The Minister for Immigration (Damian Green)
It is a terrible ministerial cliché to stand at the Dispatch Box and say that this has been a good and useful debate, but tonight it is true. Particular thanks should go to my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) and to members of the Backbench Business Committee for securing time in this House to debate these important issues. My hon. Friend made some kind remarks about me at the start of the debate and I should reciprocate by praising not just his energy in pursuit of this campaign—this is our second debate in nine days on the subject—but the considerable legal expertise that he brings to the subject, as well as his contribution to the Joint Committee on Human Rights, whose Chairman also contributed to the debate.
As I made clear in the debate in Westminster Hall, the Government are currently considering what action to take to ensure that this country’s extradition arrangements work both efficiently and fairly. I welcome multiple debates on these matters and of course the Government will take them into account when responding to Sir Scott Baker’s independent review of extradition along with the work done by the Joint Committee on Human Rights and the Home Affairs Committee.
The debate on extradition in recent years has focused in large part on a number of high-profile cases. Like others tonight, I pay tribute to the hon. Members who have spoken on behalf of their constituents, including my hon. Friends the Members for Bristol North West (Charlotte Leslie) and for South Dorset (Richard Drax). We understand and take full account of the concerns raised by right hon. and hon. Members in respect of individual European arrest warrant and extradition cases involving their constituents.
As I indicated during the debate, and as my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has said repeatedly in the context of the extradition review, it is vital that we strike the correct balance between effectively bringing offenders to justice and seeking redress for the victims of crime while protecting the fundamental rights of those who are sought for extradition. That point was made well by my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis). For that reason, this further debate is warmly welcomed.
Many interesting points have been made this evening, but the only one with which I flatly disagree was made by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), who said that 1,000 years ago habeas corpus was an important part of our constitution. I would normally defer to him in matters of mediaeval history, but I do not remember in the dying decades of the Anglo-Saxon kings, underrated though they are in history, that habeas corpus featured particularly highly.
Jacob Rees-Mogg
As it happens, one can trace habeas corpus back an extremely long way, but I do not think that I said that.
Damian Green
The record will tell us which of us recollects correctly.
Moving rapidly to the 21st century—
Damian Green
I can feel a fascinating and wholly irrelevant debate coming upon us, Mr Speaker.
Mr Blunkett
I just want to make the obvious point that what matters is not when habeas corpus was agreed in principle but whether people can implement it.
Damian Green
In his known wisdom, the right hon. Gentleman brings me back to the modern era.
When we entered office last year, we recognised that there were long-standing and deeply held concerns about the UK’s extradition arrangements with other EU member states and about our extradition treaty with the United States. That is why in the coalition’s programme for government we made a clear commitment to review the operation of the Extradition Act 2003 and the US-UK extradition treaty to ensure that they were even- handed. That was why the Home Secretary announced an independent review to be chaired by Sir Scott Baker and assisted by two lawyers—an important point given some of the criticisms of the Baker commission—who between them had extensive experience of extradition from prosecution and defence perspectives.
As I made clear during the debate in Westminster Hall, that panel undertook an extensive examination of the issues and carefully examined evidence from a range of parties representing all shades of opinion. Contrary to suggestions by some, the panel assessed representations from those who had experienced extradition first hand and the evidence of their families. It has also been suggested that the panel did not take evidence from solicitors representing the subjects of extradition requests. In fact, one of the panel members was himself an experienced legal representative of those subject to extradition proceedings and brought first-hand insight into the realities of extradition from the UK.
As the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett) said, the review has evidently reached controversial conclusions, but I hope that we would all acknowledge that it is a serious piece of work, as pointed out by my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton North (Michael Ellis). I have been interested to hear the further points made this evening, and I am happy to assure the House that these opinions will be given the most careful scrutiny before we publish what action we propose to take in response to the review. There is a significant body of opinion from all sides that we need to assess seriously before reaching a decision.
Members on both sides of the House asked that we deal with individual cases of particular concern to them. I am, of course, happy to do that. Let me first summarise what I said about Babar Ahmad’s case. He was arrested for extradition purposes in August 2004, and in June 2007 he exhausted all the available domestic avenues for contesting the request for his extradition. He then applied to the European Court of Human Rights. On 12 June 2007, the Court imposed a stay on his extradition and on 8 July 2010 declared his case partially admissible. His case remains under consideration by the Court. The allegations against him in the United States relate to alleged conduct that took place while he was in the United Kingdom. As the House knows, an e-petition on behalf of Mr Ahmad calling for him to be put on trial in the UK has attracted more than 140,000 signatures.
Of course, the Government recognise the concern of those petitioners but it is not for the Government to decide if and when someone should be prosecuted in the United Kingdom.
Damian Green
I am about to deal with the hon. Lady’s point.
The decision about whether to bring a prosecution is a matter for the independent prosecuting authorities, and the Crown Prosecution Service has to date decided not to prosecute Mr Ahmad in the UK.
Damian Green
If the hon. Lady will hold on a second, I shall deal directly with her point.
