Cost of Living Support

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

Thursday 22nd June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I hope I can help the noble Lord. As I have already mentioned, inflation really is one of the Prime Minister’s key priorities. He has made it clear, as we have, that reducing inflation is absolutely key. He also speaks about growth, while making it clear that growth comes as a secondary item to inflation. However, it is also important that the economy grows. In previous answers, I have made it clear that we are doing as much as we possibly can to look at what more banks can do to be helpful. One thing which I have not said is that we are working closely with the Bank of England, while making it clear that the Bank is independent in also working as hard as it is in the fight to bring down inflation. It is not just us in the UK; as others have said, there are similar issues in other countries, particularly in Europe. However, I realise that in the UK we still have a lot of work to do.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister looks to a negotiation with the banks to provide better terms to mortgage holders who are under pressure. He must surely accept that the banks will offer those terms to those they deem their most attractive customers, not to low-income house owners, who cannot take the required flexibility of interest-only or a long extension to their mortgage’s life. That is the group, surely, which needs to be served by an emergency mortgage fund to rescue this situation. Surely he could find the money to support those who will see their mortgages rise by more than 10% of their disposable income and take the money back from the banks, which are seeing bumper profits off the back of rising interest rates.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I certainly note what the noble Baroness has said. I have mentioned already that the Chancellor is meeting the banks. I do not want to pre-empt the outcome of those discussions. What is important are the initiatives we have taken already to help people. There is support for people who have mortgages. We have increased the generosity and availability of the support for mortgage interest scheme, meaning that those on universal credit can apply for a loan to help cover interest repayments after three months rather than nine and can now receive support while working.

A new Financial Conduct Authority customer duty, coming into effect next month, will ensure that firms put customers first, delivering fair value and ensuring good outcomes for those in financial difficulty. The noble Baroness raises a very important point and I hope that further measures can be produced. We await the outcome of discussions.

Tax-free Shopping

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

Thursday 15th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

Well, it has been considered—as I say, we had a round table in November—and the benefit is pretty marginal. As far as I can tell from walking around London, the visitors are still flooding into Britain. We also need to look to next year, when we have the Coronation, and remember that we must look after the visitors who come here. But, as I pointed out, the actual benefits are marginal.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, will the Government consider doing a proper cost-benefit analysis of this, which they have never done? Small shops are very much reporting that the actual spend has dropped very significantly. At a time when retail is under so much pressure, that additional loss will drive people out of business.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

We do not have any plans to analyse this further. As I have said before, fewer than one in 10 non-EU visitors used the previous VAT-free shopping scheme, indicating that it is really not a pull factor for tourists. Canada and New Zealand also do not offer this type of tax-free shopping on the high street, and the USA does not have a countrywide system, yet all these countries are popular tourist destinations.

Pensions Tax Relief: Employment and Retention

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

Tuesday 1st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I recognise some of what the noble Lord has mentioned. In recognition of the impact that pension tax has on senior clinicians in the NHS, and to improve staff retention, which was part of the subject of the last Question, the Government announced changes to the NHS pension scheme on 22 September. These include changing the pension rules regarding inflation, encouraging NHS trusts to offer so-called pension recycling—the noble Lord will know more about this than me—and implementing permanent retirement flexibilities to allow experienced staff to return to service or stay in service longer.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, could the Minister go back and look at this, and take it very seriously? We are in a situation where, with £1 of additional income, an individual at a senior level can face something like £30,000 in additional tax liability—and that is just in year 1. This applies to medics who have worked on the battlefield in places like Afghanistan and in our emergency rooms. They have begged to be allowed to work unpaid so that they do not trigger the impact of the pension allowance cliff edge. This is a problem of bad legislation and a lack of flexibility within the schemes, both of which could be rectified with some decent attention.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I note what the noble Baroness has said, but, on her point about flexibility, one of the actions that we have taken is extending partial retirement; for example, by allowing more NHS staff to take part of their pension while continuing to work and build further pension rights. We have also extended flexibilities enacted in response to the pandemic by suspending the 16-hour rule, which requires some pension scheme members to work no more than 16 hours per week if they return to NHS employment. So I reassure the noble Baroness that we have taken action, and I am sure that there is more that we can do.

Incomes and Prices

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

Monday 31st October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, the TUC today reported that 1.8 million public sector workers are seriously considering quitting because of the very low, nominal pay rises that they have received, which were well below real inflation and low compared to the private sector. Do the Government accept that if even a small portion of those workers go through and quit, our public services are essentially up the creek without a paddle? What are the Government are doing to stem departures?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

We are certainly very aware of these pressures. The uplifts to which I alluded in my earlier answer are the highest in nearly 20 years, reflecting the vital contributions that public sector workers make to our country and the cost of living pressures facing households. More than 2 million workers will benefit across the country. I should also say to the noble Baroness that most overall pay awards in the public sector are similar to those in the private sector.

Health and Social Care Levy (Repeal) Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

2nd reading & Committee negatived & 3rd reading
Monday 17th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

Absolutely; I am more than happy to do that for the noble Lord and for the whole House.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

This is an interesting question. I do not want to take up the time of the House but I think the two noble Lords are talking right past each other. One is basically saying that the rich pay 60% of all income tax, but they receive far more than 60% of all income, so I think that is the issue that links the comments between them. Perhaps the letter might deal with that.

