Francis Report

Joan Walley Excerpts

Wednesday 5th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

This debate, which is taking place 12 months after the publication of the Francis report, is long overdue and desperately needed.

[Mr Cash]

I endorse what the hon. Lady says. I think that I had to call 15 times for the report to be debated.

[Joan Walley]

I think that there has been an extraordinary degree of cross-party support from all Staffordshire MPs for efforts to get the matter on the agenda. When we look at the initial inquiry called by the Labour Government, its extension and then its translation into a full public inquiry by the current Government, and when we consider how quickly we as parliamentarians need to ensure that we hold the Government to account, we must recognise, as the hon. Gentleman says, that it has taken an extraordinary amount of time to get this debate.

At the heart of this debate is the need not only to discuss something that affects the whole country and Wales, as we heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd), but to see what lessons the three inquiries have to teach us. One of the Francis report’s main recommendations is that it is also for Members of Parliament to question ourselves on how we hold our own trust boards to account. In a way, we need the ammunition to be able to do that. I know that the previous Member for Stafford genuinely tried to get answers on what was happening at the time from the then trust board, but those answers were not forthcoming.

[Robert Flello]

If I understand the situation correctly, the previous Member for Stafford was lied to when he tried to inquire about those issues. How on earth are Members of Parliament, with the scant resources available to us, supposed to get to the bottom of things when we are being lied to?

[Joan Walley]

That encapsulates the problem of Members of Parliament trying to get to the bottom of what is happening but being denied the information. I think that the main thrust of the report is a call for transparency and openness, for freedom of information, so that we can get informed decisions being made at local trust board level on the future direction of policy. The issue is how that is constrained by the available finances. One regret is that the finances do not come into the Francis report to the extent they might. We know that at the local level those in charge of health services are trying to ensure that they deliver a service within the financial constraints.

[Mr Cash]

Does the hon. Lady accept that one great problem that beset the whole Stafford tragedy was the fact that it was integrally affected by a target-based culture? That was one of the main problems, which I hope we are now getting away from.

[Joan Walley]

It may surprise the hon. Gentleman to know that I agree with him, and that the target culture has a lot to answer for. We have moved on from that now, and we are looking at how to achieve the best possible health care within the available resources. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) said, it is important to have integration, cross-cutting services and collaboration. We must move on from the target culture to look at the best possible way to achieve high standards of service throughout the country and stand-alone services in localities.

I want to put on the record my concern that lives were destroyed and that many people and their families were severely affected by what happened as a result of the systemic failures in the Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust, and specifically at Stafford hospital. There are many lessons to be learned, and we owe it to them to ensure that we move on and get the right hospital services.

For the record, may I say that at the time I supported the call for a public inquiry? I say that from these Benches.

Whatever the mechanism, the heart of the matter is that we must learn the lessons and move forward. It is right to debate the broader issues, values and culture of the NHS. We must recognise that an integral part of that is the procedures to deal with a failing hospital. As we assess progress on the implementation of the Francis report, it is vital to hold the Government to account for their handling of the parallel process—the trust special administrator’s report. It is essential for those of us in Staffordshire to have clarity from the Secretary of State—I am sorry he is not in his place—on future arrangements for health care in Stafford. That is what most concerns me and I shall concentrate my comments on that.

Reference has been made to how fit for purpose the trust special administration process is. Is it just about finances, or is it about the broader health care that should be provided? Changes are being introduced in the Care Bill, which will come to the House on Monday. The Government must address how stuck we are with the TSA and the TSA reports, and whether they are broad enough to deal with breakdown and failure in individual hospitals. Obtaining a resolution on how current hospital services in Staffordshire are being taken forward is urgent. That is part and parcel of how we take forward the lessons that the Francis report identified.

For me, the most important paragraph in the Francis report’s terms of reference is identifying

“the lessons to be drawn from that examination as to how in the future the NHS and the bodies which regulate it can ensure that failing and potentially failing hospitals or their services are identified as soon as is practicable”.

