Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Andrew Stephenson

Thursday 30th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

9. What steps the Church of England is taking to help tackle extremism in the UK and overseas.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Tony Baldry)]

The Church of England is taking a significant role in tackling extremism by supporting the work of the Government and by working through its own networks of local communities and the wider international Anglican communion.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

I fully agree with my hon. Friend. This is a terrible, grim and desperate case. I fear that it is a stain on the reputation of Pakistan that this young woman should have been in prison for such a long time.

Far too often around the world, cases of apostasy and the way in which blasphemy laws are used in some cases, as in Pakistan, are a complete offence against the principles of the United Nations charter on freedom of religion. We all need to take every opportunity to express to the Pakistani high commissioner in London and the Government of Pakistan how desperate and sad the world is to see that Pakistan has not managed to resolve that case more swiftly.

[Andrew Stephenson]

One of the biggest concerns of the Christian Churches in Pendle at the moment is the persecution of Christian communities by ISIS. Has the Church of England made any assessment of the threat of ISIS to religious minorities in the region?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

Only the other day, the Archbishop of Canterbury commented that Christianity is at risk of being completely eliminated from the whole of the Levant. I know that he is in discussions with faith leaders from across the middle east to see how we can work together to try to ensure that some religious tolerance returns as swiftly as possible.

The situation is desperate: the world appears to be going backwards, away from the high principles of the United Nations charter of 1945 and towards a situation in which intolerance, rather than tolerance, is increasingly becoming the norm.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Andrew Stephenson

Thursday 12th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

7. What representations the Church of England has made on Meriam Ibrahim.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Tony Baldry)]

The Archbishop of Canterbury and the Church of England wholeheartedly supported the call from the Christian Muslim Forum for the death sentence against Meriam Ibrahim to be dropped. The Church of England will continue to support the Archbishop of Sudan on this issue.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

My hon. Friend is right, and his constituents demonstrate that this concern is shared throughout the country. I hope that other communities and individuals who feel similarly will also write to the Sudanese embassy and that parliamentary colleagues will support early-day motion 71, tabled in my name, which has support from Members in all parts of the House.

[Andrew Stephenson]

A number of Pendle residents have contacted me to express their concern about this case and what it means for the Christian community in Sudan. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the issue is that the alleged crime of apostasy is in direct conflict with fundamental human rights, as set out in the UN universal declaration of human rights?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, and that point was reinforced yesterday by the Prime Minister. Article 18 of the UN universal declaration of human rights seeks to enshrine freedom of religion and the freedom to change one’s religion, whereas the alleged offence of apostasy makes it a hanging offence to change one’s religion. They are clearly incompatible. In international law, fundamental universal UN human rights must prevail.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Andrew Stephenson

Thursday 9th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

4. What steps the Church of England has taken in Lancashire to support the homeless and people in poverty over the Christmas period.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Tony Baldry)]

A lot happened in the diocese of Blackburn over the Christmas period. In my hon. Friend’s constituency, the Colne and Villages parish held a Christmas café, and many parishioners also worked with local businesses and schools to support food banks. I am told that one local business in Pendle donated more than 60 hampers of food, toys and clothes, which were then distributed by the local ecumenical Church network.

[Andrew Stephenson]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. I have in the past mentioned the work of St Philip’s church in Nelson and its food bank. Does he agree that although food banks are particularly important over the Christmas period, they do not tackle the root causes of food poverty? Will he say more about the Church Commissioners’ work to rebalance the Church’s activities towards addressing the underlying problems and finding long-term solutions to food poverty?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

The Church urban fund would acknowledge that food banks do not tackle the causes of food poverty. We need to know more about why people use food banks, which is why the Church urban fund is undertaking detailed research on this matter. The report was published in September.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Andrew Stephenson

Thursday 21st November 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Tony Baldry)]

Yesterday, the General Synod voted by 378 votes to eight, with 25 abstentions, to approve a new package of proposals that will enable women to become bishops in the Church of England.

[Andrew Stephenson]

This is obviously very welcome news. Can my hon. Friend give us an idea of the likely time scale for the introduction of the change?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

My hon. Friend is right; this is very welcome news. As a result of the vote yesterday, I am confident that this House will have an opportunity to pass the necessary legislation in the lifetime of this Parliament.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Andrew Stephenson

Thursday 10th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Mr Kevan Jones—not here.

