Viscount Younger of Leckie
Main Page: Viscount Younger of Leckie (Conservative - Excepted Hereditary)Housing and Planning Bill
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Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
My Lords, I hope that I can honour that approach. However, before I begin, I will take this opportunity personally to welcome back to her place my noble friend Lady Hanham. She is a much-valued colleague and has been much missed.
I thank my noble friend Lord Young for tabling these amendments, which have clearly generated support across the House in this very short debate. I appreciate that we discussed them in Committee, but it is helpful to be able to consider them once again today. They follow helpful interventions in both Houses, and I take this opportunity to thank both my noble friend and Sir Peter Bottomley in the other place for raising awareness of such issues.
As my noble friend eloquently set out, giving leaseholders the right to obtain contact information for other leaseholders in a shared block from their landlord, subject to their consent, will help those leaseholders fulfil their statutory right to have their tenants’ association recognised. Addressing the irregularity concerning the inability of courts and tribunals to restrict recovery of a landlord’s legal costs from leaseholders as administrative charges where they consider it appropriate will help to address a perceived unfairness in the current system, which I think we can all agree is the right thing to do. In conclusion, I am very happy to accept my noble friend’s amendments and I hope that they will be accepted by the House.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)
My Lords, as this is my first contribution to Report today, I refer noble Lords to my declaration of interests and confirm that I am an elected councillor in the London Borough of Lewisham. I join other noble Lords in welcoming the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, back to your Lordships’ House. She has been much missed and is very welcome here today.
The issues raised in these two amendments were discussed in Committee. The noble Baroness, Lady Gardner of Parkes, is knowledgeable on these matters and it is always worth listening to and taking note of what she says on a variety of matters, particularly concerning leaseholders.
We on these Benches largely welcome the spirit of what is proposed here, but I am not convinced that it strikes the right balance. In Committee, my noble friend Lord Beecham raised issues in respect of the wording, specifically use of the term “buyer” in proposed new subsection (1) in Amendment 102, and asked what majority would be required. Equally, on Amendment 101, concerns were raised about the practicalities by my noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours. How do you deal with a situation where 51%, a simple majority, want to make a change, but 49% strongly oppose it? I understand fully the noble Baroness’s point about 100%, because of course that would be impossible to achieve. However, at this stage, I think that we need to come up with another mechanism or formula to address the concerns raised in the amendment. I hope that the Government will be much more amenable to finding a way forward and not give the response that the noble Baroness had from the previous four Ministers.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady Gardner for her amendments on leasehold, which have led to a short and informative debate. I want to take this opportunity to thank my noble friend for her tireless efforts and dedicated service in raising issues on behalf of those in the leasehold sector.
As we have heard, Amendment 101 would modify a lease where leaseholders have exercised the right to manage. As a leaseholder herself, my noble friend will appreciate the benefits and the associated responsibilities of acquiring and exercising the right to manage. However, this amendment, although introduced with the best intentions, would not achieve what its intended purpose appears to be.
As noble Lords will know, the right to manage allows leaseholders of flats to take over, by means of a right-to-manage company, the freeholder’s or landlord’s management responsibilities. Where the right to manage has been exercised, the amendment would allow leases to be modified in relation to communal services or general safeguards if a majority of eligible leaseholders voted in favour of the modifications. A lease can be varied only by mutual agreement of all the parties to the lease, or by reference to a tribunal or court. If one or more leaseholders believe that their lease in a block needs to be varied, the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 already allows them to seek a variation from a tribunal, in particular circumstances, or a court.
The amendment tabled states that if a leaseholder or their proxy fails to vote, they will be deemed to have voted in favour of a proposal to vary a lease. I hope my noble friend agrees there may be many reasons why a leaseholder or their proxy could not partake in a vote. The amendment appears to be somewhat undemocratic in extrapolating a leaseholder’s non-vote to be a vote in favour for a proposal that would affect an individual’s property rights. As mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, I believe the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, raised this concern when the matter was discussed in Committee. However, I appreciate that my noble friend Lady Gardner has strong views and genuine frustrations on this. I would welcome the opportunity to meet her outside this Chamber to look at the voting procedure in right to manage and to consider, if necessary with the wider leasehold sector, whether any legislative or other changes are needed to address her concerns.
My noble friend mentioned that she did not really know whether majority should be defined as just over 50% or upwards. That leads me to believe that further discussion is needed. She also mentioned the question of 100% agreement. Again, I believe it was mentioned in Committee that the question of not being able to do anything without 100% agreement is not the case, because the right to manage companies need a majority of directors at a meeting of directors and 100% is needed only for the variation to the lease.
I am sure my noble friend will agree that it is important that we seek a greater understanding of the issue raised. I hope she will join us in looking at this in the wider context of the legislative framework on leasehold and the right to manage, and that we do not rush to make a change to the Bill. The noble Baroness, Lady Maddock, hit the nail on the head when she said that this was a challenging and complex issue. Although she did not say this, I believe this is something that should not be rushed and we should look into it in a lot more detail.