On the trust special administrators, we should aim to identify what needs to be done in advance of a hospital failing. In Staffordshire, we are stuck with a procedure. A report was carried out and sent to Monitor, and there was public consultation, which took place only in the Mid Staffordshire area. It is a great concern that when a hospital—in our case, the University Hospital of North Staffordshire—makes a proposal to rescue some of Mid Staffordshire’s services, there has been no corresponding consultation in that area about the impact of the changed configuration of health services in north Staffordshire. That is a real failing and the Government should take it on board.

[Robert Flello]

My hon. Friend is being generous with her time. There is an issue, which the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Mr Burley) talked about, of work going across to that hospital. The bizarre situation is that different treatments are at cost, more than cost or less than cost. It may be the case that work that ends up at the University Hospital of North Staffordshire is below-cost work, and that work that ends up at Cannock is above-cost work, so they will be a disparity in funding.

[Joan Walley]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I see nods on both sides of the House. We have a tariff system and there are extra needs in more vulnerable and deprived areas. The nonsense in accident and emergency services is that hospitals are criticised and penalised for treating too many patients when we have seen how GP appointment systems are breaking down. That goes back to the recommendation in the Francis report that NHS provision should be looked at in the round and in its entirety. The trust special administrator just looks at the detailed finances and the assumptions that underpin the finances. That is wrong, and that is what we should concentrate on.

[Jeremy Lefroy]

Does the hon. Lady agree that there is a serious problem with acute tariffs that have generally been cut by 4% in real terms every year, and have been for some time under this and the previous Government, compared with the tariffs for elective cases that seem to result in much more profitable work for hospitals? The more acute care a hospital provides, which is vital for the local population, the less likely it is to be financially sustainable.

[Joan Walley]

I agree, and in the many meetings that north Staffordshire MPs have had with the University Hospital of North Staffordshire, the hon. Gentleman has made that point, as we all have frequently. We have also said that it is incumbent on us to relay that to the Government, because unless there is a shift and some recognition that the funding assumptions are flawed, no matter who is on the trust board of any new hospital, they will never be able to provide the necessary genuine health care.

[Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)]

I am sorry that I could not be here at the beginning of the debate because of other commitments. Will my hon. Friend pay tribute to the willingness of the University Hospital of North Staffordshire to engage with all MPs across party to resolve the situation? Should we not recognise that in ensuring arrangements for financial stability, there is still a gap of some £15 million to be bridged to ensure that we can proceed on the basis of stability that is needed for the benefit of everyone in north Staffordshire and Stafford?

[Joan Walley]

I am conscious that many hon. Members want to speak. My hon. Friend has pre-empted two points that I want to make, so I will go straight to them.

If we accept that it is the trust special administrator’s report that is taking us forward in north Staffordshire in respect of the application by the University Hospital of North Staffordshire to take over Stafford hospital, there are two aspects to consider. The first is that there is a revenue shortfall of £4 million; and secondly, there is a capital shortfall of £29 million. I raised that matter at Prime Minister’s Question Time last week without realising that I was doing so prior to the written statement having been made available to the House of Commons. It is vital that the Government recognise that this gap must somehow be closed as the University Hospital of North Staffordshire moves forward, possibly under a new name, in taking on responsibility for this. In looking at the figures that have been put forward by the very diligent and committed directors and staff at UHNS, it is vital that the Government take account of the fact that in making a bid to take on services, those people know what they are doing, they have the expertise, and they know what changes will be needed for capital investment in Stoke and in Stafford. The gap should be closed; otherwise, Stoke-on-Trent will end up paying for the cost of bailing out Stafford hospital.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

Will the hon. Lady kindly explain to those of us who are not Staffordshire colleagues what the relationship is between the trust special administrator and the clinical commissioning group? It is helpful to try to understand who is running the NHS in Staffordshire, because what is happening there today may well happen in Oxfordshire tomorrow.