[Lord Sikka (Lab)]

My Lords—

Public Spending: Borrowing Increase

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

Thursday 13th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My noble friend is right. The Government are reducing the tax burden by delivering tax cuts worth around £45 billion by 2026-27. We know that is for both individuals, through the EPG, and businesses, through reversing the increase in corporation tax from 19% to 25%. It is an ambitious first step towards this mission of cutting taxes. However, as I said earlier, this includes looking at the public sector and liberating, in particular, the private sector.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

Yesterday, the Prime Minister was very clear that there would be no cuts in funding for public services. Could the Minister clarify whether she meant no cuts in real or nominal terms? Public services will be very badly hit if this is protection in only nominal terms and they have to absorb all the costs of inflation, well in excess of 10%.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I am well aware of what the Prime Minister said yesterday. I reiterate that the 2021 spending review set out the departmental budgets for three years and overall departmental spending is still growing in real terms. It also cited that 5% efficiency savings against day-to-day budgets would be looked at for 2024-25. Having said all that, a reprioritisation, efficiency and productivity review has been announced and will be undertaken.

Economic Situation

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

Thursday 13th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

The noble Lord will not expect me to agree with much, or any, of what he says, because it was right that the Government took a very rapid step to support those in the lowest socioeconomic groups, particularly on the energy costs. In terms of the tax reductions, this is part of the plan, in line with the growth plan that will be announced on 31 October, which will kickstart the economy. It is absolutely right that this happens, given that growth has been lagging, having been on average about 2.5% between 1949 and 2007, just before the financial crash. Therefore, it is right that we should look to make some changes. We believe that these are the right changes and that they will benefit all in the long run.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, I have a very specific question. Given the turbulence in the financial markets, can the Minister, on the record, give an assurance to pensioners and future pensioners in defined benefit pension schemes that their pensions are safe, and that the Government will act if necessary to keep them safe?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

There are two points to raise on this front. The pensions are confirmed. The decisions being taken by the Bank of England are enough to respond to the market turbulence by undertaking certain measures to restore ordinary market conditions. This will feed through to the pension funds, which are already adjusting their portfolios to balance between collateral-linked funds and cash-readiness.

UK Infrastructure Bank Bill [HL]

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

Committee stage & Lords Hansard - Part 2
Tuesday 14th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

I will come very quickly to the rescue. Because we are so often together on finance Bills, I can absolutely assure the House that the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, uses the phrase “well-paid jobs”, as well as “good jobs” and “quality jobs”, very frequently, even if the short-hand today has been just “jobs”.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps I may be allowed to intervene with a response. I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this short debate. The baton has been passed to me temporarily.

The amendments in this group broadly focus on the operational aspects of the bank and so clearly my remarks will seek to address those. I start with Amendments 14 and 29 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Vaux. The approach of the Bill has been to add in what we think is necessary. We do not believe that setting out the details of the operating principles for the bank, which are set out clearly in the framework document, is required in legislation. I am very aware that this takes us back to a key theme of some of the debates today. I was extremely grateful for the views of my noble friend Lady Noakes—if I heard her correctly—supporting the view that we do not want to get into too much detail in this respect, for a very good reason.

Amendment 32, spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, would ensure that the strategic steer includes a reference to the creation of jobs. I am pleased to inform him that, in the strategic steer issued in March, there were two references to job creation. I of course build upon the comments made by my noble friend Lady Penn in an earlier debate, and indeed the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, has raised the matter just now. I add to what has been said already two examples I would like to give from the strategic steer in respect of job creation.

First, the bank’s framework document explained this objective as supporting growth

“through better connectedness, opportunities for new jobs, and high levels of productivity.”

Secondly, the bank’s existing objectives are to help tackle climate change, as we know, particularly meeting the Government’s net-zero emissions target by 2050, and to support regional and local economic growth through better connectedness, opportunities for new jobs and higher levels of productivity. I think that these comments play reasonably well in answering the questions raised in an earlier debate, particularly by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, and the noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale, who is not in his place, and link with the levelling-up agenda. The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, are absolutely right that our aspiration, and the necessity, is the creation of high-quality jobs. That is essential as part of our levelling-up agenda.

Amendment 39 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, seeks to tie any direction given by the Treasury to the National Infrastructure Commission reports. He raised the relationship with the NIC at Second Reading and earlier today, so I hope that I can set that out and reassure him. The bank is intended to complement the work of the NIC. To that extent, there is a definite joining up, as was referred to by the noble Lord and the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer. It is a complementary rather than a duplicative process, and an assessment of the UK’s long-term economic infrastructure needs. Central government will then decide on any policy response to the NIC’s recommendations, and UKIB will consider the case for providing financing to support projects within the economic infrastructure sectors that are within the remit of both the NIC and the bank.

The NIC provides recommendations to the Government which the Government then act on. It would not be appropriate to remove that part of the process. Additionally, the Government do not have to implement the NIC’s recommendations or reports, so we believe that it is not appropriate to put this in legislation.

Perhaps the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Vaux, are concerned about the Government directing the bank in a way that is not in line with its objective. That rather paraphrases some of the mood of the debate. That is not possible with the drafting of the Bill at the moment. The bank must comply with its objectives and the Government cannot direct the bank to act in a manner that falls outside its statutory objectives.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, tabled the characteristically thought-provoking Amendment 52. I hope I can convince him that the clause as drafted is sufficient. Much policy thought has gone into setting up the bank and detailing its objectives—which reflect government policy—and governance provisions, including provisions to allow the Treasury and Parliament to review its performance.

