The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools (Lord Nash) (Con)
My Lords, the ability to save a life is one of the most important skills that a young person can learn, and many young people take part in activities on emergency life support skills in schools. For example, in 2012, St John Ambulance provided support resources for the direct teaching of first aid to more than 500,000 young people in schools. It is for schools to decide whether, how and when pupils should learn emergency life support skills. The Government do not collect data on school provision in this area.
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)
Given that 60,000 people a year have an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest and yet three-quarters of our population are not trained to give basic cardiopulmonary resuscitation, does the Minister recognise that this is a problem? It is devastating for anyone, particularly a child, to see someone have a cardiac arrest in front of them and not know what to do. We know that immediate cardiopulmonary resuscitation will triple the chance of survival. Life-saving skills really should be mandatory in schools, as they are in other European schools. I ask the Minister to reconsider. Has the current consultation over key stage 4 curriculum content in English, maths and science considered including heart function, cardiac arrest and CPR as part of science teaching?
Lord Nash
The noble Baroness is quite right to draw attention to this very important point. Emergency life-saving skills are extremely important. In addition to the St John Ambulance provision, the Red Cross and the British Heart Foundation run excellent schemes. The BHF’s Heartstart scheme has to date trained more than 3.5 million people.
The answer to her curriculum question is that I do not believe we are intending to put this in, but I will investigate that and write to her about it. With regard to particular incidents in schools, we are looking at that in the context of defibrillators to see if there is anything more that we can do.
Lord Storey (LD)
My Lords, the Minister may have heard of the Oliver King Foundation, named after a 12 year-old boy who died of sudden arrhythmic death syndrome. The foundation set up in his name is campaigning successfully to put defibrillators in every school and public place. Would the Minister consider how the Government might support this campaign, and would he be prepared to meet the foundation?
Lord Nash
I am aware of the Oliver King Foundation. Our current policy is that it is a matter for individual schools to decide whether to have defibrillators and to arrange individual training. However, as many noble Lords will know, we have tabled an amendment to the Children and Families Bill to create a new duty on the governing bodies of maintained schools to make arrangements to support pupils with medical conditions and have regard to guidance in that respect.
We are looking at the issue of defibrillators. I am particularly interested in this myself and I would be delighted to meet the Oliver King Foundation with my noble friend to discuss the matter further.
Lord Kinnock (Lab)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the imposition of a compulsory universal requirement for schoolchildren, especially those in their young teens, to learn life-saving skills would have all the advantages spelt out by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and directly contribute to the character-building that the Secretary of State rightly says he would like to see imparted in schools? Will the Minister reconsider the latter part of his Answer to demonstrate even more enthusiasm for the addition of this essential skill to the school curriculum?
Lord Nash
As the noble Lord will know, this Government believe as a matter of policy that prescription from the centre has not worked. The evidence of the performance of our school system over the past 15 years speaks for itself. However, we believe, as we have debated many times in this House, that PSHE and programmes such as first aid are incredibly important, and we are sending out messages as far as we can. We have a new PSHE review and we are engaging with bodies such as the PSHE Association to get the message out to all schools that this kind of programme is very important.
Baroness Hollins (CB)
What impact assessment has been made of the effect of relying on voluntary organisations such as the Boys’ Brigade, the Scouts or St John Ambulance to teach vital emergency life-saving skills, instead of including this on a national curriculum? I agree with my noble friend that the biology course could teach these highly relevant practical skills.
Lord Nash
I am not aware of any impact assessments. If I hear of any I will send them to the noble Baroness. The view of the Government is that, as with PSHE, rather than have prescriptive detail—in words on a piece of paper—of what should be taught, it is much better to encourage schools to engage with expert organisations, such as the ones to which the noble Baroness referred. They are the professionals: they are focused on a particular area and can constantly update their material.
Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)
My Lords, is the Minister aware that it requires remarkable strength to resuscitate someone simply by pushing on their chest or whatever? As a trained dentist, I went on an adult course and I was amazed by how hard you had to press on someone’s chest to revive them, although we did not have a real person to try it on. The Minister should realise that learning this as a child at school would be much more valuable than learning it at a later stage of life. For that reason, we should all support the view of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)
My Lords, with cutbacks in education and probably a reduction in the number of school nurses, how is the Minister monitoring the situation to make sure that schools have a school nurse facility, and that nobody will be endangered by the withdrawal of the service?
Lord Nash
My Lords, I know that the Department of Health is developing a better vision for school nurses. There are 1,300 school nurses but all schools have access to a much wider range of health professionals who may be appropriate depending on the particular conditions. It may be the school nurse’s job to be the bridge between that wider range. We are conscious that, with the new medical condition provision that we put in the Children and Families Bill, we will need to watch carefully to ensure that there is capacity in place to deliver it.
Lord Colwyn (Con)
My Lords, as we have heard, the British Heart Foundation found significant support for teaching emergency life support skills in schools. Is the Minister aware that, in your Lordships’ House, Mr Phipps and his team have signed up to a London ambulance accreditation scheme which includes the use of defibrillators? The scheme could easily be used in schools nationally, 78% of children having stated that they wanted to undertake this training.