Northern Ireland Protocol Bill

Debate between William Cash and Jeffrey M Donaldson

Committee stage
Wednesday 13th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

Of course that is a matter for the Government, but I am all in favour of proper scrutiny of this Bill. That is why we welcome the fact that the Committee stage will take place over three days on the Floor of the House. I commend the Government for the way in which they have handled this. They are not running away from scrutiny. I invite the hon. Member to come to Northern Ireland, when he has time, and I will gladly introduce him to the businesses that are being harmed by the protocol. He can meet consumers who find real difficulties in purchasing goods from businesses in Great Britain. Indeed, some businesses in Great Britain—many of them, now in the hundreds—have decided no longer to trade with Northern Ireland, because it is all too difficult.

[Sir William Cash]

On Second Reading, the right hon. Gentleman and I had an exchange on the democratic deficit. There is also the question of scrutiny. In terms of the political institutions and the voters of Northern Ireland, the situation is perfectly clear, as was indicated in the McAllister case where the judge used the word “subjugation”. The fact is that people—the voters—in Northern Ireland are being subjugated to the laws of the European Union in a manner that is inconsistent with our leaving the European Union. Does he not therefore agree that that democratic deficit is absolutely crystal clear and does not require evidence because it is so self-evident coram populo?

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

That brings me to my final point, which is on the democratic deficit.

Northern Ireland Protocol Bill

Debate between William Cash and Jeffrey M Donaldson

2nd reading
Monday 27th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

I believe in fairness and that when there is a dispute at an international level, the court of one side should not be left to be the arbiter of that situation. That needs to be rectified.

On the implications of the Bill, I make it clear that in our view, it will provide for the restoration of the equilibrium that is essential in Northern Ireland—the cross-community consensus that is at the heart of the Belfast agreement and that is absolutely necessary to ensure the proper functioning of the political institutions. As was evident in the May elections, not a single Unionist Member elected to the Assembly supports the Northern Ireland protocol, so there is no cross-community consensus in favour of it.

This House can bury its head in the sand and pretend that there is no instant solution to the problem. It can say, “Let us just wait for the EU to finally agree to change its negotiating mandate,” but what about Northern Ireland in the meantime? I want to see the political institutions restored, but I am not able to do it if my Ministers are required to impose a protocol that harms Northern Ireland. I am not prepared—my party is not prepared—to engage in an act of self-harm to Northern Ireland’s part of the United Kingdom. We are simply not prepared to do that.

Therefore, is it the will of this House that it wishes to see Northern Ireland languishing without political institutions able to operate because there is no cross-community consensus while we argue the rights and wrongs and the legalities of this situation? Unfortunately, I do not have a situation for my people whereby we can talk all night and debate this Bill and its legality in international law. I happen to believe there is a necessity, and the necessity is peace and stability in Northern Ireland.

This House and this Government are charged with the responsibility of ensuring peace and stability in Northern Ireland. That is the necessity, and I do not see and have not heard in this House from anyone opposing the Bill what their solution is beyond saying, “Let’s have more negotiations”—negotiations with an EU that refuses to change its negotiating mandate and will not change the text of the protocol. I have to say to right hon. and hon. Members that refusal to change the text of the protocol simply means that we will not get a solution that will achieve the cross-community consensus required in Northern Ireland, and I believe the Bill offers a solution.

[Sir William Cash]

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept, as he said earlier, that a serious democratic deficit exists at the moment in the making of laws by European institutions—in the Council of Ministers, by a majority vote, behind closed doors? None of his voters has any opportunity to intervene whatsoever, and it is done in a manner completely inconsistent with proper democratic procedures. Is that not the absolutely right reply to my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare)?

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

I thank the hon. Member for that intervention and for the excellent work he has been doing in helping to bring about the progress we are making towards the restoration of the political institutions in Northern Ireland.

As I come to a conclusion, let me say that much of what will happen in the coming period in Northern Ireland will be shaped by attitudes and decisions in this House. If this Bill convincingly passes all its Commons stages in its current form and the Government continue to develop the regulations required to bring to an end the harmful implementation of the protocol, that will of course give substantially greater confidence that new arrangements are on the way, which in turn would provide a basis to take further steps to see the return of our local institutions.

