Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Wes Streeting Excerpts

Tuesday 15th December 2015 Public Bill Committees

[Maggie Throup]

I have to disagree with the hon. Lady. Regulatory abuse in charities is of course rare, but it is vital that measures are in place to ensure that the public and, indeed, the many charity volunteers do not lose confidence when it happens.

Clause 1 provides a suitable means of protecting our many charities, small and large, from unscrupulous behaviour. It will maintain the confidence of the public, the many donors and the amazing volunteers, as well as those employed by charities. I am delighted to have been able to speak in support of the clause, which I commend to the Committee.

[Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. Like many hon. Members who have spoken, I have experience in the voluntary sector. I have been the chief executive of a small national charity, a senior manager in a medium-sized national charity and a trustee of local and national charities. I continue to be a patron of a number of local charities, although I will spare the Committee a list of all of them. I do not think that, as a patron, I will come under the scope of the Bill, but as a trustee I certainly have cause for concern.

As has been said, it is important that the public have confidence in the vibrant voluntary sector throughout the UK. It is worth stating that, considering the professionalism of the work that takes place in the sector as a whole, the public should have that confidence. In a week where there has been some unhelpful and, I would argue, misleading coverage about the quality of charities and the way in which donors’ money is spent, it is worth repeating that case, because there is a lot of mischief-making going on. It is important to have in place the right regulatory framework to give the public confidence, but whenever we pass legislation in this place we should ask ourselves what problem we are trying to solve; whether the approach we are considering would be effective; and, most importantly, whether the legislation is proportionate. The measures in clause 1 fail many of those tests.

[Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Malling) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman rightly raises the question of proportionality. I would merely argue that one must not forget that the charitable sector enjoys a huge benefit from the state; after all, the tax break is a state subsidy. I do not think any of us—certainly not the hon. Gentleman himself—would challenge the importance of that state subsidy, but although it is hugely welcome and important to the sector, it imposes a burden. The charitable sector must account for its actions in exactly the same way as other organisations that receive benefit from the state should do. The clause is one element in ensuring that that happens.

[Wes Streeting]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making those points. It is absolutely right that charities benefit, particularly from gift aid. As an avid, although somewhat despondent, viewer of “The X Factor”, I notice that the Chancellor has generously waived VAT on the winner’s single, which I am sure we will all be rushing to buy.

[Peter Kyle]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Wes Streeting]

Is my hon. Friend going to rush to buy it?

[The Chair]

Order. Before the hon. Gentleman intervenes, we are way off the point of the clause. We widened the debate to include clause 1 because many Members wanted to speak, but “The X Factor” and VAT are far beyond the scope of the debate. If the hon. Member for Hove was going to intervene along those lines, I caution that he might wish to reconsider.

[The Chair]

Thank you.

[Wes Streeting]

I apologise, Mrs Main, for the fact that my enthusiasm for cheering the Chancellor went too far.

In response to the intervention by the hon. Member for Tonbridge and Malling, it is worth pointing out that the state also gains a great benefit from charities. As my hon. Friend the Member for Hove said, many voluntary sector organisations deliver public services. I would also argue that the voluntary sector is increasingly picking up the slack and the burden of a lot of public sector cuts by supporting some of the most vulnerable and disadvantaged in society.

Some of the points that have been made about the challenges that should be addressed by regulation are covered by existing powers. If a charity is consistently late in submitting accounts, that is a breach of the 2011 Act, and powers exist to deal with that. If a breach of a charity’s governing documents leads to governance problems, that would likely be covered by misconduct and mismanagement provisions, and the Charity Commission could open such an inquiry.

--- Later in debate ---

[Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)]

It is a pleasure not only to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main, but to serve on the Committee and to support the Bill, which is both welcome and necessary. I want to speak both about clause 1 and in general support of the Bill.

As has been mentioned, charities do fantastic things across the country, both nationally and locally. We regularly hear of examples of their inspirational work. In my speech on Second Reading, I made reference to the great north run and I am always struck by the general public’s generosity and support for charities. I am sure we can all cite good examples from our constituencies of the work of charities and trustees. Small charities play a huge role in our local communities, providing vital services over and above those offered by the public sector. These small organisations, like larger charities, often make a big difference to the lives of individuals and their families.

Trust and confidence are vital in the charity world. Sadly, the high-profile charity crises that make it into the newspapers and on to TV can damage trust in charities. It is therefore important that we do all that we can to maintain and strengthen that trust.

[Wes Streeting]

The most high-profile case that is on all our minds is of course that of Kids Company. Given the heavy interaction between Kids Company, the civil service and Government Ministers at the highest levels, at what point does the hon. Lady imagine that the Charity Commission might have issued a warning notice if Ministers failed to spot the problem?

[Wendy Morton]

Kids Company is one of the charities that sadly did make it in to the newspapers and on to our TV screens and it has been debated in the House. It is an example of why the public’s trust is so vital. The Bill demonstrates the importance of having an effective charity regulator and strengthening the powers of the Charity Commission to protect charities from abuse. Clause 1 focuses in particular on trusts and trustees and the issue of warnings. That is the right and appropriate thing to do. We will move later to the additional powers to spend and to remove trustees. In doing so, it is important that we recognise that deliberate wrongdoing is rare. It may be unlikely that the new powers are used many times, but let us hope that they are not.

--- Later in debate ---

[Peter Kyle]

Those of us who run campaigning charities are very familiar with the regulations to which the Minister refers—

[Wes Streeting]

indicated assent.

[Peter Kyle]

I see my hon. Friend nodding, recalling his days in charities.

The point is that for those in government, it is policy and it is not always party political, but those of us who are familiar with the regulations know that sometimes charities need to speak out absolutely. The Minister’s predecessor once said publicly that charities ought to “stick to their knitting”. Charities find that kind of statement offensive, and trustees interpret it as an indication that they should not get involved in public campaigns that might impact on Government policy. Will he say that charities should do everything beyond knitting, including challenging the Government? It does not have to mean that they are involved in party politics—

--- Later in debate ---

[Wes Streeting]

The Opposition’s amendment specifies a 14-day window before a warning notice could be issued. Is my hon. Friend aware that several voices in the voluntary sector say that that does not go far enough, but that what she has proposed is a sensible compromise that gives flexibility and fair notice?

[Anna Turley]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We received many representations from the charity sector suggesting that 28 days was the preferred option. We thought that 14 days was sufficient to give people the chance to notify trustees and to take immediate action to challenge concerns. The amendment is fair and I hope that the commission will consider our 14-day proposal as a good timeframe when setting out its guidance, so we look forward to seeing the detail.

I also look forward to exploring some of the Minister’s examples of when action must be swift and what steps the commission will take in such circumstances. I am also glad that the sector will be able to contribute during the consultation period. In the light of the safeguard of this being proposed by the commission and the constructive discussion with the Minister, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.