[Joan Walley]

It was suggested earlier that we might need a special debate, at length, solely on the trust special administrator, so that we can look at how this is being resolved in Staffordshire, and I would agree with that. There was also a suggestion in a previous debate that we need a debate solely on the Care Bill and its implications for changing that. Lots of different things are going on in parallel, but not in an integrated way. The real failure would be for the Government to allow the two procedures to go forward without understanding the changes made in the Health and Social Care Act 2012 which shift all the responsibility from the Secretary of State down to the commissioning bodies.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Here we are again trying to find some way of having a centralised Government system, when no matter what anybody says to the TSA or to anybody else, if the local commissioning group chooses not to go ahead and commission the services that the TSA has identified and the Government have said will be funded, those services will not be provided. I cannot understand how we are in this situation where we are not looking at all the implications of what is happening.

When the Government announced last week in a written statement that they had accepted in full the recommendations of the TSA’s report, I expected that, as a result, the UHNS would proceed quickly to implement what had been agreed in the hope that there would be a process to close the funding gap in one way or another.

The problem that I wish to give back to the Government and ask them to comment on in detail—the Secretary of State has had a detailed letter from me about this—is the uncertainty that arises as a result of the comments that were made by the Prime Minister and in a statement about obstetrics-led and consultant-led maternity provision in Stafford. On an emotional level, I absolutely agree that, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh and the hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) said, we need maternity services in situ that are easily accessible, and not only in Stafford but right across the country. However, my head says that the detailed financial arrangements that we currently have for maternity provision and the model that is apparently proposed do not allow for that kind of option.

We are therefore in a situation whereby people are, rightly, campaigning to have maternity services close to where they live, but the rigid procedures laid down either nationally or locally do not permit the additional funding for that. This is not just about having additional funding but about capacity in the form of trained, expert people able to deliver those services. If neither the funding nor the capacity is there, there is no point in any amount of hoping that we can have such maternity-led services in small district general hospitals, in whatever part of the country. The Government have to address that, but they cannot do so as part and parcel of the way in which they are taking forward the new configuration of health services across north Staffordshire. When the Minister replies, I want a very detailed response to the questions that I have asked the Secretary of State and given to his office, as he is aware; I am grateful for that.

The MPs concerned have met the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister to try to get some clarity on this. Until we get clarity, we cannot proceed to deal with the situation that we now have across mid-Staffordshire and in north Staffordshire. When is NHS England going to report on the further review? May we have a detailed time scale for that? To what extent will that delay the possibility of the UHNS board taking forward the new services? Already, 14 extra ambulances a day are bringing people from Stafford to Stoke-on-Trent, and staff are leaving Stafford hospital. We desperately need certainty about how this is being taken forward. When the Minister replies, the Government must set out in detail how they expect to be able to accept the TSA’s recommendations in full and then add an addendum without there being any mechanism to enable it to be implemented.

[Paul Farrelly]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Francis report is all about patient safety? What happened at Stafford is a blot on the history of the NHS from a patient safety point of view. North Staffs hospital has reopened beds to cope with the crisis in A and E and admissions on the grounds of patient safety and therefore already has a deficit. The overriding concern of patient safety must mean that any solution for Stafford involving North Staffs has to be financially stable.

--- Later in debate ---

[Joan Walley]

I agree that the Francis report is absolutely about patient safety. It is also about financial viability. Unless the Government respond very speedily, set all this out in detail, and arrange for there to be proper talks on it, there is a real danger that we could end up transporting the tragedy that happened in Mid Staffordshire elsewhere. We need urgent clarity on this at the earliest possible opportunity.

Other aspects that I wished to raise include the whole issue of special needs and the way in which Staffordshire county council is closing down day service centres without having had a proper assessment of what is needed, putting added strain on hospitals. That comes back to the points made in the Francis report about integrating services, and so on and so forth. If this debate means that we can at least get some clarity about the position with regard to the UHNS taking forward services at Stafford hospital, then it will have been worth while.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

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[Mr Cash]

I am extremely glad that my right hon. Friend has made that point. The zero-harm policy is so important, and I am grateful for that specific intervention. It will make Ken Lownds’s day. I also pay tribute to people all over the country who have taken up the message and sought to improve the health service in their areas. This has turned into a national campaign, and the Secretary of State deserves great credit for the way he has helped to co-ordinate it.