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

8. What steps the Church Commissioners are taking to publicise the introduction of the Scrap Metal Dealers Act on 1 October 2013; and what steps churches are taking to protect themselves from lead theft.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

The Church of England has been working closely with its insurer, Ecclesiastical, to promote the “Hands off our church roofs” campaign, and the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 2013, which came into force on 1 October, is extremely welcome. Overall, we hope that we can promote the various deterrence methods available to protect church roofs and metal artefacts from theft.

[Andrew Stephenson]

Will my hon. Friend confirm that since it was made clear that that legislation would be introduced there has been a significant reduction in the incidence of metal theft? Although vigilance is still needed, does not the passing of the Act mean that we are no longer fighting a losing battle?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

The whole House will be really pleased about the introduction of the Act, because although we still have some way to go, the reduction in the incidence of metal theft has been substantial. Although churches of course still need to use CCTV, SmartWater and so forth, the fact that scrap metal can no longer be traded for cash—people can no longer rip lead from roofs and sell it the next morning for cash to a local dealer; it is now a cashless business—is clearly already having a considerable impact on ensuring that our heritage does not continue to be ripped off.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Andrew Stephenson

Thursday 4th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sir Tony Baldry]

The hon. Lady makes an important point. Perhaps she would like to talk to me about it in greater detail afterwards. If this is an issue that needs to be resolved, it will have to be resolved in the other place, where the Bill currently lies.

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

3. What the policy of the Church Commissioners is on finding alternative uses for churches which are closed.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

Under the Mission and Pastoral Measure 2011, the Church Commissioners are responsible for settling the future of closed church buildings. For most, we are able to secure suitable alternative uses in partnership with a local diocese, but I should stress that the Church of England is not in the business of closing churches unless absolutely necessary.

[Andrew Stephenson]

Although I hope that churches will always remain principally used for worship, it was great to visit the grassroots family centre at St Philip’s church in Nelson recently and see the job club IT courses and other programmes now being run from the building by the Blackburn diocese. That stands in stark contrast to St Mary’s in the same town, for which the Church Commissioners have not had responsibility for over 20 years and which has remained boarded up since it was deconsecrated back in 1987. Does my hon. Friend agree that the St Philip’s family centre is a great example of an alternative use for a church building?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

What has happened at St Philip’s in Nelson is outstanding. I pay tribute to all who have made it happen. St Philip’s now homes a Sure Start project, a drug rehabilitation project and an Early Break project. I hope that churches and church buildings can always be at the centre of the community for wider community use.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Andrew Stephenson

Thursday 16th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Tony Baldry)]

Church bells are an important part of our national character and heritage, and the Church of England has some limited grant aid available for work to bells and bell frames that are of historic interest. This is distributed by the Church Buildings Council, which also provides advice to help churches approach other funders, including the Heritage Lottery Fund.

[Andrew Stephenson]

In April I joined the Colne ringers for a practice night in the bell tower of St Bartholomew’s church in Colne. The main reason for my visit was to help publicise the ringers’ work and encourage other people to join to help ring the church’s eight bells. However, while I was there it was clear that the installation is showing signs of its age, with much of it dating back to the early 1800s. The ringers hope they can refurbish the bells for their 200th birthday in 2014. Is there any help that the Church Commissioners can provide?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

In addition to the possible grant aid for the bells at St Bartholomew’s church in Colne from the Church Buildings Council and the Heritage Lottery Fund, which I have already mentioned, bell frames are eligible for support under the listed places of worship grant scheme to reclaim the cost of VAT on them. Useful advice and assistance are also available from county and diocesan ringing associations.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Andrew Stephenson

Thursday 24th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Tony Baldry)]

The Church of England welcomed the recent judgments from the European Court of Human Rights. The victory of Ms Eweida is a straightforward victory for common sense. In a free country, the wearing of symbols of one’s religious faith should be entirely uncontroversial. I do not believe that Christians, just because they are Christians, should have any greater rights than anyone else in the community, but certainly Christians, because they are Christians, should not have fewer rights.

[Andrew Stephenson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. Although Nadia Eweida won her case against British Airways, which I wholeheartedly welcome, a nurse lost her case regarding the wearing of a cross at work, something she had done for 30 years. The Right Reverend the Bishop of Exeter has described the laws as balanced against the rights of conscience and faith. Does my hon. Friend agree with those of us who believe that we still need to do more to protect religious freedoms and tolerance in the British workplace?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

Personally, I think the ECHR got the balance on religious symbols about right. While fully upholding the right of Christians and others to wear discreet religious symbols at work, this, like many other rights, cannot be an absolute. In the case of Ms Chaplin, we fully accept that the need for hospitals to preserve the highest standards of hygiene, and safety has to come first.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Andrew Stephenson

Thursday 1st March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Tony Baldry]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise this issue. Cathedrals have not been immune from thefts within and without and only recently a silver cross was stolen from the Lady chapel in Manchester cathedral. Each time this happens, it puts up the costs of insurance in all cathedrals, including the much-loved Truro cathedral in my hon. Friend’s constituency. That is why we have to bear down on metal theft.

