information about schools and hospitals with buildings confirmed as containing RAAC. The education department does not own or manage the estate, as I am sure she knows, so collecting and reporting additional information would have resource implications for both the department and the bodies responsible for school buildings, and take focus away from supporting schools with the most serious issues. Parliament is routinely updated on these issues already, and they are subject to frequent scrutiny and debate among colleagues. That will clearly continue to be the case, and the Government’s view is that the amendment is not required. I beg to move.
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
My Lords, I will speak briefly to thank the Minister for his introduction regarding the two amendments that were moved by the Front Bench here. The first was in my name, relating to childcare. We thank him for listening to and recognising our concerns, and thank the Government for tabling an amendment that does exactly what we asked for; we very much appreciate that. My noble friend Lady Taylor of Stevenage had an amendment down on vagrancy, and again, we are very pleased that the Government have tabled an amendment in lieu on the Vagrancy Act. I will say only that this was promised two years ago, so in our opinion the sooner that action is taken on this, the better.
The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, has an amendment in lieu on RAAC. The Minister is aware, as are other noble Lords, of increasing concerns about the number of schools, hospitals and in fact other buildings that have been affected by this. It is important that there is proper information regarding the extent of the problem, and that schools and hospitals, and other organisations which have buildings that are affected have the support that they need, because this is extremely concerning.
Earl Howe (Con)
My Lords, it may be helpful to the noble Baroness to say that I agree with much of what she has just said. We need to think all the time about the quality of our school, college and hospital buildings. As the House will know, her amendment sprang from a concern about RAAC in particular. I know she understands how seriously we are taking that, and we have been engaging with the sector since 2018. Since last year we have taken a more direct approach with responsible bodies to identify and manage RAAC in the estate, and that exposes these issues to greater scrutiny. Every school and college affected is receiving support from the department. That causes some disruption but we are working with schools and responsible bodies to minimise that. I will take away the points she has rightly made about this issue which, I am sure she will know, is not going to go away in a hurry.
“Report on enforcement of the Vagrancy Act 1824
(1) The Secretary of State must prepare and publish a report on the impact of the enforcement of sections 3 and 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824 on the levelling-up missions (within the meaning given by section 1(2)(a)).
(2) The report must be published within the period of 12 months beginning with the day on which this section comes into force.
(3) This section ceases to have effect on the day on which section 81 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 (repeal of the Vagrancy Act 1824 etc) comes into force.”
“Qualifying leases under the Building Safety Act 2022
(1) The Building Safety Act 2022 is amended in accordance with subsections (2) to (4).
(2) In section 119 (meaning of “qualifying lease”) after subsection (3) insert— “(3A) A connected replacement lease (see section 119A) is also a “qualifying lease”.”
(3) After section 119 insert—
“119A Meaning of “connected replacement lease”
(1) For the purposes of section 119 (and this section) a lease (the “new lease”) is a “connected replacement lease” if—
(a) the new lease is a lease of a single dwelling in a relevant building,
(b) the tenant under the new lease is liable to pay a service charge,
(c) the new lease was granted on or after 14 February 2022,
(d) the new lease replaces—
(i) one other lease, which is a qualifying lease (whether under section 119(2) or (3A)), or
(ii) two or more other leases, at least one of which is a qualifying lease (whether under section 119(2) or (3A)), and
(e) there is continuity in the property let.
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1)(d), the new lease replaces another lease if—
(a) the term of the new lease begins during the term of the other lease, and the new lease is granted in substitution of the other lease, or
(b) the term of the new lease begins at the end of the term of the other lease (regardless of when the lease is granted).
(3) For the purposes of subsection (2)(a), the circumstances in which the new lease is granted in substitution of another lease include circumstances where—
(a) the new lease is granted by way of a surrender and regrant of the other lease (including a deemed surrender and regrant, whether deemed under an enactment or otherwise);
(b) the new lease is granted under—
(i) section 24 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1954 (renewed business leases),
(ii) section 14 of, or Schedule 1 to, the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 (extension of leases of houses), or
(iii) section 56 of the Leasehold Reform, Housing and Urban Development Act 1993 (extension of leases of flats), in a case where that provision of that Act applies by virtue of the other lease.
(4) For the purposes of subsection (1)(e) there is continuity in the property let if—
(a) the newly let property is exactly the same as the already let property,
(b) the newly let property consists of some or all of the already let property, together with other property (whether or not that other property was previously let) (a “property combination”), or
(c) the newly let property consists of some, but not all, of the already let property (but no other property) (a “property reduction”).
(5) But there is no continuity in the property let by virtue of a property reduction if, as respects any lease in the relevant chain of qualifying leases, there was continuity in the property let by virtue of a property combination.
(6) For that purpose, the “relevant” chain of qualifying leases is the chain of qualifying leases of which the new lease would be part were it a connected replacement lease.
(7) For the purposes of subsection (1)(e) there is also continuity in the property let if the new lease is granted to rectify any error in the lease, or any lease, which the new lease replaces.
(8) Where a dwelling is at any time on or after 14 February 2022 let under two or more leases to which subsection (1)(a) and (b) apply, any of the leases which is superior to any of the other leases is not a connected replacement lease.
(9) For the purposes of sections 122 to 125 and Schedule 8, all of the leases in a chain of qualifying leases are to be treated as a single qualifying lease which has a term that—
(a) began when the term of the initial qualifying lease in that chain began, and
(b) ends when the term of the current connected replacement lease in that chain ends.
(10) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about the meaning of “connected replacement lease” (including provision changing the meaning).
(11) The provision that may be made in regulations under this section includes—
(a) provision which amends this section;
(b) provision which has retrospective effect.
(12) Provision in regulations under this section made by virtue of section 168(2)(a) (consequential provision etc) may (in particular) amend this Act.
(13) In this section—
“already let property”, in relation to a new lease, means the property let by the lease or leases which the new lease replaces;
“chain of qualifying leases” means—
(a) an initial qualifying lease which is the preceding qualifying lease in relation to a connected replacement lease (the “first replacement lease”),
(b) the first replacement lease, and
(c) any other connected replacement lease if the preceding qualifying lease in relation to it is— (i) the first replacement lease, or
(ii) any other connected replacement lease which is in the chain of qualifying leases;
and a chain of qualifying leases may accordingly consist of different leases at different times (if further connected replacement leases are granted);
“current connected replacement lease”, in relation to a particular time, means a connected replacement lease during the term of which that time falls;
“initial qualifying lease” means a lease which is a qualifying lease under section 119(2);
“new lease” has the meaning given in subsection (1);
“newly let property” means the property let by the new lease;
“preceding qualifying lease”, in relation to the new lease, means—
(a) in a case within subsection (1)(d)(i), the lease which the new lease replaces;
(b) in a case within subsection (1)(d)(ii), a lease which—
(i) the new lease replaces, and
(ii) is a qualifying lease.
(14) The definitions in section 119(4) also apply for the purposes of this section.”
(4) In section 168(6)(a) (affirmative procedure for regulations), after “74,” insert “119A,”.
(5) The amendments made by this section are to be treated as having come into force on 28 June 2022.”
“(e) section 58 comes into force at the end of the period of two months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed;
(ea) section 59 comes into force on the day on which this Act is passed;
(eb) sections 60 to 62 come into force at the end of the period of two months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed;”
“(6B) The local plan must take account of an assessment of the amount, and type, of housing that is needed in the local planning authority’s area, including the amount of affordable housing that is needed.”