Therefore, I appeal to Members of this House who genuinely want to see the institutions restored and up and running in Northern Ireland again to prioritise the interests of Northern Ireland over any narrower ideological reservations they may have about this Bill. I urge them to recognise the vital nature of this Bill now progressing rapidly through its legislative stages in the Commons before the summer recess, and of ensuring not only that it receives substantial support in this House, but that it is not subject to either wrecking amendments or other amendments that would dilute the framework and impact of the Bill.

In conclusion, much harm has been inflicted on the Belfast agreement and its successor agreements. Time is now short to ensure that we arrest this situation, and the only way to do that, finally and fully, is to deal with the protocol and to see Northern Ireland once again focus on moving forward together. We want to see the Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive restored, and that can be achieved when there is a sustainable basis for doing so. We will continue to be condition and not calendar-led as we look forward to this Bill now making rapid progress. I commend the Bill, and we will be supporting it in the interests of Northern Ireland and the integrity of the entire United Kingdom.

Support for UK Armed Forces and Veterans

Debate between William Cash and Jeffrey M Donaldson

Thursday 3rd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Donaldson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I know he takes a very keen interest in our armed forces, especially in those in his Colchester constituency. He is absolutely right about the role of the reserves from the medical profession. As a result of the troubles, members of the medical profession from Northern Ireland have over the years gained expertise in dealing with casualties in conflict situations, and especially in the consequences of explosive devices. One thinks of the medical staff at the Royal Victoria hospital, Belfast city hospital and other medical establishments in Northern Ireland. Encouragingly, as well as working in the medical profession, some of those people give up their time in the reserves, not only at weekends to provide training for other reservists, but to go to places such as Afghanistan to provide their expertise to help those who are, sadly, injured, many of them seriously. The first time I visited Camp Bastion I met some of the medical reservists working at its excellent hospital facility. They are treating not only service personnel but Afghan civilians injured by improvised explosive devices and gunshot wounds. I commend, as the hon. Gentleman did, the work of our reservists from the medical profession, who give their time and commitment, and are worthy of continuing support. I know that the review of the reserves will touch on this area and I am sure that the Secretary of State will wish to examine that aspect carefully.

On behalf of my colleagues, may I also pay tribute to all the members of the armed forces who have served over the years in Northern Ireland? We recognise the huge sacrifice that was made by the armed forces in seeking to protect the entire community in Northern Ireland from terrorism—the cost was very high indeed. One thinks of atrocities such as the Narrow Water bomb at Warrenpoint, and the Droppin’ Well bomb. I know that the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) is very familiar with the latter atrocity as he was the commanding officer at the time and lost some of his soldiers in it. Indeed, he told me rather movingly, as we served together on the Defence Committee, about how one of the young women killed in that explosion died in his arms as he sought to comfort her in her final moments. We do not forget that sacrifice and we do well to honour those who did so much to help bring the relative degree of peace that we enjoy in Northern Ireland today. But for their commitment, their service and their sacrifice, the people of Northern Ireland would not be enjoying the progress that has been made, and that should never be forgotten.

[Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

As one whose father was killed in the last war—I am one of the few Members of this House in that position—may I say that I thoroughly endorse every word of the motion and, if there is any need to do so, I shall emphatically vote for it?

[Mr Donaldson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that. He has always been a Member of this House who has maintained a close interest in Northern Ireland. He has been very supportive, over many years, of the work of our armed forces in helping to secure peace in the part of the United Kingdom represented by my party.

My party recognises the pressures that the current operational commitments in Afghanistan put our armed forces under and the accompanying pressures on the welfare system; the more casualties there are, the more difficult it is to meet the demands and the needs arising from them. In addition, the social dynamic is changing; military families and their way of life are changing. They desire home ownership, educational stability for children, and employment opportunities for spouses and partners. Those factors all need to be taken into account in designing the welfare and support mechanisms put in place for our armed forces. Just because things were done in a certain way in the past, that does not mean that they cannot be adapted to suit the circumstances of the 21st century, and that is important.