Amendment 102 was also debated in Committee and raised by my noble friend Lady Gardner. As I said, I agree with my noble friend on the importance of there being sufficient funds available for the repair and maintenance of leasehold blocks. Sinking funds can indeed play an important role in mitigating large, one-off service charge demands. However, as I set out in Committee, I believe that these concerns are unfounded. This amendment, while well intentioned, would conflict with existing requirements and responsibilities under the terms of the lease and the existing legal contract between the freeholder and leaseholder.
A lease provides for the collection of service charges for the maintenance of the block. In many cases, provision is also made for money to be collected to support a sinking fund. Where it does not—this is important—legislation makes it possible to seek a variation of the lease to provide for a sinking fund. It is sensible, clear and workable for the person responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the building also to be responsible for any sinking fund. Separating this responsibility would create conflict and confusion with the existing lease, as would trying to dovetail separate responsibilities with the existing arrangements. Importantly, legislation enables the freeholder to be held to account on service charges, including any sinking fund. Leaseholders have the right to challenge the reasonableness of service charge amounts being sought, whether for day-to- day use or towards a sinking fund.
My noble friend raised the matter of a sinking fund and those with very small incomes, which is a fair point. Additional payments into sinking funds could be extremely difficult for those on small fixed incomes and it would not be right to force them to have a sinking fund if it was not already implicit in the lease when the funds may not be needed immediately or for many years.
I should like to address a matter that was raised by the noble Earl, Lord Lytton. He said that you cannot get an agreement from absentee freeholders or leaseholders. But if there is no sinking fund or any lease variation and leaseholders cannot get agreement, they can go to the First-tier Tribunal. I hope that reassures him.
Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)
My Lords, a particular problem arises which I do not think has been dealt with in the legislation. It is where leaseholders go into arrears and the cost of carrying those leaseholders who are in arrears is borne by the other leaseholders in the block. I wonder whether Ministers might ask civil servants to consider this area because it is an escalating problem, particularly in London where a large number of apartments in blocks of flats are owned by leaseholders who live overseas and often do not fulfil their responsibilities here in the United Kingdom. Even though this problem is not covered in the legislation, maybe officials in the Minister’s department could look at it and come back to us at some future stage.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, was extremely helpful in debates on this matter in Committee and he raises an important point. That leads me to say that, as a result of this debate and the debate in Committee, we now want to work closely with my noble friend Lady Gardner and all those interested in the sector to consider the complexities of these detailed issues. We need to balance the rights of all parties and consider how well the existing routes to push necessary repairs or vary leases work through the First-tier Tribunal and look at how all the aspects are working. I would like, with the Minister, to meet my noble friend Lady Gardner to discuss this issue, and I am sure that all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate would be most welcome to attend. I hope that, with my assurance to take these issues forward and look at the complexities, my noble friend will feel able to withdraw her amendment.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
If the House will indulge me, that offer is welcome, but it is fair to say that no one could accuse either this Government or previous Governments going back many years of any haste in dealing with these matters. I hope that we shall finally see some progress.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
I hope I have reassured my noble friend that we want to look not just at the content of these two amendments to address these and related issues—the Minister, my noble friend Lady Williams, has been nodding her head. It is also clear from this short debate that we are not in total agreement on how these matters should be tackled. The noble Lords, Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Kennedy, had some views and I respect the views of my noble friend Lady Gardner, but it tells us that we are not ready to rush into legislation on these important matters. I hope my noble friend will agree that it is right to take these matters outside the Chamber and have a thorough discussion.
Baroness Gardner of Parkes
Is my noble friend saying that it might be possible to deal with these issues through variations in regulations? If so, is he prepared to look at that?
Viscount Younger of Leckie
I did not say that and I would not want to give any guarantees before Third Reading, but I have guaranteed to meet my noble friend the Minister outside the Chamber to look into these issues.
Baroness Gardner of Parkes
It sounds as if there is a bit more interest than there often is on this subject. People have been excellent in clarifying and supporting this. We heard the technical side from the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, which is very valuable—think of what you would pay for his professional opinion on that; we have had the benefit of it for nothing. The Minister is well intentioned, as was my noble friend in responding. On that basis, this is too big an issue to try to put into the Bill, which is already enormous, but it must not be overlooked. We must come back to it. For that reason, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
“(3A) If a local planning authority have not prepared a local development scheme, the Secretary of State or the Mayor of London may—(a) prepare a local development scheme for the authority, and(b) direct the authority to bring that scheme into effect.”( ) In subsections (4) and (8AA) of that section”
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My Lords, throughout this Bill we have discussed the importance of local plans in setting out the vision for a local area and providing certainty to communities and businesses as to where new homes and other development will go. Local planning authorities are required to prepare and maintain a local development scheme. This sets out the development plan documents—the documents that make up a local plan—that an authority intends to produce and the timetable for producing them. Existing powers enable the Secretary of State, or the Mayor of London where the local planning authority is a London borough, to direct a local planning authority to make amendments to their local development scheme. Clause 129 amends that power to ensure that the Secretary of State can direct amendments that relate to both the subject matter and geographical coverage of the documents specified in the scheme.
