Postal Services Bill

Viscount Tenby Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

My Lords, I am moving this amendment on behalf of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, who is unable to be present. We believe there is feeling among sub-postmasters that Post Office Ltd will now have too free a hand to implement changes in what are now styled as post office locals, which may result in them losing a significant amount of revenue. That would throw into question the whole viability of many such sub-post offices and their associated shops.

This amendment is in three proposed subsections. The first subsection sets out the relationship between the second and the third, which concludes that there has to be consultation with representatives of the employees affected by the proposed changes and any sub-postmaster affected as well as with relevant consumer groups. Under subsection (3)(b) of the proposed new clause, the company would have to submit to the Secretary of State a report proposing the changes, including the proposed timetable for the introduction of the changes. The matters concerned are: first, the terms under which the sub-postmaster operates the post office; secondly, the required opening hours of any post office; thirdly, the services offered by any post office; and fourthly, the physical conditions in which the services are provided, such as how the staff operate on one counter and so on.

It is apparent that there are worries about the contract to be negotiated so far as sub-postmasters are concerned. We understand that the payment of commission rather than a guaranteed annual sum is one of the features that is likely to lead to a substantial loss of income—perhaps the Minister would like to comment on that.

I have of course looked at the BIS booklet about the pilots, which is very well set out but neatly sidesteps the question of what happens if the sub-post districts are fewer and further apart. Individual examination of the pilots does not quite reveal what is a plausible scenario: that they would be much further apart. For example—this is simple arithmetic from school—doubling the radius of a catchment area from three miles to six miles will not just double the area concerned, because r² means that you are going from nine square miles to 36 square miles.

Finally, page 16 of the booklet—this is in connection with the pilots—says this is a way in which you can implement the Government’s big society reforms at the local level. It is too late at night to play around with the concept of the big society, but surely that is particularly grotesquely inappropriate when the number of sub-postmasters is likely to fall. I am reminded of George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four, which after all has some similarities of concept to the big society, with Big Brother and so on. In that book he introduced “doublethink”, whereby words often mean precisely the opposite—this is a mixture of George Orwell and Lewis Carroll, I guess—of their natural meaning. So the big society now has big wide spaces with fewer services. I beg to move.

[Viscount Tenby]

My Lords, I support the amendment in the name of my noble and gallant friend Lord Bramall and others. In doing so, I confess that I will be singing from the same song sheet as my noble friends Lord Cameron and Lady Howe. On the basis that a good song bears singing again, I make no apology for returning to the theme.

The Government have stated that they will not add to the 5,000 or so closures to the network so sadly seen in recent years, but I suggest that they are being a little disingenuous. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Let me explain. Conditions can be created that may make it difficult for some sub-postmasters to continue to trade profitably. For example, there may be the withdrawal of the ability to offer road tax renewals, as the Minister referred to earlier, or to facilitate the postage of packages over a certain weight. It has just been announced, for good measure, that the contract in respect of pension and benefit cheques has been awarded to Citibank, which is to subcontract to Paypoint, a company that works through newsagents and garages. This is a decision that has been described as “bitterly disappointing” by the National Federation of SubPostmasters, while the spokesman for Consumer Focus has been quoted as saying that,

“Government has committed to making the Post Office the ‘front office’ for public services. The decision … seems out of step with that”.

Most of these sub-post offices combine retail outlets with postal counter services, certainly in the suburbs but mainly in rural communities. They provide a lifeline for the increasingly large element in our population of the elderly and often infirm. It is no good talking to such citizens about electronic gadgetry and the like. They want to be able to access the outlets without recourse to a car, and to experience tried and trusted procedures when they get there. The lifeline that the retailer needs to maintain is a viable business. What is additionally important from their point of view is that, arising from these services, these shoppers also buy the often-quoted packet of cornflakes and more besides. These sub-post offices are the very outlets that the Post Office should be seeking to support with the introduction of new products and services. They are indeed the jewel in the crown, and this amendment seeks to protect that jewel properly.

[Lord Rowe-Beddoe]

My Lords, I support the amendment in a general way. During the course of today, your Lordships have understood that many of these amendments are interrelated and we have seen much repetition. I am greatly relieved to have heard the Government’s response to many of the amendments. My concern at Second Reading was that I wanted a definition of “programme of closure”—“programme” being the operative word—and what that means. Now we know that we are talking about a network of 11,500; the Government have made themselves clear, and the Minister has repeated that on a number of occasions.

The amendment tries, as many have done previously, to provide a safeguard. I am convinced that the government commitment is there, but we are talking about a few years from now. What safeguards do we require? Subsections (3)(a) and (3)(b) of the amendment suggest that there should be consultation, which always goes back into the Secretary of State’s report—we know all that. We are not trying to take away a commercial responsibility from the company running the Post Office; rather, we seek to mix the commercial responsibility with preserving the intention of the Bill, particularly this part of it.

The amendment concerns—this has been said very eloquently by noble Lords all round the Committee—the importance of our post office network in terms not only of the business itself but of its great social importance to the community. That is where the many amendments to the Bill are headed. They all seek some form of safeguard while realising that a Government cannot safeguard something which will make the business—be it Royal Mail or Post Office Ltd—a commercially unviable proposition. I support the amendment, specifically subsections (3)(a) and (3)(b). I hope that the Minister will understand these concerns. This is a common theme; that is all I can say. I have listened very carefully to the speeches made today and their common theme is that of seeking safeguards.