The CPS has advised that a small number of documents relating to Mr Ahmad were seized by the Metropolitan police and were submitted to the domestic prosecutor for advice in 2004. The domestic prosecutor was specifically asked to advise on whether any of those documents might disclose offences under the Terrorism Act 2000 with a view to prosecution in the UK. I am advised that, on the material provided, there was insufficient evidence to mount a UK prosecution. However, when the decision was made not to prosecute Mr Ahmad in the UK, prosecutors here were aware of evidence against him in the possession of the US authorities. I understand that that evidence was far more extensive than that which was in the possession of the UK authorities. Although the CPS extradition team was in possession of some of the US material, it amounted only to that which was necessary to seek extradition, and was provided to the CPS for extradition purposes only.
The extradition proceedings in this country have concluded. The case has been heard extensively through all tiers of the UK extradition process, and extradition has been ordered. The UK courts have held that the US authorities have jurisdiction in relation to the offences of which Mr Ahmad is accused and that they are entitled to seek his extradition. The offences are crimes in both countries, thereby satisfying the extradition test of dual criminality. Mr Ahmad is now challenging extradition before the European Court of Human Rights. The Court has asked a number of questions in relation to the case; both sides have submitted observations on these points on several occasions. The extradition review panel highlighted in its report those cases that awaited a decision by the European Court of Human Rights and the amount of time that they had been before that Court. The panel recommended that the matter of the delay be taken up by the Government urgently and that the Court should be encouraged to give priority to those cases where extradition had been stayed. The Government are considering that recommendation, along with others, but the United Kingdom has pressed, and continues to press, for the Court to reach its decision as soon as possible.
Many concerns have been expressed about the length of time for which Mr Ahmad has been detained in custody awaiting the outcome of the extradition request. This has at all times been on the order of the Court, and we continue to press the Court to reach its decision on the case as soon as possible. Where the Court seeks observations or clarifications from the Home Office on the representations in the case, these are provided as soon as possible. We are acutely aware of the time that has passed since the extradition request was first made and of the importance of dealing with the matters raised as quickly as is consistent with fairness to all sides.
Caroline Lucas
Will the Minister agree to investigate why the CPS acknowledged and admitted that it had not seen all the information only on 23 November, after many, many years in which Babar Ahmad had essentially been in prison? If that information had been available earlier, the process here in the UK could have been much faster.
Damian Green
I am not sure that the hon. Lady’s last point is right, but I take her general point, and obviously the CPS will have heard what she has said.
Let me turn to the case of Gary McKinnon, which has been raised many times, not least by my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes). This case is different from Mr Ahmad’s, as it falls to be decided by my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. I shall briefly explain the reasons for this. Mr McKinnon has exhausted all rights of appeal under the Extradition Act 2003, and the European Court of Human Rights refused an application to impose a stay on his extradition. However, under the Human Rights Act 1998 the Home Secretary is under a duty not to act in a manner that is incompatible with a person’s rights under the European convention on human rights. She must therefore consider whether, as a result of events occurring after the extradition proceedings, it would be contrary to the convention for a person to be extradited. The sole remaining issue, therefore, is whether extradition is compatible with Mr McKinnon’s convention rights. The Home Secretary sought the independent advice of the chief medical officer, who has provided the names of two experts whom she believes to be well placed to provide evidence on the relevant medical issues. Those experts are preparing a report that will help the Home Secretary to determine whether extradition would contravene Mr McKinnon’s convention rights. We hope that the experts will report as soon as possible; but clearly a number of issues will need to be considered in depth.
During tonight’s debate, as in the previous debate, a number of concerns have been raised regarding specific European arrest warrant cases. We will take careful account of the points made by right hon. and hon. Members in respect of those cases. In the case of Benny Wenda, which was raised this evening by the right hon. Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith), we understand that an internal red notice for Mr Wenda has been issued by the Indonesian authorities. That does not constitute an extradition request for the purposes of the 2003 Act. Generally, if an extradition request is issued by a country in relation to which the person sought has refugee status, the Home Secretary can refuse to certify the request, and if it comes to the attention of the courts during extradition proceedings that the person sought has refugee status in relation to the country seeking extradition, the courts can discharge the person from extradition proceedings on human rights grounds. I hope that that helps the right hon. Gentleman.
It is worth my repeating what I said on 24 November. We share the concern expressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) and many others—including my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Stephen Phillips) and the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart) —about the issuing of European arrest warrants for trivial offences. That is a significant issue which the Government seek to address as a matter of urgency. As I said in our earlier debate, I know that Members’ concerns are shared by other European Union member states and by the European Commission. While we are considering whether wider action is required to meet the challenge and resolve the problem, we continue to discuss the matter with, in particular, our Polish counterparts to encourage their prosecutors and courts to consider proportionality before a European arrest warrant is issued.
The debate has made clear that Members in all parts of the House understand that these are complex and important issues and that there is significant evidence to be assessed, all of which requires careful analysis and reflection. The debate has provided much more useful information and analysis, all of which I know the Home Secretary will take carefully into account. As soon as we can, we will announce what action we propose to take in the light of the extradition review.