Committee on Standards (Lay Members)

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Monday 9th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Penny Mordaunt)]

I beg to move,

That, in accordance with Standing Order No. 149A:

(1) Sir Francis Habgood be appointed as a lay member of the Committee on Standards for a period of six years, with immediate effect;

(2) Rose Marie Parr, David Stirling and Carys Williams be appointed as lay members of the Committee on Standards for a period of six years, from 31 March 2023.

I thank the outgoing lay members of the Committee.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the shadow Leader of the House.

[Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)]

In view of the hour, I do not intend to detain colleagues any further. I rise to support the motion officially on behalf of His Majesty’s Opposition. I welcome the appointments of Sir Francis Habgood, Rose Marie Parr, David Stirling and Carys Williams. They come with a range of relevant experience, and they have been properly interviewed, scrutinised and tested. They are recommended by the recruitment panel, and I welcome them. I also thank the outgoing members—Tammy Banks, Rita Dexter and Paul Thorogood, as they leave us—for the significant contribution they have made.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the Chair of the Standards Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. I need to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman, because we must take the motion relating to deferred Divisions.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 41A(3)),

That, at this day’s sitting, Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply to the Motions in the name of Penny Mordaunt relating to the Committee on Standards.—(Andrew Stephenson.)

Question agreed to.

Debate resumed.

Main Question again proposed.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call John Spellar.

[John Spellar]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We therefore do not have that breadth of experience and understanding coming in, one could often argue, in many cases.

I do not know any of these individuals; I take the word of Members who have actually met them that they may be quite estimable individuals. However, among that particular social set, there is contempt for the political process and for politics. We can see that coming through on many occasions and in the huge delays that take place when dealing with individual cases, as though this does not have an impact on the political process, political confidence or the individuals themselves.

The reason I raise this issue particularly in this debate, as in many others, is because this attitude is now endemic in the public life of this country. Real-life experience is denigrated. Political experience is particularly denigrated. I think that politics actually is a noble profession. Politics and politicians are absolutely necessary in order for the democratic will of the people to be brought about.

Therefore, by side-lining them and taking them out of decision making, and by claiming that they are non-political, when the nature of things, the conflict in society and the resolution of that conflict are inherently political, we are saying that these matters should not be entrusted to the people who actually put themselves before the public and get their vote—it should be taken away from there. This is just an example, but so much of life in this country now is done by a small set that is self-selecting and, these days, self-perpetuating. There is increasing evidence that the chances of people coming from an ordinary family and moving up through the system are diminishing. We are seeing that in a whole number of areas in this country, such as in the arts, where the opportunities for working-class youngsters to break through in theatre or music have been much diminished.

These people not only do very nicely out of all these quangos, but do so with a warm glow from feeling that they are doing a public service. However, what they are actually doing is leading to the stratification of society, the net result of which, such as in previous debate, is that the public feel frozen out until they have an opportunity to actually say, “We think we ought to be heard.” I urge elected Members on both sides of the House to take that on board seriously. We cannot change all of this immediately, but we can deal with it within our own affairs and say that Members of Parliament should, if I can use a phrase, take back control.