International Women’s Day

Debate between Trudy Harrison and Karin Smyth

Thursday 10th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Trudy Harrison]

I have certainly heard those calls and I am sure that they have also been heard by Ministers in the Department of Health and Social Care. I understand that a review will take place, but I will ask my colleagues in the Department of Health and Social Care to write to the right hon. Lady with a response.

[Karin Smyth]

To add to the point of my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson), I watched the faces of the many brilliant women MPs present when that was mentioned and I think that Conservative Members are not aware of what their Government are doing against all the expert advice and against all the policy advice of the Department of Health and Social Care because of the individual conscience issues of some Ministers. I hope that the Minister does take those calls back, because that is clearly not the will of the House today.

[Trudy Harrison]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention, and I just repeat what I have already said about liaising with Health Ministers. The wellbeing and safety of women requiring access to abortion services has been and will continue to be our first and foremost priority. The Department of Health is developing a new sexual and reproductive health strategy that will set out the ambitions to improve reproductive health outcomes and wellbeing. The strategy will include a focus on improving information and access to contraception to support women to make more informed choices, but on the specific point that she and the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) made, I will endeavour to liaise with colleagues.

Draft Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2021

Debate between Trudy Harrison and Karin Smyth

Monday 13th December 2021 General Committees

Sam Tarry (Ilford South) (Lab)

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It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd, for the first time.

Our views on this legislation are already on record, so I will not reiterate all the points made in previous debates. I note that my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol South is here, and I am sure she will have a few things to say about the regulations. We on the Opposition Benches understand the Minister’s rationale for this decision, as the regulations make a technical amendment, but it would be remiss of me not to ask a few questions. We all want the HGV shortage to be addressed. Let us be clear: that shortage has been many months, if not years, in the making. Successive Conservative Governments have had the opportunity to address the problem, and have so far failed to get a permanent, workable solution.

As a result of that mismanagement, MPs are today being asked to make a decision that has significant risks. What do we know? Some 30% of drivers fail the B+E test, and since the introduction of the test in 1997, road safety has improved. Ministers simply do not know the risks associated with this decision, and whether a younger cohort more prone to accidents will begin towing as a result of it. These are serious questions that need to be addressed.

It is not acceptable for MPs to be asked to take a decision blindly, when the Department’s impact assessment of the implications for road safety is either not completed or not being shared with Parliament. The ability of this place to scrutinise the Government has been compromised as a result. We did not hear answers when the matter was debated in the Chamber a few weeks ago. Given that implications of the decision are as yet unknown to Parliament, I would like to press the Minister on the review period. A review of the implications of the decision will take place only every three years. That cannot be right. I ask the Minister to consider a shorter period, and to update the House on towing accident figures quarterly; that will give some reassurance that those involved will be in a position to undertake remedial action swiftly if a problem emerges.

In the absence of an impact assessment, can the Minister explain the thinking that underpins the safety assessment? Baroness Vere said in her letter to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee that there is not currently any statistical evidence to suggest that competence and skills will worsen if drivers do not take a statutory test to tow a trailer. What statistical evidence did Ministers assess to come to that conclusion? Are they conducting an assessment of whether there will be a change in the trend in the age distribution of drivers towing trailers if all current and future car licence holders become automatically eligible to tow, and will that be published?

Although we will not oppose the regulations, we would welcome, either here or in writing, answers to the very serious questions that we have for Ministers, and we would like to put on record our serious concern about the way in which the regulations have been managed.

Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab)

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I rise to speak on behalf of my constituents, but also as chair of the all-party towing and trailer safety group. I put on record my strong opposition to the regulations on the Floor of the House on 8 November. Since then, the Government have created such chaos, through the announcement in September of this measure, which has still not been brought into law, that I have frankly become less assured, and more concerned, as the weeks have gone on. We are now unleashing thousands of untrained, unsafe and unqualified drivers of trailers on to our roads. It really does beggar belief that we are still doing this.

My hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South mentioned the answers Baroness Vere of Norbiton gave to questions tabled by the noble Baroness Randerson and Lord Bassam. I do not know if you have seen answers like this, Mr Dowd, in your time in the House, but the answers we have had to questions asking the Government

“what data they hold on the safety impact of the B+E car and trailer test; and what criteria they will use to review the impact on safety of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2021 after three years”

beggar belief. The answer states:

“There is not currently any statistical evidence to categorically say that competence and skills will worsen if drivers do not take a statutory test to tow a trailer.”

In that case, frankly, I do not know why we are taking a driving test at all. Baroness Vere goes on to say:

“Road safety has significantly improved over recent decades for several reasons”—

we do not dispute that—

“and it is therefore difficult to identify how much the car trailer test…has made a difference since it was introduced in 1997…The number of trailer accidents is low, with the proportion of accidents of cars/vans towing a trailer compared to all car/van accidents, as roughly 0.45% in 2019.”

Over the past four years, the all-party parliamentary group on trailer and towing safety has worked steadfastly with the Department for Transport to gather data and information. The problem with further improving safety is that there has not been any more data and information.

Baroness Vere goes on to say:

“In respect of the demographics of the drivers towing trailers, our statistics show that individuals generally only start getting their car and trailer licence (Category B+E licences) from their late 30s and 40s onwards”.

If this is such a crisis, what is stopping drivers in their 20s from driving these trailers without a test? I have the support of the Association of British Insurers and of the Road Haulage Association, because they know that it is not safe—with all due respect to 22-year-olds—to put a 22-year-old on the roads, untested and unqualified, driving those trailers. I have spoken to very many people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s, including people like me who, as the Minister has said, do not need the test. None of us thinks that we are competent to drive those trailers without training and testing. As my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South said, we already know that 30% of people who have been trained and tested fail.