In the unlikely event that the bank breached its duties and agreement could not be reached via more usual engagement, the Treasury would clearly be motivated to use its powers, including under Clause 8, to enforce those duties. If a scenario occurred where the bank was in breach and the Treasury did not enforce for some reason, Questions could be asked in the House or a judicial review could be brought against the bank or the Treasury regarding use of its powers, and, if successful, give rise to mandatory or prohibitory orders.

Finally, to help the noble and learned Lord, I see no reason for Clause 8 ever to come into use. The framework document goes into some detail in Chapter 5 on the usual process for engagement between the bank and the Government, and any issues would be resolved much before the need to injunct the bank.

I turn to Amendment 68 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett. She again raised the importance of independence but also focused on oversight. The amendment would allow other departments that she mentioned to have oversight of the bank. I assure her that the infrastructure strategy very much represents the view of the Government collectively, and should the Treasury need to exercise any of its functions, it would not do so in isolation or in silo, to use the language we might know better.

With those explanations, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, will see fit to withdraw his amendment.

National Insurance Contributions Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, it is very nice to have an opportunity to say thank you, and I really want to say thank you to the Minister and his office. Not only were his staff always courteous, but their willingness to meet us, to answer questions and provide a great deal of detail, was very helpful—certainly for me, but also for anyone not sitting on the Government Benches. We really appreciated that flow of information.

For my part I thank Sarah Pughe and Katherine Ginty, who gave me a great deal of support—and were sitting alone on my Benches for most of this Bill. It is always excellent, too, to work with the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe. We found a good way, I think, to pursue the primary interest of the Official Opposition while also giving space to the views coming from these Benches, and often to find common ground.

I particularly appreciated the amendments that the Minister brought forward which reflected the concerns of the Delegated Powers Committee. From a constitutional perspective, it is important that he took those on board and made change that is exceedingly sensible and constructive. I thank him very much for that.

The two gentle amendments—as the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, described them—are actually rather important. One was on veterans. I hope that it will be well received when it heads back to the Commons. Our amendment, on a public—rather than non-public—register of beneficial ownership of businesses in the free ports, could hardly be more pertinent today, as we look to bring in economic sanctions against henchmen of Putin. Once again, the Prime Minister has talked very publicly about the importance of the public nature of registers, so it would have been sad not to ensure that this register started life in that way. So I hope that that amendment, too, will be very warmly received by the Commons.

It often feels as if there is an inner circle of three from across our three Benches on some of the less dramatic finance and economy-related Bills, and it has been very good to work with everyone again. I thank also the staff of the House, who are always so supportive.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I just want to thank the three noble Lords for their comments. With that, I shall go quickly to moving this Motion.

National Insurance Contributions Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

Report stage
Monday 7th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, we on these Benches fully support these Labour-led amendments. The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, has made the arguments in powerful terms, and I will not repeat what has been said so well. Most service men and women return smoothly to civilian life, but it is often those who have experienced the most trauma on our behalf who find themselves in a difficult place. Nothing would be more frustrating than putting in place a scheme such as that proposed in the Bill and then finding that, in many cases, the support does not last long enough as life events throw people temporarily off course. Frankly, the cost of providing a longer employment incentive for this group would cost the Treasury next to nothing, so we find it a privilege to support these amendments.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, the veterans’ relief legislated for in the Bill and consulted on publicly has been introduced to support veterans as they transition into civilian life, and to encourage employers to utilise the considerable and often formidable skill sets of veterans. Between 10,000 and 15,000 leave the regular Armed Forces each year, whose employers will be able to benefit from this measure. This measure fulfils the Government’s 2019 manifesto commitment and builds on the UK-wide Strategy for our Veterans launched in November 2018, which includes specific commitments to support veterans to “enter appropriate employment”.

Amendment 5 tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, seeks to clarify that multiple employers can claim that relief on behalf of the same veteran. However, the amendment is not necessary as this is already the policy intent, and the legislation, as drafted, supports this. It may be helpful to explain exactly how the relief works. Any employer can claim the relief during a veterans’ first 12 months in civilian employment. That period is calculated by taking the veteran’s first day of civilian employment after leaving the Armed Forces and adding 12 months. Concurrent and subsequent employers can claim the relief in that period. That approach ensures that a veteran does not use up access to the relief if they take on a temporary role immediately after leaving the Armed Forces. Where the first day of civilian employment is before 6 April 2021, the period for which an employer can claim the relief will be from 6 April 2021 to 12 months after the first day of civilian employment.

It may help the House if I provide it with an example. Veteran A starts their first civilian employment on 30 August 2022. On 30 November 2022, veteran A enters into a separate employment with employer B. Employer B will also qualify for this relief, and both employers can continue to claim this relief until 29 August 2023. That approach has been communicated publicly to employers in the Government’s response, published on 11 January 2021, to the policy consultation; in the tax impact and information note that accompanies the Bill; in guidance for employers published ahead of this measure being available from 6 April 2021; and in speeches made by Ministers in both this House and the other place. I hope that the noble Lord is reassured about the policy and withdraws his amendment.

Amendment 6, tabled by the noble Lord and supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, gives the Treasury a power to extend the qualifying period of this relief, as defined at Clause 7(1). The Government have considered this measure in detail and consulted extensively on the relief, including a policy consultation which ran from July to October 2020 and a technical consultation which ran from January to March 2021. A significant number of respondents agreed that the relief is a positive step towards supporting the recruitment of veterans and could help to break down the barriers and negative perceptions surrounding veterans. After considering the responses, we felt that a 12-month qualifying period struck the right balance between supporting veterans as they transitioned to civilian life and wider taxpayers’ interests. Noble Lords may want to note that employer representatives such as the Federation of Small Businesses welcomed the 12-month relief when it was announced.

