Baroness Benjamin
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Answer by the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport on 8 September (HC Deb, col. 543), how they will ensure higher prominence for children’s public service channels on electronic programming guides.
Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, we are considering the whole picture of public service broadcasting, including electronic programme guides, as part of the communications review. We will publish our thoughts in the communications Green Paper around the turn of the year.
Baroness Benjamin
I thank my noble friend. I am sure that she agrees that the BBC's children's channels are the largest providers of UK-made public service programmes. The other children's channels provide mainly a relentless diet of cartoons and bought-in programmes. Yet on the Sky electronic programming guide, EPG, BBC children's channels are low on the list. Does she agree that this is not what Parliament meant by “appropriate prominence” in the Communications Act 2003, under which Ofcom is required to review the position of PSB channels at least every two years? There has not been such a review since 2005. Instead of waiting for new legislation, will the Government urge Ofcom to review the EPG code sooner rather than later, and place BBC's children's channels in their right and proper place? I declare an interest as an independent producer and a children's presenter.
Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, my noble friend Lady Benjamin is right. As we all know, she has formidable experience in this area and is a passionate supporter of children's television in the UK. We believe that with around 30 dedicated children's channels in the UK, our younger viewers have a wide choice of programmes. Two of these are public service broadcasting channels: the BBC services of CBeebies and CBBC. I hope that my noble friend agrees that the BBC is fulfilling its public duty by making certain that these channels play a very important role in the provision of high-quality children's programmes in this country.
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
My Lords, will the Minister answer the question that the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, has just asked? It was not about whether CBeebies and CBBC are good providers but where they stand on the electronic guide. As I know to my cost, having searched for them in the interests of giving my grandchildren something worth watching, you have to go right down to number 71 on the electronic programming guide to find CBeebies. I do not think that that is high enough. Will the Government put pressure on Ofcom to make it better?
Baroness Rawlings
The noble Baroness makes an important point. I am sorry if I did not stress that Ofcom is an independent body that decides these things, and the communications review will be looking at this. The prominence of a children's programme is decided by Digital Multiplex Operators Ltd, DMOL, and other operators.
Baroness Howe of Idlicote
My Lords, the BBC is renowned for its children's broadcasts—there is little doubt about that—but as far as concerns radio programmes for children, it has not been as effective as it could have been. Will the Minister do her best to persuade all the Ministers in the department to keep up the pressure on the BBC about this and also to encourage the BBC to do a much better job in that respect than it has done up to now?
Baroness Rawlings
The noble Baroness is very expert on these matters and has gone to the core of the matter regarding radio programmes. It is up to the BBC to follow up on its children's programmes. The assessment of whether radio and television broadcasters are meeting their obligations towards children is a matter for Ofcom.
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville
Does the Minister feel that the present arrangements for handling these matters are entirely satisfactory?
Baroness Rawlings
My noble friend Lord Brooke brings up a very important point. That is why the communications review Green Paper is being discussed at the moment. In the new year we will publish the Green Paper, through which all these ideas will be fed in to the Secretary of State before the Bill comes to this House.
Lord Soley
Will the noble Baroness draw this exchange to the attention of Ofcom and, when she does so, will she express her own view that it should be higher up the list and not be down at the bottom? Will she do that?
Baroness Rawlings
Yes, my Lords; the EPG prominence is an extremely important tool for making certain that as many people as possible have easy access to the full range and diversity of the PSB channels. However, we intend to take the opportunity of the communications review to look into this properly, to make certain that we have a fit-for-purpose system for the long term.
Baroness Walmsley
Does my noble friend the Minister agree that children’s radio is a very valuable tool for helping children to develop their language, particularly those children for whom English is not their first language? Does she also agree that the BBC has entirely failed in this despite a great deal of urging from many Members of your Lordships’ House? Is there anything that the Government can do to encourage commercial broadcasters to fill this important gap?
Baroness Rawlings
I am sure that that is exactly one of the areas that we will be including in the communications Green Paper. While the whole world outside will be celebrating the Olympics and the Jubilee, your Lordships will have the pleasure of the exciting communications Green Paper and the Leveson review, which will be looking into all forms of broadcasting.
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
My Lords, given that there is inevitably limited space on the front pages of EPGs, does the Minister agree that greater priority should be given to ensuring that public service broadcasters and, as part of that, quality children’s programmes should appear on the front pages, rather than the Secretary of State’s declared policy of giving priority to local TV?
Baroness Rawlings
Regarding local television, the Government want local services to achieve EPG prominence on Freeview through acquiring a sufficiently high channel number. The Government hope that this will be Channel 8, which is currently vacant in England and Northern Ireland, and another high number for services in Wales and Scotland where Channel 8 is already in use.