I was, and remain, completely amazed that the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle, and Patricia Hewitt, were not even asked to give evidence to the inquiry. I still find that completely staggering to my way of thinking. I know that the right hon. Member for Leigh was asked to give evidence, and did, but I place the point on the record because I found it extraordinarily difficult to understand then, and I still do now.

I have constantly and repeatedly called for the resignation of Sir David Nicholson. I know he is retiring soon and that that resignation will not happen, but I repeat my concern, as I did in evidence to the inquiry, because the whole target-based policy was very much tied up with his approach to these matters. Indeed, in the last of, I think, about 600 paragraphs of his evidence to the inquiry, he referred in the last two lines to the fact that the Member of Parliament for Stone, Mr Bill Cash, had raised the question of his involvement in target-based policies. He said that there were arguments on both sides of the equation regarding target-based policies, but I do not agree with that. I do not think target-based policies were the right way to go, and I am glad that the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley) agreed with me. As I pointed out in my evidence to the inquiry, such policies had a terrible effect on the attitude of Monitor regarding the financing issues that provided 39 of the 45 or so questions put by William Moyes to the foundation trust when it received its approbation—something it should never, ever, have got. I say to the right hon. Member for Leigh that through the mechanism of the Department—I cannot point precisely to chapter and verse—the fact that the foundation trust got such status was also the product of a misjudgment by the Government at the time.

I have already referred to correspondence in an intervention, but in the prime ministerial guidelines of 2005, under the previous Government, it was clearly stated that when Members of Parliament write to Secretaries of State and other senior Ministers, they are entitled to receive a full, comprehensive response—personally—from that Minister. I found that wanting during this process. I was glad to note, however, that in the course of evidence to the inquiry, the situation moved from what appeared to be resistance to going down that route, to an acceptance that—to paraphrase from the evidence given by the chief executive of the Department of Health—from now on, when a Member of Parliament writes with a letter from a constituent, and explains that things have not gone properly regarding that constituent’s health problems, there is a mechanism to ensure that the issue is dealt with properly. I will not have to go into all that today, because it has been rectified.

In my evidence, I also raised the issue of whistleblowing. I also tabled amendments to the then health legislation, calling for the repudiation of gagging clauses and providing that any chief executive who endorsed them and got his legal advisers to agree to them should be dismissed. That is another area that has been dealt with, so we are making progress. I very much endorse the views expressed on both sides of the House about having unity across the Floor of the House, as far as we can achieve it, on the central principles.

I agree with what my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford said about the issue, although I have a difference, not of opinion but of emphasis, because my constituency is very rural, and access to the artery of the M6 is not easy. It can be difficult to reach, especially at night, because it can be a long way through small rural lanes, to access the M6 and the University hospital of North Staffordshire or hospitals in Wolverhampton. That is my caveat on that.

We have made enormous progress. I am glad that the Mid Staffs foundation trust is being dissolved, and that—as my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford said—the Prime Minister, at a recent Prime Minister’s questions, backed plans, in as many words, for consultant-led maternity to continue at Stafford hospitals. That service, plus paediatric services, critical care and a 24-hour emergency service, is necessary for constituents in Stone and the rest of Staffordshire. I will work with my hon. Friend to ensure that that is delivered.

[Joan Walley]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there could be some inconsistency between those two conflicting things unless we get immediate clarity from the Government about the time scale in which they will be taken forward?

[Mr Cash]

That point will have been taken on board by the Secretary of State, who is in his place. One of the good things about the present Secretary of State is that he does listen. He takes things on board and follows them up. Some Secretaries of State do not always do that—they nod, but they do not necessarily do that.