This policy provides employers in the 2021-22 tax year with up to £5,500 of relief and is one part of the Government’s broader strategy to support veterans. The Government recently published the veterans’ strategy action plan for 2022-24, which contains over 60 policy commitments worth over £70 million in a diverse range of areas, reflecting the varied streams of government support offered. Furthermore, at the 2021 Budget and spending review, £10 million was provided to support mental health via charity provision and £5 million to the Health Innovation Fund. In August 2021, £2.7 million was provided to further strengthen veteran health support, including facilitating the expansion of Op COURAGE, and a further £5 million in September 2021 for those struggling after the Afghanistan withdrawal.

Furthermore, the Bill already contains other levers to increase the generosity of this relief if needed, such as increasing the upper secondary threshold, as debated earlier, and extending the overall period of the relief. These proposed additional powers are therefore not necessary. With these reassurances, I hope that the noble Lord and noble Baroness will not press their amendments.

National Insurance Contributions Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

Committee stage
Monday 10th January 2022 Grand Committee

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, for raising this point, which reflects a recommendation by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee.

As background, Clause 3 ensures that the Government retain the flexibility to react to the economic realities of free ports and to protect the taxpayer, and it therefore contains a number of regulation-making powers, in subsections (3) and (4). Free ports are novel in the UK. The Government have undertaken an ambitious plan to invest in underdeveloped areas and level up the UK. So that the Government can continue to meet their international obligations and retain the power to exclude employers that seek to abuse this policy, they have taken a power to add, remove, or alter the conditions set out in Clause 2, which is contained in subsections (3) and (4) of Clause 3. A similar approach was taken with other free-port measures legislated for in the Finance Act 2021. My point is that there is a precedent here.

I turn to the substance of Amendment 2, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, and supported by the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe. It seeks to limit the regulations that could be made under Clause 3(3) to those that would ensure compliance with the UK’s international obligations with respect to subsidy control. This is in response to the report of the DPRRC, which recommended that this power, which may amend Part 1 of the Bill and which is subject to the draft affirmative procedure, should be restricted to specified purposes only.

I would like to explain to noble Lords why the Government consider this amendment unnecessary, and will go into the reasons, as the Committee would expect me to. Examples of when this power could be used are provided in the department’s delegated powers memorandum of ensuring compliance with the UK’s international subsidy control obligations. The Government believe that this amendment would be overly restrictive and could result in primary legislation being needed in the near future. The subsidy control landscape in this case is complicated, uncertain and difficult to predict, and the power needs to be capable of dealing with a wide range of possibilities. The Government believe that it would be difficult to narrow it while at the same time allowing it to be flexible enough to deal with a wide range of possibilities within the subsidy control landscape.

I shall go further. It may help the Committee if I also explain what in the Government’s view is a clear precedent for this power, in Section 5(1)(b) of the National Insurance Contributions Act 2014. This measure provides a power exercisable by the Treasury to make regulations to add, reduce or modify the cases in which a person cannot qualify for an employment allowance or in which liabilities to pay secondary class 1 NICs are excluded liabilities. It enables the Treasury to make changes to Sections 2 and 3 and Schedule 1 of that Act. The Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee’s 18th report of Session 2013-14 considered the delegated powers in the NICs Act 2014 but, interestingly, did not comment on the power in Section 5(1)(b) of the Act.

The power in Section 5(1)(b) has so far been used three times, including to exclude companies with employer NICs over £100,000 to focus the relief on small businesses. This policy change was not foreseen when the power was introduced and, if there had been a similar restriction in the legislation on the use of the power, such a change would have subsequently required primary legislation. This could have risked a delay to implementing the policy as, unlike Finance Bills, NICs Bills are not guaranteed to be annual.

In view of the above, and that similar powers are also included in the Finance Act 2021, the Government believe that the draft affirmative procedure remains appropriate without further restrictions on the power. With this rather lengthy explanation, I hope that the noble Baroness will withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, once again, I shall at this stage withdraw, although I am sure that the Minister heard the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, on this issue a few moments ago. It is salutary constantly to hear the word “precedent”. I am sure that when the terms were drafted for the national insurance Bill dealing with employment allowance, there were constant reassurances that the power would be used very narrowly and only to deal with very particular circumstances. That is the problem—it then becomes a precedent for the door to be opened more widely and yet more widely. The clause here is a particularly wide one. We have underlying concerns that, once again, we are getting a design of legislation that is not appropriate—but, at this stage, I beg leave to withdraw.

--- Later in debate ---

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I in turn thank the noble Baroness again and the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, for raising these concerns. In particular, I will address the point she made about displacement slightly later in my remarks.

Amendment 3 would require the Government to conduct a review, six months from the date this Act receives Royal Assent, into the effectiveness of the policy. The Government acknowledge the importance of monitoring reliefs of this nature and evaluating ambitious programmes such as these free ports. It is for that reason that the Government have already committed to reviewing the use and effectiveness of this relief before deciding whether to extend it further. This review will look at the data available through HMRC’s systems.

More broadly, the Department for Levelling Up, Housing & Communities—the department responsible for delivery of free ports, as I mentioned during an earlier debate—is leading the monitoring. It will work closely and collaboratively across government to ensure a robust and rigorous evaluation. Given that the free ports policy is focused on generating long-term benefits to local areas, six months is unlikely to be an appropriate timescale for any review, as free ports will not have fully reached their operating potential within that six months. For example, ports will still be looking to attract additional investment and continuing to develop their sites. In addition, this policy relates to new employees. As I imagine the noble Baroness will understand, the hiring process can take a number of months, which would take us well beyond the six months she suggests.

