Francis Report

Debate between Tony Baldry and Joan Walley

Wednesday 5th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Joan Walley]

I am conscious that many hon. Members want to speak. My hon. Friend has pre-empted two points that I want to make, so I will go straight to them.

If we accept that it is the trust special administrator’s report that is taking us forward in north Staffordshire in respect of the application by the University Hospital of North Staffordshire to take over Stafford hospital, there are two aspects to consider. The first is that there is a revenue shortfall of £4 million; and secondly, there is a capital shortfall of £29 million. I raised that matter at Prime Minister’s Question Time last week without realising that I was doing so prior to the written statement having been made available to the House of Commons. It is vital that the Government recognise that this gap must somehow be closed as the University Hospital of North Staffordshire moves forward, possibly under a new name, in taking on responsibility for this. In looking at the figures that have been put forward by the very diligent and committed directors and staff at UHNS, it is vital that the Government take account of the fact that in making a bid to take on services, those people know what they are doing, they have the expertise, and they know what changes will be needed for capital investment in Stoke and in Stafford. The gap should be closed; otherwise, Stoke-on-Trent will end up paying for the cost of bailing out Stafford hospital.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

Will the hon. Lady kindly explain to those of us who are not Staffordshire colleagues what the relationship is between the trust special administrator and the clinical commissioning group? It is helpful to try to understand who is running the NHS in Staffordshire, because what is happening there today may well happen in Oxfordshire tomorrow.

[Joan Walley]

It was suggested earlier that we might need a special debate, at length, solely on the trust special administrator, so that we can look at how this is being resolved in Staffordshire, and I would agree with that. There was also a suggestion in a previous debate that we need a debate solely on the Care Bill and its implications for changing that. Lots of different things are going on in parallel, but not in an integrated way. The real failure would be for the Government to allow the two procedures to go forward without understanding the changes made in the Health and Social Care Act 2012 which shift all the responsibility from the Secretary of State down to the commissioning bodies.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Here we are again trying to find some way of having a centralised Government system, when no matter what anybody says to the TSA or to anybody else, if the local commissioning group chooses not to go ahead and commission the services that the TSA has identified and the Government have said will be funded, those services will not be provided. I cannot understand how we are in this situation where we are not looking at all the implications of what is happening.

When the Government announced last week in a written statement that they had accepted in full the recommendations of the TSA’s report, I expected that, as a result, the UHNS would proceed quickly to implement what had been agreed in the hope that there would be a process to close the funding gap in one way or another.

The problem that I wish to give back to the Government and ask them to comment on in detail—the Secretary of State has had a detailed letter from me about this—is the uncertainty that arises as a result of the comments that were made by the Prime Minister and in a statement about obstetrics-led and consultant-led maternity provision in Stafford. On an emotional level, I absolutely agree that, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh and the hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) said, we need maternity services in situ that are easily accessible, and not only in Stafford but right across the country. However, my head says that the detailed financial arrangements that we currently have for maternity provision and the model that is apparently proposed do not allow for that kind of option.

We are therefore in a situation whereby people are, rightly, campaigning to have maternity services close to where they live, but the rigid procedures laid down either nationally or locally do not permit the additional funding for that. This is not just about having additional funding but about capacity in the form of trained, expert people able to deliver those services. If neither the funding nor the capacity is there, there is no point in any amount of hoping that we can have such maternity-led services in small district general hospitals, in whatever part of the country. The Government have to address that, but they cannot do so as part and parcel of the way in which they are taking forward the new configuration of health services across north Staffordshire. When the Minister replies, I want a very detailed response to the questions that I have asked the Secretary of State and given to his office, as he is aware; I am grateful for that.

The MPs concerned have met the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister to try to get some clarity on this. Until we get clarity, we cannot proceed to deal with the situation that we now have across mid-Staffordshire and in north Staffordshire. When is NHS England going to report on the further review? May we have a detailed time scale for that? To what extent will that delay the possibility of the UHNS board taking forward the new services? Already, 14 extra ambulances a day are bringing people from Stafford to Stoke-on-Trent, and staff are leaving Stafford hospital. We desperately need certainty about how this is being taken forward. When the Minister replies, the Government must set out in detail how they expect to be able to accept the TSA’s recommendations in full and then add an addendum without there being any mechanism to enable it to be implemented.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Joan Walley

Thursday 4th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sir Tony Baldry]

What has happened at St Philip’s in Nelson is outstanding. I pay tribute to all who have made it happen. St Philip’s now homes a Sure Start project, a drug rehabilitation project and an Early Break project. I hope that churches and church buildings can always be at the centre of the community for wider community use.

[Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

It is also important to prevent churches used by other denominations from closing. Will the hon. Gentleman look at the situation facing St John’s, an historic building in Burslem? A different denomination wishes to continue worshipping there, but urgent action is needed to ensure that all the community groups can continue to use the church as well.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

I have sufficient difficulties sorting out the problems of the Church of England. I do not have responsibility for how other denominations open or close their churches. That will be, if anything, a matter for the local planning authority.