Lord Parekh
My Lords, I thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Guildford for securing this debate and introducing it with such wisdom and eloquence. As the subject of the debate rightly points out, freedom of religion and conscience is both a human right and a source of stability; in other words, it is desirable in principle as well as for its consequences. I have two small but critical footnotes to add to the proposition.
First, when we talk about religion and conscience, there is a danger—I do not think that the Bishop made this mistake—of equating conscience with religion as if a non-religious conscience does not have the same rights as a religious conscience. I would like to insist that atheist and secularly minded people can feel just as strongly, hold certain beliefs just as strongly and be committed to a certain way of life just as strongly as religious people, and they need to be protected. Secondly, I am slightly uneasy about calling freedom of religion a fundamental human right. If something is important enough to be a human right, by calling it fundamental one is either guilty of tautology and thus not adding anything or one creates confusion by saying that there can be human rights which are not fundamental. To call something a human right is by definition to say that it is absolutely fundamental and non-negotiable. As an academic I wanted to get those small linguistic and conceptual quibbles out of the way and get down to the politics of the proposition.
We have an obligation to promote freedom of religion internationally. How can we do that? I think that there are two ways, although there is a tendency to concentrate on one and neglect the other. We promote freedom of religion positively as well as negatively. We do it positively by persuasion, through moral and political pressure and by setting an ideal example. However, I do not think that we have always been a good example in terms of promoting freedom of religion in our own society and therefore sometimes we have spoken to the world in inconsistent voices.
I want to concentrate on how we can promote freedom of religion negatively, and on how we have failed to do so. We can easily undermine the conditions in which freedom of religion can grow and flourish in other societies. We do that by following certain kinds of economic and foreign policies that create the conditions in which religion becomes an object of suspicion, conflict is created between religious groups, and religion becomes the site where deep political and economic group conflicts are played out. By and large, in every society people know that they have to live together and they work out a kind of modus vivendi whereby those of different religions somehow rub along and learn to live together. Things begin to go wrong when the normal rhythm of that human relationship is disturbed, and that is where the outsider comes in. The outsider can disturb the rhythm of human relationships by creating conflict, wittingly or unwittingly. Situations can be created in which people feel threatened, frightened and besieged, so they turn on each other as objects of hatred. Consciously or unconsciously, I think that we did that in Iraq by invading the country and in how we ran it afterwards, creating conflict between the Shias and the Sunnis. That is what we did in uncritically supporting Saudi Arabia and the Wahhabis where religion is hardly respected; or at least only a particular kind of religion is respected.
It is also what we have done by supporting aggressive secularism, as we did in the case of Algeria several years ago when the army took over. We are so frightened of religion that we encouraged secular forces which came down heavily on religious people, who then felt threatened and became terrorists. That gave rise to a vicious cycle whereby religious and secular fundamentalism have played each other out. If we are really concerned about freedom of religion, we have to make sure that our foreign and economic policies do not create the conditions, wittingly or unwittingly, in which religious groups are at each other’s throats and, as a result, freedom of religion becomes the first casualty.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords, we are very short of time so I would remind noble Lords that when the clock registers four minutes, the speaker needs to bring their remarks to a close quickly.
The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)
My Lords, I congratulate the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Guildford on securing this very important debate and thank all noble Lords who have made such valuable contributions to today’s discussion.
This is such an important and relevant time to be having this debate; as I was saying earlier to the right reverend Prelate, we have had a conference today at Lancaster House specifically focusing on this very issue. The Foreign Office and indeed the Government take the promotion of the protection of the right to freedom of religion or belief as a key human rights priority, so I am pleased to have the opportunity to tell the House of the work that we have been doing.
This is an issue that I know is followed closely by Members of this House, and I receive much correspondence about it from both parliamentarians and the general public. It is an issue that can quickly bring the abstract into our living rooms via media stories that have such a human element.
Freedom of religion or belief is, I believe, one of the fundamental human rights, and one that underpins many of the others. It is a valuable litmus test of other basic freedoms. I say that because, where freedom of religion or belief is under attack, we often find that other freedoms are under attack too.
This is an issue that also matters to me personally as an individual, as a practising Muslim in a Christian country and as a Minister in the FCO with responsibility for human rights, of which a priority area is freedom of religion and belief. Indeed, earlier today, as I mentioned, we had a historic meeting, trying to form a core group of government Ministers, senior advisers and ambassadors from across the world.
The Secretary-General of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, the Foreign Minister from Canada and Ministers from Pakistan and Morocco were there, along with ambassadors and senior officials from a wide spread of other countries, including many countries that have been mentioned here today. I hope and believe that our discussions today will make a real contribution to solidifying the international consensus around the need to do more to combat religious intolerance and promote the right to freedom of religion and belief, using Resolution 1618 as a framework. It is important diplomacy but of course it is risky; I have had numerous conversations with my officials about what we can achieve but what may be lost when we have these honest conversations. However, we must be brave, for exactly the reasons mentioned by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Ripon and Leeds.
I am grateful that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Guildford said that he did not want the debate to be a fight about who around the world is victimised more. This is a universal right and we must therefore protect all minority religions, wherever they are and whenever that abuse occurs. I think that I speak for people of faith when I say that evil in the name of faith can be found in the distortion of any faith, and we must therefore all speak out when we see that evil. The strongest arguments that I have heard are from those people who speak out not for a religion that they themselves belong to but for a religion that someone else belongs to and suffers abuse as a result.
The noble Baroness, Lady Cox, and my noble friend Lord Patten both raised specific examples. Those examples are important but it is more important and powerful for us in Britain to be seen not just to be speaking out for Christian minorities but to be speaking for minorities wherever they may be abused.