The department for levelling up has committed to publishing its monitoring and evaluation strategy in spring 2022. This strategy will be in line with key principles and best practices from the Magenta Book, which provides guidance on evaluation within government, and will ensure a robust and rigorous evaluation of the free ports programme.

Furthermore, the Government have taken on board suggestions and feedback from stakeholders and the public as part of the consultation process to ensure that the UK has an ambitious and attractive offer for businesses. Our new free ports offer is far more ambitious than our previous one, including simplified customs processes, targeted tax measures to incentivise private business investment, carefully considered planning reforms and targeted funding for infrastructure. This new, ambitious free ports policy offer is already proving attractive to domestic and international investors looking to start or grow their UK operations.

Throughout the development and delivery of the free ports policy, the Government have taken steps to ensure that the tax, spending and policy levers deployed in free ports are used effectively. That takes us back to the first debate we had this afternoon. For example, to minimise displacement of economic activity, we required bidders to explain how their choice of tax locations would attract new economic activity to the area which would not have been possible without free ports. Subsequently, tax sites were not designated until the Government were confident that this had been successfully demonstrated. This approach has been recognised by the OBR in its Economic and Fiscal Outlook, which says that

“the Treasury has taken steps to try to reduce displacement through the bidding process, requiring bidders to demonstrate how they would generate additionality and minimise displacement from other locations.”

We are already seeing positive evidence of new investment at free ports. For example, DP World announced an investment of £300 million to support the Thames free port.

It is prudent to work within these existing frameworks so that we can get a holistic view of the success of free ports. We believe that conducting the review less than six months from when the relief comes into effect will produce an incomplete dataset and will not give a fair reflection of the policy. With this explanation and these reassurances, I hope that the noble Baroness will withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

Once again, I will of course withdraw the amendment. I note with some irony that the Minister suggests that a review in six months is way too soon, yet here we are with a piece of legislation and we do not even know what the monitoring criteria will be. We are already putting horses and carts in the wrong order.

I am very concerned that there really should be a rigorous review of this process because we will see some significant losses in forgone national insurance contributions, which will have some serious consequences, particularly at a time of such fiscal constraint. We ought to have a running and prompt evidence base to be able to judge whether those forgone taxes are justified by the change in behaviour that is taking place. I hope we will see something vigorous in terms of a review. I am not very convinced. I am slightly distressed that the review is apparently being thought of after the legislation and not before it, but at this point I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, my comments will be brief, but I hope the Minister will not read that as meaning that I lack an interest in this. I am passionately supportive of this amendment and thank the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, for bringing it forward.

We all know that military veterans have a wide range of skills to offer civilian employers, especially SMEs, but we also know that quite a few—although far from all—veterans need support to make the adjustment to the civilian workforce, whether that be in updating skills or dealing with the adjustment back to civilian life or with service-related trauma. I have always looked at the zero rating that the Government propose not as a saving for the company as an incentive to employ the veteran but as a means to enable that company to provide the necessary support—the upskilling and the more social forms of support—to enable the veteran much more quickly to belong and be part of the company that he or she has joined, and to be successful in that role. For that reason, three years seems eminently sensible. The idea that it is a virtually instant process for someone to make that transition from military to civilian life is, I think, artificial.

If I understood it correctly from some of our off-piste discussions, the cost of providing support is in the range of £20 million a year. That is trivial in terms of any departmental budget. To, in effect, triple that, which is what this proposal is doing by calling for three years, does not seem an unreasonable ask—nor does the amount of money involved. It will disappear somewhere to the right of the decimal point in the Treasury accounts. I hope the Minister will take this opportunity to rethink. It would look well for the Government to take a more generous approach, and it would also underpin the success of what is, I think, a good strategy.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, Amendment 4, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, and supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, seeks to extend the veterans relief from one to three years, as has been pointed out.

Stable and fulfilling employment is a vital part of a successful transition from the Armed Forces to civilian life. The Government provide an effective career transition package to service personnel leaving the Armed Forces, which, the latest figures indicate, supports 84% into employment. The training, experience and resources available to service personnel ensure that veterans have a valuable skill set to offer employers, as the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, described so eloquently. However, 7% of veterans using this service remain unemployed up to a year after leaving the Armed Forces.

The noble Lord and the noble Baroness both put it well. To an extent, their thoughts chime with mine. This relief has been introduced to support veterans as they transition into civilian life and to encourage employers to utilise the vast skill sets of veterans. Between 10,000 and 15,000 people leave the Regular Armed Forces each year; their employers will be able to benefit, in the 2021-22 tax year, from up to £5,500 worth of relief.

This measure fulfils the Government’s 2019 manifesto commitment and builds on the UK-wide Strategy for our Veterans, launched in November 2018, which includes specific commitments to support veterans to “enter appropriate employment”. The Government have also established an Office for Veterans’ Affairs and have launched initiatives including the Civil Service’s guaranteed interview scheme for veterans. In March 2021, the Government also announced the Op COURAGE service, creating a single point for veterans to access mental health services, and NHS England published Healthcare for the Armed Forces Community: A Forward View, which included commitments to help the transition to civilian life and to improve veterans’ and their families’ mental health.