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

3. What steps the Church Commissioners are taking to promote bell ringing.

[Tony Baldry]

A general fund provides grants to enable the repair and maintenance of historic bell towers. The Church of England is delighted that bell ringing in church buildings is taking centre stage this year during the diamond jubilee and Olympic celebrations.

[Andrew Stephenson]

Over the past few years, the bell ringers of the 12th century St Mary-le-Ghyll church in Barnoldswick have raised more than £60,000 to increase the number of bells at the church from three to six, a project that was completed and dedicated by the Bishop of Bradford in January 2010. They are now in the process of raising a further £17,000 to add a final two bells. Will my hon. Friend join me in congratulating them on their efforts?

[Tony Baldry]

That is a fantastic achievement by St Mary- le-Ghyll and I hope that all those six bells will ring out at 3 o’clock in the afternoon on 3 June, when churches throughout the country are being encouraged to ring out their bells to coincide with the river pageant on the River Thames. I am glad to report to the House that the lead barge—the herald barge—will contain a floating belfry, the first of its kind with a new ring of eight bells cast at the Whitechapel Bell Foundry. Each of the royal jubilee bells will have the royal arms cast on it and will be named after a senior member of the royal family. The bells will go down the Thames and ring a quarter peal on the river, with the church bells along the route providing a musical response. It is hoped that at 3 pm on 3 June bells throughout England will ring out to celebrate the Queen’s diamond jubilee.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Andrew Stephenson

Thursday 24th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Tony Baldry]

I would hope that in the run-up to 2014 to 2018, the centenary of the first world war, churches across the country will not only work on updating, conserving and repairing war memorials but give thought, as many communities are, to updating the records of those who lost their lives in the first and second world wars. The theft of inscriptions from war memorials is a detestable offence, and a further example of the need to tackle the theft of metals as urgently as possible.

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

6. What support the Church Commissioners are providing to Christians in Pakistan.

[Tony Baldry]

The Church of England is very aware of the issues facing the Christian community in Pakistan. Two dioceses in the Church of England have strong diocesan links in Pakistan, the diocese of Manchester with Lahore and the diocese of Wakefield with Faisalabad. Four members of the Manchester diocese are currently visiting Pakistan. The Archbishop of Canterbury’s Pakistan focus group was formed in 2006 to keep him informed of issues of significance in relation to Pakistan, to assist him in representing his views appropriately in Pakistan, England and elsewhere, and to maintain positive relations in support of the Church of Pakistan.

[Andrew Stephenson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that full answer. What initiatives have been taken to increase awareness among Pakistani-background Christians and Muslims in the UK of how they can support inter-faith religious harmony?

[Tony Baldry]

The Archbishop of Canterbury is very much concerned about the importance of good relations among Pakistani-background Christians and Muslims in this country. When Christian leaders from Pakistan visit the UK they are introduced to prominent Pakistani-background Muslims so that they are aware of the situation, and to encourage them to use their influence and contacts in Pakistan to support persecuted religious communities. The Church of England sent a delegation of both Christians and Muslims from the UK to Pakistan in 2009 on the invitation of the Government of Pakistan, to visit Christian and Muslim community leaders, Government Ministers and officials.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Andrew Stephenson

Tuesday 18th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

1. Whether the Church Commissioners have made an estimate of the number of redundant churches converted to other uses in the past five years.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Tony Baldry)]

In the last five years, there have been 117 schemes for dealing with churches that are no longer being used as regular places of worship, 93 of which have resulted in their being provided for alternative use.

[Andrew Stephenson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. St Mary’s church in Nelson is probably the largest church in my constituency, and it has a 170-feet high tower and spire. However, it was last used for worship in 1989, and it has remained boarded up and empty since its deconsecration. Although St Mary’s itself is now owned by a heritage trust, will my hon. Friend tell the House what the Church Commissioners are doing to ensure that redundant churches are put to good use?

[Tony Baldry]

Nelson St Mary was closed for worship in 1987. At that point, a decision would have been made whether to transfer it to the Churches Conservation Trust as a redundant church or to sell it. It was sold in 1989, and at that point the Church Commissioners’ responsibility for the building ceased.