Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Maggie Throup Excerpts

Tuesday 15th December 2015 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

Before I call Maggie Throup, I have to say that the last two speeches, although I am sure they were very valuable contributions, were about clause 1 more widely than about amendment 2, so we will not have a separate stand part debate on clause 1. If other Members would like to contribute to the wider discussion of clause 1, I suggest they catch my eye now.

[Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con)]

I am delighted to be able to speak in support of clause 1 of this very important Bill, which strengthens and protects our charities, which play a very important role across our nation. We are stronger for the work that our charities carry out. We would be much poorer as a nation if we did not have our amazing charities and, indeed, I can cite many examples in my own constituency. Millions of people every day rely on charities, and millions of people every day willingly give up their time to volunteer. It is the hundreds of thousands of generous volunteers who really make a difference, and 41% of people reported that they took part in volunteering last year. That is a massive 21 million people across the UK. Trustees play an important role in charities, and in the past I have been a trustee for two different charities. Before being appointed, on both occasions I went through a rigorous selection process that put me under a lot of scrutiny. This is only right, as trustees play an important role. Sadly, we have recently heard some bad news stories about instances in which trustees were not quite as scrupulous as they should have been. That should not happen, as it reflects badly across the whole charitable sector.

The Charity Commission has a wide range of powers, but they need to be strengthened. It is only right that the regulator has the powers that charity users and volunteers expect. Those powers are there to protect the charity, but ultimately they protect charity users, who are likely to be the most vulnerable people in our society. I do not believe that the powers included in the Bill are draconian; they fill a crucial gap. Clause 1 provides an effective way of handling low-level breaches of statutory provisions of the Charities Act 2011. It fills the gap between the existing situation in which the Charity Commission can give advice and guidance and the nuclear option of statutory inquiry. I am sure that every charity will welcome this gap being filled. In effect, it will put a charity on notice, and will help to prevent it from reaching a position where that nuclear option is required without an interim warning.

Clause 1 lays out very clearly the steps that the Charity Commission will have to take if it needs to issue an official warning to a charity or charity trustee. Such clear steps are important for the Commission, for charities and for trustees. I do not believe that amendment 2 is necessary, because the notice period it contains could work against what the Charity Commission is trying to do and what the Bill is trying to do. A lot of evidence could be destroyed in that notice period. As has been indicated, it would not allow time-sensitive issue or breaches to be handled in an effective way.

[Jo Stevens]

The hon. Lady has suggested that if notice of a warning was given, evidence would be destroyed. Are there any examples of that happening?

[Maggie Throup]

I think not only in the charity sector but across the board, evidence can be destroyed or changes made very rapidly, so the provision would begin to undermine the purpose of the Bill, which tries to help charities rather than be too draconian. That is the measure we want to take with this clause.

[Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend acknowledge that most regulators in other spheres have the power to issue warnings without notice? For example, the Financial Conduct Authority has those powers for precisely the reasons that she has just given.

[Maggie Throup]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. That is probably why the measure is in the Bill. It mimics what is happening across the board with other regulators.

[Peter Kyle]

I am extremely grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. If a charity has reached the point where its trustees are destroying evidence, does she not agree that it has probably reached the point where a warning notice is not sufficient in the first place?

[Maggie Throup]

The problem is that if the evidence has been destroyed, no one knows whether it was there. That is the case I want to make. We want to make sure that correct action can be taken in a timely fashion.

[Anna Turley]

The hon. Lady said that the measure could make the powers of the Charity Commission similar to those of other regulators. However, while many other regulators have the power to issue warning notices, they are often exercisable only in the case of a breach of a statutory requirement. This proposed power goes much further than that. A warning can be given on the strength of

“a breach of trust or duty or other misconduct or mismanagement”.

The hon. Lady will agree that that gives the Bill a fairly broad scope. The adverse publicity and possibility of more severe regulatory action that could flow from that would not match what had actually been breached at that stage.

[Maggie Throup]

I have to disagree with the hon. Lady. Regulatory abuse in charities is of course rare, but it is vital that measures are in place to ensure that the public and, indeed, the many charity volunteers do not lose confidence when it happens.

Clause 1 provides a suitable means of protecting our many charities, small and large, from unscrupulous behaviour. It will maintain the confidence of the public, the many donors and the amazing volunteers, as well as those employed by charities. I am delighted to have been able to speak in support of the clause, which I commend to the Committee.

[Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. Like many hon. Members who have spoken, I have experience in the voluntary sector. I have been the chief executive of a small national charity, a senior manager in a medium-sized national charity and a trustee of local and national charities. I continue to be a patron of a number of local charities, although I will spare the Committee a list of all of them. I do not think that, as a patron, I will come under the scope of the Bill, but as a trustee I certainly have cause for concern.

As has been said, it is important that the public have confidence in the vibrant voluntary sector throughout the UK. It is worth stating that, considering the professionalism of the work that takes place in the sector as a whole, the public should have that confidence. In a week where there has been some unhelpful and, I would argue, misleading coverage about the quality of charities and the way in which donors’ money is spent, it is worth repeating that case, because there is a lot of mischief-making going on. It is important to have in place the right regulatory framework to give the public confidence, but whenever we pass legislation in this place we should ask ourselves what problem we are trying to solve; whether the approach we are considering would be effective; and, most importantly, whether the legislation is proportionate. The measures in clause 1 fail many of those tests.