Although the free port relief is available for three years, as is well known, employers of veterans have a higher threshold before they pay any NICs. These reliefs have been designed in this way because they serve fundamentally different purposes. The free port relief is part of the Government’s levelling-up agenda and is aimed at incentivising long-term investment and employment growth. By contrast, the veterans relief is aimed at reducing the barriers to employment that some veterans face when they leave the forces to transition into civilian life. Therefore, it provides a relief for a shorter duration but at a higher threshold, providing employers up to £5,500 in savings per veteran they employ, as was mentioned earlier.

The Government consulted extensively on the relief, including a policy consultation which ran from July to October 2020 and a technical consultation which ran from January to March 2021. A significant number of respondents agreed that this relief was a positive step towards supporting the recruitment of veterans and could break down the barriers and negative perceptions surrounding veterans. The cost savings were also welcomed by stakeholders, with the Federation of Small Businesses and X-Forces Enterprise jointly welcoming the announcement.

If such an amendment were passed by this House, it would reduce receipts into the National Insurance Fund and therefore create a cost to the Exchequer. Financial matters are normally the responsibility of the other place, as both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness will know. With those reassurances and broader explanation of why we see one year as appropriate as opposed to three years, I hope that he will withdraw his amendment.

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[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, who is back on her feet again, and the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, for their contributions. These amendments are in response to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee’s report. I am grateful for its report and sympathetic to its arguments for the importance of parliamentary scrutiny and consistent publication of primary and secondary legislation. However, the Government believe that the current procedures remain appropriate and that these amendments are therefore unnecessary. I have listened carefully to the remarks from the noble Baroness and the noble Lord and, as they would expect, would like to give some explanation for our reasons, at some length.

Amendment 6, tabled by the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, would make the power in Clause 10(2)(d) subject to the negative procedure, rather than no procedure. I will explain to noble Lords some of the context to this power. Lump sum payments of £500 are available to be claimed under separate schemes in England, Wales and Scotland for people who have been asked to self-isolate by the relevant authority, but who cannot work from home and will suffer financial consequences as a result. Of course, this is subject to the eligibility criteria of the relevant scheme. Payments are intended to provide additional financial support during periods of self-isolation.

Regulations have already been introduced under existing powers in Section 3 of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 to exempt these payments from NICs for employees and their employers. Therefore, all that Clauses 10(1) and 10(2)(a) to (c) do is specify that the schemes specified are also exempt from self-employed NICs, ensuring consistency. The Government believe that the power designating self-isolation support schemes to be exempt from self-employed NICs is narrowly drawn in that such schemes have to provide support for those who cannot work due to self-isolation. In addition, the Government’s intention is that they will use this power only where further regulations are made to exempt payments from possible similar future schemes from NICs for employees and their employers.

I want to pick up on that point, because the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, asked how different such a designated scheme would be from those on the face of the Bill. I pick up on the word “similar”, which has been used to provide some flexibility as to the details of any future scheme. This is because the changing circumstances of the pandemic may mean that the detail of a scheme, for example its eligibility criteria, needs to be adapted to account for the latest situation faced by individuals required to self-isolate. Indeed, the three schemes specified on the face of the Bill have changed in their particular detail since introduction and are not identical to one another.

The Government are also of the view that, as the power to designate is necessary to be able to respond to the changing circumstances of the coronavirus pandemic as quickly as possible, the current parliamentary procedure is right given the current circumstances and means that the legislation can be introduced more quickly than the other side of the coin, which is a statutory instrument subject to the negative procedure.

Amendments 8 and 9, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, and supported by the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, would make the powers in Clauses 3(1) and 6(6) to extend the end dates of the free ports and veterans relief, and the power in Clause 3(2) to treat a condition of the free port relief as being met, all subject to the affirmative procedure. They are currently subject to the negative procedure. These amendments are also in response to the DPRRC’s report.

The powers in Clauses 3(1) and 6(6) provide flexibility for the Government to extend the reliefs past their current end date. In particular, the power relating to the free ports relief will allow the Government to extend the relief after a review into its effectiveness in meeting its policy intention in 2026, although any extension would be no further than 5 April 2031. Before they are extended, the Government will carry out an evaluation of the reliefs to ensure that they are effective. This takes us back to a previous debate. Once they have been evaluated, and should the Government’s view be that the reliefs should be extended, we believe that the negative procedure offers the opportunity for sufficient parliamentary scrutiny without using more of Parliament’s time than is necessary.

The Government believe that the powers in Clauses 3(1) and 6(6) should continue to be subject to the negative procedure. Both powers are wholly relieving and, as I set out, where this is the case, regulations are usually subject to the negative procedure. To be absolutely clear, the powers cannot be used to decrease the amount of relief that an employer can claim.

As to how the power in Clause 3(2) may be used, the department’s delegated powers memorandum gave an example of cases where people with certain protected characteristics are unable to meet the rule that, to be eligible for the relief, employees must spend at least 60% of their working time in the free port site. For example, a health condition or pregnancy may mean that an individual needs to work just from home for periods of time. The effect of these regulations would be to treat the 60% as being met so that the relief applies to employees who may not otherwise qualify.

In this case, the negative procedure also allows the Government to react much more quickly than if the affirmative procedure applied if external factors become apparent that would prevent employers qualifying for this relief. With that slightly extended response, I hope these reassurances will cause the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, again, I will withdraw the amendment. If the Minister seriously thinks that a review of the whole free ports issue will be so completely uncontroversial that the consequences of that review can be implemented through a negative resolution, then he really misunderstands the sense of discomfort that exists around the whole free ports scheme and really has not been listening to Parliament’s level of concern. As I said, I will obviously withdraw the amendment, but I hope the Government will start to take note much more seriously of the work done by an extraordinary committee, with a great deal of knowledge and a real understanding of Parliament, its wishes and its intentions—as we know, we live in a parliamentary democracy—and pay much more attention to the level of scrutiny that the DPRRC recommends.