[Joan Walley]

In that case, I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman would like to invite the Secretary of State to come to the Dispatch Box and tell us when the timing will be resolved, because we have this continuing uncertainty.

[Mr Cash]

I shall not engage in a vicarious ping-pong match with the hon. Lady. The point has been made and taken—I see that the Secretary of State is nodding—and I know that other people wish to speak, so I shall try to bring my remarks to a close.

--- Later in debate ---

[Joan Walley]

I have listened carefully to the Minister’s response to the various contributions that have been made throughout the debate since 1.15 pm. I hope that he will respond to the points that I made about the current situation in Mid Staffordshire and north Staffordshire before he goes on to the generalities of the Francis report. Does he accept that it was a bombshell when we heard last Wednesday that the recommendations of the trust special administrator had not been accepted in full? We are in a state of limbo. Will he tell the House what is the state of play of arrangements in north Staffordshire and Stafford? We need to know that and cannot deal with the uncertainty.

[Dr Poulter]

Again, I will not deviate from the general theme of the debate and try your patience, Mr Deputy Speaker. The recommendation of the trust special administrator was that consultant-led services were to be transferred away from Stafford and that there would be a midwife-led unit for Stafford. I am sure that Members on both sides of the House are great proponents of midwife-led units and of increasing the choice that is available. The Secretary of State has made it clear that he accepts the TSA recommendations in full and that local commissioners will have to do a health economy review to assess whether capacity is available elsewhere, before services are moved in the way that was envisaged by the TSA. The Secretary of State has asked NHS England to work with local commissioners to identify whether consultant-led obstetrics could be safely sustained at Stafford hospital. That only happened last week. We will update the House in due course and perhaps statements will be made by NHS England.

[Joan Walley]

rose—

[Dr Poulter]

I have given a very helpful reply to the hon. Lady, but I will give way once more.

[Joan Walley]

I say to the Minister and the Secretary of State that the use of the phrase “in due course” causes great concern. The new arrangements need to be in place in September 2014. Any delay to the acceptance in full of the recommendations in the TSA report will cause great uncertainty. The Government need to show that they are doing what the Francis report recommended and leading by example. Will they do that in the case of north Staffordshire and Mid-Staffordshire?

[Dr Poulter]

We are leading by example. As I outlined, the Secretary of State has accepted the TSA recommendation in full. A process is now under way involving NHS England and local commissioners. That was initiated last week. It is important that those conversations happen and that an update is brought forward in a timely manner. That is the right thing to do. It is not appropriate to rush decisions and processes because of a political agenda, rather than an agenda of benefiting the local patients and women concerned. I am concerned as a doctor and as a Minister that we must do the best thing by patients. Rushed decisions are not always the best thing for patients, because conversations need to happen between local commissioners and NHS England. I hope that the hon. Lady will be a little patient, because I am sure that the right decision will be made in due course.

There are three key areas in which the Government have taken forward the recommendations of the Francis inquiry: encouraging a culture of transparency and openness in the health care system; empowering front-line staff and encouraging good leadership in the NHS; and putting the patient at the heart of everything that the NHS does. As we have discussed, the patient was not at the heart of everything that was done at Mid Staffordshire for a period. That is why we have to learn the lessons and ensure, as best we can, that that cannot happen again.

On transparency and openness, it is important to highlight how we have already delivered on the recommendations of Robert Francis’s report. The CQC has appointed three chief inspectors for hospitals, social care and general practice who will ensure not only that the organisation is complying with the law, but that the culture of the organisation promotes the benefits of openness and transparency. Importantly, we now have clinically led inspections for the first time, which means that people who really understand what good care looks like will be in charge of the inspection process. That clinical leadership in the inspection process and at the heart of what the CQC does has to be of benefit to patients, and the Government are proud that we have delivered that.

We have also introduced a new statutory duty of candour on providers, which will come into force this year. It will ensure that patients are given the truth when things go wrong and that honesty and transparency are the norm in every organisation.