As I said in November, this move is reckless and dangerous. We know that 50% of trailers on the roads are already not compliant, as shown by the APPG’s work over the past few years, and that 30% of people fail the test. We know that the Government do not know the impact of their decisions, and that the so-called review after three years is a hollow commitment based on no data. I hope that the Minister will respond to my hon. Friend by explaining what on earth the criteria will be that are used to assess these regulations when they are reviewed in three years’ time. I will be here in three years’ time, and will hold the Government to their commitments. I promised my constituents Scott and Donna Hussey that I would do all I can to honour the memory of their son through “Tow Safe 4 Freddie”. I am grateful for the fact that the Government will continue their commitment to that campaign, but I am really quite appalled that we are back here again today, and I sincerely hope that, as a result of these regulations, we do not see the sort of reckless and unsafe driving on the roads that I fear we will.

Trudy Harrison

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I will try to give Members some reassurance. As I have said, these regulations will free up 36,000 tests per year—550 extra tests per week—for heavy goods vehicle drivers who are bringing medicines, medical supplies and food to every part of our country. We had 9,541 responses to this consultation, which were mostly positive, and we will publish the full response in the impact assessment early next year. We will continually review this issue and take action when needed.

It is also worth pointing out that the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency works throughout the year to ensure as far as possible that trailers, including caravans and trailers up to 3,500 kg—which I can tow, because I am 45 years old and passed my test before 1 January 1997—are roadworthy. To provide some indication of the work the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency is doing, 3,219 tests were carried out on those trailers between September 2019 and September 2021, and only 50% passed. Some 732 tests were carried out on caravans, and only 12% passed, so I am setting out the need for further accreditation. Importantly, that can be accreditation that is suitable for the particular trailer that the motorist will be towing. It will also cover the maintenance of that trailer, which the test did not previously do.

I commend the hon. Member for Bristol South on the work she has done, as well as the work of the APPG and, of course, the “Tow Safe 4 Freddie” campaign. Perhaps early in 2022, particularly at the time of year when people are thinking about taking their caravans out or doing a tip run with their trailer for the first time in months, we will be able to work together to raise awareness of the benefits of training for towing and—just as importantly—maintaining trailers. That is what these regulations will achieve: the kind of accreditation that is suitable for the types of trailers and vehicles that are being used on the UK’s roads.

I have set out the reasons why we are doing this, so I will close by saying that if there are further aspects of the detail of the review that I have not been able to cover during today’s debate, I am very happy to respond in writing to the shadow spokesperson, the hon. Member for Ilford South. I commend the regulations, which were laid before the House on 23 November, to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

HGV Driving Licences

Debate between Trudy Harrison and Karin Smyth

Monday 8th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Trudy Harrison]

Together with the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2021, which follows the negative procedure, these statutory instruments are part of several ways that the Government are seeking to address the heavy goods vehicle driver shortage. The haulage sector has been experiencing an acute shortage of HGV drivers worldwide for some time. This has been further exacerbated by the coronavirus pandemic having suspended driver testing for much of last year, meaning that the shortage increased further. The shortage affects not only the supplies of fresh food, but fuel, medicines and medical equipment across Great Britain. I am therefore grateful that this debate could be held at the earliest opportunity available, so that we can address this issue as a priority.

The overall aim of the regulations is to increase the number of HGV drivers in Great Britain by increasing the number of test slots available to drivers wishing to pass an HGV driving test, while maintaining road safety standards for any changes made to the driver licence testing regime. The intention of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021 is to remove the need for driver licence category B+E tests, which are required for car drivers who wish to tow a heavy trailer. Driver examiners have limited test availability, and this legislation will free up driver examiner time and mean that it can be reallocated to conduct HGV tests instead. This should provide additional availability of tests for potential HGV and bus drivers to help lessen the driver shortage. For car drivers, the change in legislation will mean that they will be able to tow a heavy trailer up to 3,500 kg automatically once they hold a full category B licence.

[Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab)]

What assessment has the Minister made of whether the changes will in fact deliver the additional capacity for HGV drivers that she said should happen? What assessment has actually been made?

[Trudy Harrison]

The removal of tests will free up 30,000 opportunities, and the removal of staging will free up 10,800 opportunities. For car drivers, the change in legislation will mean that they will be able to tow a heavy trailer automatically once they hold a full category B licence. Theory and practical training will continue to be recommended to help maintain driver safety on the roads, which is of the utmost importance.

An accreditation scheme is being developed with help from the trailer industry and training providers. This accreditation scheme will provide voluntary training opportunities for car drivers wishing to tow a trailer of any size for either recreational or business use. The scheme is planned to launch early next year and will focus on specific driver needs when towing different types of trailers through the provision of specialised modules. We are already working with trainers and those in leisure and business to develop the training package and, together with these groups and the police, we will identify the additional data needed to monitor towing standards effectively.

The purpose of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2021 is to streamline the HGV and bus driving licence regime by removing the staging requirement for a separate heavy trailer test for provisional vocational licence holders. This will mean that once car drivers have applied for and been granted the relevant provisional entitlement to drive an HGV or bus, they can then take a full HGV or bus driving test that includes towing a heavy trailer without first having to pass the rigid HGV or bus test stage. Road safety standards will be maintained as, in order to obtain this full licence, drivers must still prove competency in all required areas to pass the test. There is no change in the test standards. Together, these measures are expected to free up 3,300 additional test appointments every month, thereby helping to reduce the acute shortage of approximately 39,000 heavy goods vehicle drivers we were experiencing as of June 2021.

The SIs support the streamlining of testing to increase the number of HGV tests taking place. Keeping our roads safe is of paramount importance, and we will monitor and take action if needed, if our roads become less safe. The SIs are just one of the 28 interventions the Government are putting in place to tackle this issue and to help reduce the strain on our national supply chains.