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[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, once again, for her contribution. I hope to persuade her, with the information that I am about to provide, that her amendment is unnecessary. On this occasion, my remarks will be relatively short.

I am pleased that the noble Baroness has raised this point, because communication is extremely important. HMRC will be publishing detailed guidance which will cover the changes to the DOTAS regime, explaining when HMRC can issue a notice requiring promoters or suppliers in the avoidance chain to provide information on suspected avoidance schemes. It will also explain what will happen if they do not provide information, or where they do and HMRC considers the scheme is notifiable, the issue of the scheme reference number—the so-called SRN—their right of appeal against the issue of the SRN, and their right to make representations before HMRC publishes details. Finally, the guidance will explain the obligations of the promoter or supplier if the SRN is not withdrawn.

I can say to the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, that the new guidance is anticipated for the end of February this year, but it will not adversely impact small businesses that do not participate in avoidance schemes.

I turn to a question from the noble Lord, Lord Sikka —and I appreciate his late intervention and contribution in Committee. First, he asked why NICs are not due on unearned income. He may know this, but national insurance contributions are part of the UK’s social security system, which is based around the long-standing contributory principle and centred around paid employment and self-employment, with employers, employees and the self-employed paying towards the protection of those who have been in the labour market. Payment of NICs builds an individual’s entitlement to claim contributory benefits, which then replace earnings in certain circumstances—for example, if someone is unable to work or, indeed, has retired. Unearned income is generally excluded from liability to NICs, as it is not derived from paid employment.

The noble Lord also asked about tackling the promoters of tax avoidance and what success had been had in that regard. I took note of his points about DOTAS and appreciate his raising this issue. HMRC has undertaken more than 500 compliance interventions on promoters and their supply chains—that takes account of the year 2020-21. However, there is no single approach that will force all promoters to leave the market, and it requires a multipronged approach. This includes HMRC prioritising the most active promoters and their supply chains, and vigorously challenging schemes and promoters under the disclosure of tax avoidance schemes, or DOTAS, as we are discussing today, the promoters of tax avoidance schemes, or POTAS, and the enablers regime. The Government have taken strong action to tackle tax avoidance and those who promote it, introducing a number of anti-avoidance regimes that have helped reduce the avoidance tax gap from £4.7 billion in 2005-06 to £1.5 billion in 2019-20.

I hope that, with those answers, the noble Baroness will withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, I make the slightly ironic comment that, in the speech the Minister just made, he essentially made the case for the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Davies, dealing with the integrity of the National Insurance Fund. “Interesting”, as they say.

Yes, of course I will withdraw the amendment. I just desperately hope that, internally, we can try to get HMRC to take a much more interactive view of how to talk to small businesses, in particular. We fully recognise that people are captured by the many different fraud schemes that are around every day. In a sense, these various promoters of tax avoidance schemes use the same psychology, methodology and ability to communicate to identify potential victims. Somehow, HMRC has to be able to get down to that level and communicate with businesses so that they understand the real risks they are taking. I recognise that my amendment would not actually achieve that, but I hope that it created an opportunity for a small discussion. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

National Insurance Contributions Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

2nd reading
Wednesday 1st December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I would be more than happy to do that. The noble Lord takes a slightly cynical view of this. We need to go back to the basics of what the Government are trying to do with this, which is to encourage more jobs and investment into these free-port areas. It is really as simple as that. I am more than happy to debate the rationale behind the detail in Committee, but I hope the noble Lord takes me at face value on that point.

The noble Lords, Lord Davies and Lord Bilimoria, asked whether the policy will be effective in encouraging the employment of veterans and whether it is appropriate to target this type of support to veterans. The House will know that some veterans will face particular difficulties in accessing the job market due to injury or trauma suffered in the course of duty; the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, alluded to that. These veterans will benefit most from the measure. Given that securing stable and meaningful employment is a key aspect of a veteran’s transition into civilian life, the Government wish to reward employers who facilitate this.

The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, asked about the status of free-port sites in England. I hope I can address this with some detail. At the Spring Budget, the Chancellor announced eight free ports from eight regions of England following a fair, open and transparent assessment process outlined in the bidding perspective. That included East Midlands Airport; Felixstowe and Harwich, the so-called Freeport East; the Humber; Liverpool City Region; Plymouth and south Devon; Solent; Teesside; and Thames. The first free-port tax sites in Humber, Tees and Thames went live on 19 November. This ensured that those free ports were able to begin initial operations last month, meeting our commitment to get free ports operational in England this year. The Government will continue to work with the remaining free ports and expect the next set of free ports to begin operations in early 2022.

The noble Lord, Lord Sikka, asked how free ports differ from previous free ports. Prior to 2012, the UK had five free ports offering only customs and tariffs benefits, similar to the duty referral on customs warehousing schemes subsequently introduced by the EU. This did not offer any direct tax incentives, so stakeholders indicated that this policy offer was not a substantial enough incentive to invest in these free ports, given its widespread availability outside these free ports. The new free-ports offer provides a more attractive overall package of incentives for businesses. Businesses will be able to take advantage of five tax reliefs and a range of customs incentives, as well as to benefit from a package of other measures that support the development of free ports and make them attractive places to do business, including infrastructure funding and planning measures.

The noble Lord, Lord Sikka, asked why public bodies are excluded from the free-ports relief. I probably alluded to this earlier. The aim of the policy is to boost growth in undeveloped areas, not to subsidise public bodies.