The noble Lord, Lord Macdonald, asked what has worked. I can give a very personal example from my involvement in Pakistan: tough conversations, a consistency of approach, leading by example, being able to talk about how we have been through our history with regard to religious minorities—we may not always have got it right but we have learnt from those mistakes—and making the issue universal in a globalised world. I have often said that maybe it is not Christians in the West and Muslims in the East but Muslims in the West and Christians in the East who could probably foster this dialogue and come forward with some real solutions.
The right to freedom of religion or belief is set out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, but the issue is not about abstract discussions or a debate on philosophy or human rights law but about people’s lives—the right to be individuals and to be free. The right to be free, as far as your religion or belief is concerned, is very broad. It is not about the freedom just to hold a belief, but also to manifest that belief, for example through worship, dress and the wearing of religious symbols. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Guildford mentioned the European court case. Noble Lords will, I am sure, join me in acknowledging that the court came to the right decision last week when it ruled in favour of Nadia Eweida.
We believe the right to freedom of religion or belief also includes the right to share your faith and to teach others about it and, importantly, it includes the right not to hold a religious faith. All these approaches deserve space in society, and it is the responsibility of government to ensure that this is the case. We are tireless in our efforts to defend these rights worldwide but, sadly, according to recent research by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, 75% of the world’s population now live in countries where Governments, social groups or individuals restrict their ability to practise their faith freely. Restrictions on religion are increasing in each of the five major regions of the world, including in the Americas and sub-Saharan Africa, the two regions where overall restrictions had previously been in decline, and the share of countries with high or very high restrictions on religious beliefs and practices rose from 31% in the year ending in mid-2009 to 37% in the year ending in mid-2010.
In many countries, following the wrong religion can lead to torture, violence or even death, so we need to make sure we do our utmost, both to raise individual cases where freedom of religion or belief is under attack and to tackle it through organisations such as the UN. This Government are absolutely committed to getting it right because, quite simply, lives are at stake if we do not. It is because defending this right is so important to us that we have developed a comprehensive strategy to guide our work in this area. The strategy draws on valuable expertise from members of my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary’s human rights advisory group, which is composed of leading British experts in the field of human rights. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Guildford asked about a religion or belief advisory group. I know that such a group existed under the previous Government, but I understand that it became unwieldy with each religion and each brand of each religion demanding a seat at the table. What we have done instead is to ensure that some of the members of the Foreign Secretary’s human rights advisory group—Malcolm Evans and Joel Edwards—bring a faith perspective and an awareness of international human rights law in the area of freedom of religion or belief to the group. We are currently looking at broadening that brace to bring in experts in relation to other religions.
How is this strategy implemented? It is implemented by having a very ambitious action plan, which works at all levels. I hope that I can give my noble friend Lady Berridge some comfort when I say that it includes: working in multilateral organisations, chiefly the UN, the EU and the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe; bilateral negotiations, where we raise individual cases, practices or laws that discriminate against people on the basis of their religion or belief; and project work in a range of countries, many of which were mentioned today, working with NGOs on issues such as promoting better understanding between faiths, bridging sectarian divides, promoting dialogue between faith groups and government, and offering technical advice on laws that need amendment—issues that were raised by my noble friend Lord Sheikh.
Britain has a good story to tell, although we have made mistakes in the past. In many ways, in interfaith dialogue we are very much at the cutting edge of work that is being done around the world and it is important that we share that. It is also important that our policy is informed so that we do not knowingly walk into the consequences that were spoken of by the noble Lord, Lord Parekh. We are training FCO officials better to understand the role of faith in society and foreign policy. A series of lectures and some specific training is being given to understand the nuances between religions and within religions.
My joint ministerial role, spanning the Department for Communities and Local Government and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, is also proving extremely valuable. Ministerial oversight in both departments allows the Government to join up our domestic and international work on this crucial issue more effectively. As I have said on many occasions, what happens in Benghazi has an effect on the streets of Bradford.
We should also be mindful that, while Governments play a key role in creating the conditions for all to practise their religion or belief freely, or for individuals to live free from discrimination on the grounds of religion or belief, Governments alone cannot change the landscape. They need the co-operation of civil society to promote messages of understanding and tolerance for the followers of other religions or those without a faith. A climate of intolerance curtails freedom to practise and manifest a religion as individuals would wish to practise it.
Noble Lords will be aware that in some cases the issues are much more complex than they may first appear. Some cases are not actually about religion but about deprivation and other issues. Dr Paul Bhatti, Pakistan’s Minister of National Harmony and Minority Affairs, rightly told me that some issues are more to do with social justice than religion. Too often it is the poor, the exploited and the marginalised who are affected. Religion becomes an extra issue on top of that.
I can tell the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, that the Government report on violations of the right to freedom of religion or belief in our annual rights report. The next one will be published in April and will look back at events over 2012. I am sure that it will prove a source of much debate in your Lordships’ House.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, I think, asked about the appointment of an envoy for international religious freedom; or maybe he did not. Somebody did. We continue to keep this option under review. However, for the moment, we believe that the best course of action is to continue to make each of the FCO Ministers responsible for defending freedom of religion or belief in the areas of the world that they cover. Each Minister is aware of issues affecting religious communities on their patch, so to speak.
Much more needs to be done, but I assure the House that this Minister is personally committed to tackling this issue. It is a matter that I have dealt with domestically and take extremely seriously. Internationally, it is a matter into which I and my office put a huge amount of energy. I know that your Lordships also share my passion for ensuring that we make a real difference, so that we can say that, because of our actions, the world is becoming a safer place for people to practise their religion or belief freely. I hope that we can continue to work together to bring about that real change.