(1 year, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Leader of the House of Commons (Penny Mordaunt)
I beg to move,
That, in accordance with Standing Order No. 149A:
(1) Sir Francis Habgood be appointed as a lay member of the Committee on Standards for a period of six years, with immediate effect;
(2) Rose Marie Parr, David Stirling and Carys Williams be appointed as lay members of the Committee on Standards for a period of six years, from 31 March 2023.
I thank the outgoing lay members of the Committee.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call the shadow Leader of the House.
Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)
In view of the hour, I do not intend to detain colleagues any further. I rise to support the motion officially on behalf of His Majesty’s Opposition. I welcome the appointments of Sir Francis Habgood, Rose Marie Parr, David Stirling and Carys Williams. They come with a range of relevant experience, and they have been properly interviewed, scrutinised and tested. They are recommended by the recruitment panel, and I welcome them. I also thank the outgoing members—Tammy Banks, Rita Dexter and Paul Thorogood, as they leave us—for the significant contribution they have made.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call the Chair of the Standards Committee.
Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
I will be very brief, too, but I felt that I ought to say a couple of words, since I am the only person in the House who has met all the candidates, as I was a member of the panel. We were very impressed by the standard of the candidates who came forward. Sir Francis Habgood, who if the House agrees tonight will be joining the Committee this week, will be a splendid addition to the Committee. One of the advantages of the four members that we will be agreeing tonight is that it will mean, for I think the first time, that the Standards Committee will have members from all four home nations of the United Kingdom, and therefore it will embody the Union in a more dramatic way than perhaps it has done in the past.
I pay tribute to the outgoing members who have already outgone, including Arun Midha, who sat on the panel, and the three members leaving at the end of March. With that, I very much hope that the House will agree the motion.
John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)
I am sorry at this hour to bring a note of dissension to proceedings. Colleagues who have braved these debates before will not be surprised, but basically what we have here is same old, same old. I notice we always employ recruitment consultants. I do not know why, really, because we still get people from the same old group moving around from quango to quango, but from a narrow basis. Of course, the recruitment consultants work on their criteria. What we are not getting in respect of either party is people who represent that vast part of the country that is not metropolitan—I include perhaps some of the metropolitan centres in Scotland and possibly in Northern Ireland—and who are not part of the great and the good. It is the same, by the way, with health authorities.
Going back a number of years, we had local businessmen and council leaders—people who were running businesses day to day and with real-life experience. We had trade union leaders—people who had come up from the shop floor and had real experience. We are dealing with the Committee on Standards; we are dealing with human behaviour.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. I need to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman, because we must take the motion relating to deferred Divisions.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 41A(3)),
That, at this day’s sitting, Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply to the Motions in the name of Penny Mordaunt relating to the Committee on Standards.—(Andrew Stephenson.)
Question agreed to.
Debate resumed.
Main Question again proposed.
John Spellar
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We therefore do not have that breadth of experience and understanding coming in, one could often argue, in many cases.
I do not know any of these individuals; I take the word of Members who have actually met them that they may be quite estimable individuals. However, among that particular social set, there is contempt for the political process and for politics. We can see that coming through on many occasions and in the huge delays that take place when dealing with individual cases, as though this does not have an impact on the political process, political confidence or the individuals themselves.
The reason I raise this issue particularly in this debate, as in many others, is because this attitude is now endemic in the public life of this country. Real-life experience is denigrated. Political experience is particularly denigrated. I think that politics actually is a noble profession. Politics and politicians are absolutely necessary in order for the democratic will of the people to be brought about.
Therefore, by side-lining them and taking them out of decision making, and by claiming that they are non-political, when the nature of things, the conflict in society and the resolution of that conflict are inherently political, we are saying that these matters should not be entrusted to the people who actually put themselves before the public and get their vote—it should be taken away from there. This is just an example, but so much of life in this country now is done by a small set that is self-selecting and, these days, self-perpetuating. There is increasing evidence that the chances of people coming from an ordinary family and moving up through the system are diminishing. We are seeing that in a whole number of areas in this country, such as in the arts, where the opportunities for working-class youngsters to break through in theatre or music have been much diminished.
These people not only do very nicely out of all these quangos, but do so with a warm glow from feeling that they are doing a public service. However, what they are actually doing is leading to the stratification of society, the net result of which, such as in previous debate, is that the public feel frozen out until they have an opportunity to actually say, “We think we ought to be heard.” I urge elected Members on both sides of the House to take that on board seriously. We cannot change all of this immediately, but we can deal with it within our own affairs and say that Members of Parliament should, if I can use a phrase, take back control.
Penny Mordaunt
I shall be brief. I congratulate the hon. Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant) on his new year honour and thank the other Members who have spoken. I hope the whole House will support these new appointments today, and I thank the outgoing lay members.
I thank the right hon. Member for Warley (John Spellar) for his remarks. These are House matters and it is important that hon. Members feel able to speak on such appointments. I will briefly address the two issues that he raised. First, with regard to delays in cases being looked at and the good working of our standards systems, I assure him that that is a matter of concern to me, the hon. Member for Rhondda and Mr Speaker, and it is receiving our attention.
Secondly, with regard to recruitment, whether we are talking about posts on Committees, the staff of the House, or indeed Members of the House of Lords—I say while my Whip is not looking—it is incredibly important that a wide range of different backgrounds, geographies and perspectives are represented. I know that Mr Speaker feels the same way about that. I hope that the House will support the motion and I commend it to the House.
Question put and agreed to.