The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, asked how the ongoing balance of opportunity and risk can be reviewed and reported, and whether Parliament would be given the information on the frequency of this. He essentially asked: if not, why not? This relief will significantly reduce the cost of taking on new employees and doing business in the free port, along with other tax reliefs, which I mentioned earlier, being offered. The take-up and use of NICs relief in free ports will be monitored to ensure that it is having its intended effect. I mentioned earlier that we have the sunset clause, which I have covered. More information on assessments will be available in the free ports monitoring and evaluation—M&E—strategy, which, to reassure the noble Lord, will be published in spring 2022. The Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, as the department responsible for the delivery of free ports, is leading the monitoring and evaluation but working closely and collaboratively across government to ensure robust and rigorous evaluation.

The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, also asked about any delay in implementing the free ports recruitment. Our focus is on encouraging new investment from around the world and within the UK to create new businesses and new employment. The Government have been clear that this relief is available only on new hires from April 2022 and have set this out in the Freeports Bidding Prospectus published in the autumn of 2020. Having a clear start date is, I think, the answer to his question, as it is a simple approach that will support the free-port businesses. There are complexities with HMRC, I understand, so this cannot be set up earlier than the date the noble Lord mentioned.

I go back to veterans relief—I am chopping and changing slightly here. The noble Lords, Lord Tunnicliffe and Lord Bilimoria, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, asked about veterans relief and why it was for only one year compared with that for free ports, which is, as we know, for three years. I think I can answer this by saying that the policy intent for the two reliefs is different, so the structures of those reliefs are also different. The aim of the free-port relief is to support new businesses in the free-port tax site with the cost of employment to boost growth in and around the free port. Therefore, the free-port relief provides more sustained support for the lower upper threshold. The aim of the veterans relief is to support veterans’ transition into civilian life through employment. The veterans relief therefore provides a greater immediate incentive for employers to hire a veteran

The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, asked why the free-port relief was only £25,000 but the veterans relief is up to £50,270. The veterans relief has been kept in line with similar reliefs that aim to boost employment of a particular group of people—for example, those aged under 21 or apprentices aged under 25. The free-port relief has been designed to support new businesses during their infancy. A policy decision was made to make the relief available for a prolonged period and therefore, in fairness to other taxpayers, the threshold of this relief is lower.

I move on to the DOTAS regime, raised by the noble Lords, Lord Davies and Lord Sikka, in terms of additional powers. DOTAS has been in play for several years, which has led to many promoters leaving the avoidance market. However, a small number of determined promoters continue to sell tax avoidance schemes and use delay and obstruction to frustrate HMRC action against them. The new powers modernise DOTAS and allow HMRC to tackle these promoters at an earlier stage. They also allow HMRC to better inform taxpayers of potential schemes through earlier publishing of scheme and promoter details. This will better inform taxpayers of the potential risks that they face and help them to steer clear of these schemes.

The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, linked with the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, asked about the gains expected from the change in each tax year. The aim of DOTAS is to ensure that HMRC gets the information about the schemes, so that it can take appropriate action. Those who devise and sell avoidance are always looking for new ways to sidestep the rules, so legislation needs to be refreshed to stay ahead of them.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, asked about the NICs relief attracting low-value-added, labour-intensive jobs. I can give a fairly full answer to that, which is that the free ports policy, taken overall, aims—as I said earlier—at regenerating deprived areas through investment and job creation; that means quality jobs in high-value-added industries.

Free ports will offer a number of benefits for firms, including specific issues such as: simpler import procedures and suspended duties in customs sites to help businesses trade; planning changes to green-light much-needed development; spending to invest in infrastructure; and a free port regulatory engagement network to help regulators and firms work together to test new technologies safely and effectively. As well as enjoying enhanced structures and buildings allowance, and generous stamp duty and business rates relief, employers in capital-intensive sectors will benefit in particular from enhanced capital allowances that relieve 100% of qualifying expenditure in the first year on plant and machinery for use within free port tax sites.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

The Minister may not have the answer to this but I want to repeat the question. As I say, port operators reported to the European Affairs Committee of this House that they had been told by government that they would bear the full costs of putting in place the facilities for the new checks that are required to export to the EU. Within the free ports, people will presumably intend some of that product to be for export to the EU, so they will therefore need to have facilities for these new checks. If the Government do not intend to pick up that tab, will the operators in the free ports do so or will the cost be passed to operators of other ports as a kind of additional cost that will fall on them in order to subsidise the free ports? I am just not clear about that.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I was not aware of the first part of the noble Baroness’s question but I will certainly look into that and write to her on the specific issue.

On the report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, which was mentioned by a couple of Peers, I repeat what I said earlier on this, which is very important. The Government are carefully considering the recommendations made by the committee and we are taking what it said with the degree of seriousness that it deserves. As I said earlier, we will write to the committee and keep the House informed on progress there.

Climate Change Risk: National Audit Office Guidance

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Kramer

Monday 25th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, is not present, so I call the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, many Members here sit on boards and know, as I do, that however good the risk assessment process, change is driven only where a named senior executive is responsible. How many government departments and other public bodies have a named senior executive responsible for action on climate change and climate change risk?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right. I assure her that Managing Public Money and the Orange Book require the board of each central government organisation actively to recognise risks and direct the response to these risks, but it is for each accounting officer, supported by the board, to decide how. The board and the accounting officer should be supported by an audit and risk assurance committee to provide proactive support in advising. Regarding the question asked by the noble Baroness on the numbers involved, I will write to her.