I propose minor amendments to Clause 129 to enable the Secretary of State to prepare a local development scheme for a local planning authority and to direct an authority to bring that scheme into effect. The amendments ensure that where an authority has failed to set out publicly its intention to produce a local plan and indeed a timetable for doing so, we can take action and provide certainty for all communities that a plan for their area will be prepared and that they will have an opportunity to get involved in the plan-making process. I beg to move.
Lord Stunell (LD)
My Lords, I should like to ask the Minister some questions about the application of this innocuous amendment, as he has described it. It is not that innocuous because it is a power to take over the local plan process and to state that a local authority must adopt the plan that has been prepared for it.
To give the House a little background, in 2010 the information I was given as a Minister was that around 26% of local authorities had a local plan and 74% did not. That was a large proportion, bearing in mind that all authorities—
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, can the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, say a little more about these amendments? As has been said, on the face of it they could be interpreted as giving considerable power to the Secretary of State or the Mayor of London. Can the Minister also confirm that in the case of London they will be exercised only by the Mayor of London and will not be exercised by the Secretary of State as well? Can he also explain further, as the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, outlined, what he sees are the circumstances when the use of such powers would need to be considered, and can he tell us, for the benefit of the House, how they complement localism? It seems that localism is spoken of less and less from the Government Benches as we discuss these Bills and these issues. The noble Lord, Lord Stunell, outlined very carefully a number of very detailed questions and I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response to those as well.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their interventions in this very short debate. I hope that I will be able to address the questions raised by the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, in particular, and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy.
First, as regards statistics—my noble friend Lord Lansley raised this issue—the majority of authorities already have a plan in place or are working on their plan. Some 70% of local authorities—the figure I have—have adopted a local plan and 84% have published a plan. The point is that where an authority is not making sufficient progress on its plan, we have been clear that we will step in—but in consultation with local people. The whole aim is to accelerate getting a plan in place. Parliament has already given the Secretary of State the power to intervene in local plan-making, so to this extent we are not doing anything new.
The Bill allows targeted intervention in plans and keeps decision-making local wherever possible while still ensuring that plans are in place. This amendment ensures that where an authority has failed to set out publicly its intention and timetable for producing a local plan, we can take action to make this information available to communities. I should also try to reassure the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, that we are talking about quite a long time that local authorities have had to put a plan in place. They have had more than a decade to get their plans in place, so I regard this as being very much a last-resort issue. It is meant to be light-touch rather than bringing in a sledgehammer to crack a nut—and I hope that may help.
To go a little further, the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, raised the issue of the timing as to where and when the Secretary of State might intervene. We have consulted—
Lord Lansley
For the purposes of clarification, can my noble friend be very clear about this? The amendment we are debating is about a power for the Secretary of State or the mayor, where appropriate, to take over and direct that their local authority should have a local development scheme. It is not taking over the plan-making process itself, and that is a very important distinction. I am afraid that the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, was predicated on it being the taking over of the plan-making process.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
That is absolutely correct. If it had not be clarified before, it must be clarified. It is simply a means of taking over the plan-making process, not taking over the whole plan for good—that is a very important point.
We set out our proposals for prioritised intervention, where the least progress in plan-making has been made. Where policies and plans have not been kept up to date and there is higher housing pressure, for example, intervention will have the greatest impact in accelerating local plan production. To finish on that note, the fact is that where nothing is being done, it is right that as a last resort there should be government intervention. I hope that that will reassure the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Can the noble Lord give us more information about where these areas are? Clearly he must have a list of what is going on, as the Government have clearly done some work on this.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
I can certainly write to the noble Lord with that specific detail, but, clearly, we are very wise to the fact that some local authorities have not produced a plan, and therefore we want to be sure to encourage them to do so. We are bringing in the encouragement and the nudge factor here, not the sledgehammer.
“( ) In subsections (4A)(a), (5), (6), (6A) and (6B)(a) of that section, after “under subsection” insert “(3A) or”.”
Viscount Younger of Leckie
In moving this Motion, may I suggest that the Report stage begin again not before 8.30 pm precisely?
Lord Lucas (Con)
My Lords, if I may add a rider to that, anyone who is interested in my Amendment 107A had better look at Amendment 107B, which is a manuscript amendment that has recently appeared, outside.
Motion agreed.
Consideration on Report adjourned until not before 8.30 pm.