The need to care for and support people who have been bereaved through the loss of a loved one remains an absolute priority. Just before the general election, I brought one of my constituents, Mrs Brenda Hale, to meet the then Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth). Brenda lost her husband, Captain Mark Hale, who was serving in the 2nd Battalion, The Rifles, based in Ballykinler in County Down. A very courageous man, Captain Hale had been out on patrol with his soldiers and three of them had been injured by an improvised explosive device. He went back from the helicopter pick-up point to collect the third soldier and as he did so a fellow soldier, Rifleman Daniel Wild, accidentally stepped on another IED and, sadly, that resulted in the loss of the lives of Captain Mark Hale and Rifleman Wild.

Brenda wanted to discuss with the then Secretary of State the manner in which key elements of the support mechanisms put in place to help her as a widow had absolutely failed and, indeed, had added to her difficulty at a time of grief. I commend the right hon. Member for Coventry North East for his approach to Mrs Hale and the offer he made to review the support mechanisms in place for those who lose a loved one on active service. I am sure that the current Secretary of State will carry through that commitment as part of the writing of the military covenant. It is essential that families who lose a loved one in combat are given appropriate care and support when they need it and that the level of support is consistent with the commitments offered through the military covenant.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Donaldson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention and endorse what he says.

We hear much about the big society. I warmly applaud the work of the military-linked charities, such as the Royal British Legion, which we have already mentioned, Help for Heroes, the Army Benevolent Fund, or the Soldiers Charity as it is known now, and Combat Stress—to name just a few of those that do some excellent work—and it is important that the military covenant seeks to bridge the gap between what the Government can provide and what the third sector can provide. There is an opportunity to show the big society at work, helping our armed forces and our veterans, and I hope that the Government will continue their discussions with those charities and others who work with services personnel and veterans, to ensure that a joined-up approach is taken.

Innovative thinking is also needed. I want to refer to a project that has considerable merit: the proposal that HMS Ark Royal should be brought to the Thames, close to London City airport, across from the dome and close to where the Olympics will take place next year, to provide accommodation for those who have served, perhaps through Homes 4 Heroes, and work for veterans. That is about the third sector joining up with the Government and using part of our military heritage to deliver something that is of benefit not just to the military community, but to the wider community in that part of London.

We must close the gap between the third sector, represented by the military charities, and what the Government can do, especially given the increasing numbers of wounded personnel returning to society. That figure will undoubtedly be compounded by a large number of redundant military personnel who will need to resettle in the community. Projects such as the Army recovery centres and the proposal to bring the Ark Royal to London are examples of the initiatives that we would like the Ministry of Defence to develop with the service charities. I am sure that the Secretary of State will look with interest at the proposal for the Ark Royal.

[Mr Cash]

Would the right hon. Gentleman be good enough to recall also the War Widows Association, which does such good work in relation to the activities of the British Legion and others?

[Mr Donaldson]

Indeed; I echo the hon. Gentleman’s comments. He is right to highlight the work of that association, which goes back a long time and is much valued.

Working with the charities, building on the concept of the big society, is important. I talked about the joined-up approach, and I want to mention an example that is not joined up at the moment. At the moment, the Treasury requires military bands to charge the full rate to charities that seek to raise money to help our armed forces personnel. I have a recent example of that happening in Northern Ireland. We have one military band in Northern Ireland—the Territorial Army band of the Royal Irish Regiment—and it is made up of reservists. That is the only option that we have available in Northern Ireland if we want to use the services of a military band.

A number of charitable events organised by the Royal British Legion and the Soldiers Charity in Northern Ireland have been cancelled recently, because they would be charged £3,000 for the use of the Royal Irish Regiment band. Those events are therefore no longer viable, so there is a loss of revenue and income to the very charities that we want to encourage to work with the Government to do more to help our service personnel and veterans. The Government could address that lack of a joined-up approach. I hope that we can revert to the situation where a reduced charge is made to use military bands for the purpose of raising money for charities that directly benefit our armed forces personnel and veterans. That was the position that prevailed before, and I hope that it will prevail again in the future.

Not only do charities need to be assisted to raise money by using military bands, but the Royal Irish band, which is popular in Northern Ireland, is an excellent recruitment tool and helps to promote the Army in the community. We have had difficulties in the past with community engagement because of the sensitivities in Northern Ireland, and the band is getting to places that it has not been able to get to before. What do we do when we are making that progress? We up the charge, and the number of events in which the band can participate is reduced. Its ability to assist military charities to raise much-needed funds is reduced. If the big society is to work, we need to address such issues.