Dementia

Debate between Tony Baldry and Alison Seabeck

Thursday 10th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

I am sure everyone who listened to the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) describing on the radio the terrible passing of her husband will have been moved, and all the accounts she has given this afternoon are certainly appalling and unacceptable.

I want to be concise, so I shall touch on only a few key points. My first point is on training for care assistants, a topic the right hon. Lady talked about. After I was first elected to this House some 30 years ago, several years passed before I first heard the word “Alzheimer’s”. At Christmas I would visit nursing homes in my constituency, and they were mostly full of spry widows in their 70s, but it is now impossible to get into a nursing home or residential care home in my constituency unless one is suffering from severe Alzheimer’s or dementia. As a consequence, many more people with mild dementia are now living at home in the community, being looked after by carers.

We must greatly expand the number of care assistants in three environments: first, in hospitals. If we are to have a graduate nursing profession, we also need to ensure that caring assistants see that they have a vocation— that they are part of a profession and they have a set of skills. We also need to ensure that there are sufficient well-trained and motivated care assistants in nursing homes and residential care homes. For a long time nursing homes would recruit staff from overseas, very often from India, the Philippines or eastern Europe. They would train them, and then in due course those people would go and work for the national health service. Because of various changes to migration policy, however, that is no longer possible. Thirdly, we have more people with dementia and mild dementia living at home, and they also need proper care and support from care workers.

I raised this issue with Ministers earlier in the year, and my hon. Friend the Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb) kindly gave me a comprehensive response:

“We are doing lots of work with the sector to grow the workforce. We are, for example, aiming to double the number of social care apprentices to 100,000 by 2017 and expanding the current care ambassador scheme to promote a positive image of the sector.”

I have to say that I do not get the feeling that there are currently 50,000 apprentices in the social care or care worker sector, and I do not get a sense of there being many social care apprentices in my patch. That may be because they are not promoted as such, and how does one recognise a social care apprentice or a qualified social care worker in a residential care home or hospital?

The Minister rightly says that the Government acknowledge the importance of training and qualifications in supporting workers in their roles and in improving the quality of care services, and the Government are spending £285 million each year on training and developing the care worker work force. This may just be my view, but, again, I do not get a sense of how that is being demonstrated in outputs. I say to the Minister that we need a clearer focus on the training and development of that work force. We have made nursing a graduate profession but we must also ensure that those who are not graduate nurses—care workers in our hospitals, in our nursing homes and in the community—have a similar sense of vocation and similar training and apprenticeships. They need to be recognised as qualified care workers, and we must continue to invest in that work force.

As the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley said, compassion is key to all of that. When my mother and her generation trained as nurses, they saw compassion as an essential part of their vocation; that was inherent in being a nurse.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

I wish to give a further anecdote. My mother trained as a nurse and she said to me that on the first day in her job she was taken by the matron to the bed and told, “This is your world. The patient, and nothing else, is what you are there to look after. I want to know exactly what is happening with each and every patient in your care.”

[Sir Tony Baldry]

That was absolutely the case. There are occasions when one is just going to be out of touch on this, but hospitals are changing. When I was young, my father was a consultant and he had three wards. He was responsible for them and each had a sister, who was identifiable and accountable, as were the staff nurses. Everyone was accountable and everyone knew what was happening. Hospitals are changing, and in some ways medical technology means that things move a lot faster: for example, hysterectomies can now be day cases. However, people are staying longer in other parts of hospitals. As my hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) said, a large number of people in hospital are also suffering from dementia, and hospitals, as well as treating the acute problems of such people, need to respond to that. They need to work out where those people go once they leave the hospital. Very often someone’s dementia is not spotted until they are in hospital.

MOD Logistics (Bicester)

Debate between Tony Baldry and Alison Seabeck

Wednesday 18th April 2012 Westminster Hall

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

The hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd), like me, is a lawyer, and his speech was long on assertion and short on evidence. Indeed, it seemed more appropriate for the inside back pages of Private Eye than as a sensible contribution to Hansard and parliamentary debate.

It might be convenient for the House to know that I have represented Bicester for nearly 30 years—some three decades. During that time, the logistics depot has gone through a number of names, so for convenience I shall refer to it as the Bicester depot.

The Bicester depot has working at and within it a number of trade unions: Unite—previously the Transport and General Workers Union—and the Public and Commercial Services Union, or PCS. Over the years, I have developed a practical working relationship with them, and I stress that because they are clearly not necessarily political friends of mine. The convenor of the Whitley council at Bicester and of the International Telecommunication Union, Les Sibley, has been my Labour opponent at the past three general elections, and the hon. Gentleman can rest assured that if either Unite or PCS thought that something untoward was happening at Bicester, they would be shouting it from the rooftops.

I wonder why an hon. Gentleman from a Welsh constituency is seeking to investigate, by assertion, what is happening in a military depot in Bicester. The hon. Gentleman did not answer when I asked him who the “we” was who had been advising him. The answer probably lies in the first lines of the Library briefing for the debate. The first newspaper article in the briefing, from the Oxford Mail, has the headline, “Bicester can be ‘heart of MOD’”, and continues:

“Bicester’s MP has called for the Ministry of Defence to consolidate its UK logistic operations in Bicester.”

I am pleased that the hon. Member for the Wrekin is here because I would not want to make these comments without him being present.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

It is Telford.

[Tony Baldry]

I apologise: the hon. Member for Telford (David Wright). At the moment, there are a number of logistic centres for the Ministry of Defence, including one at Donnington. It is no secret that the Ministry has for some time been considering whether Donnington, Ashchurch and other logistic bases should be consolidated, and it is no secret that my submission to Ministers has always been that if one is to consolidate defence logistics, the logical place—the only place—to do so is at Bicester. Bicester is in the heart of the country, near Brize Norton, which is now the major air gateway, and the M40. The east-west rail link is being developed, which will connect Southampton to Felixstowe. Given all that and the Bicester’s internal railway connections, it is the ideal location in which to consolidate defence logistics. That is not just my view; it is that of the trade unions at Bicester.

Richard Kelsall, who represents the PCS, says:

“Over many years and many in-depth studies it has been concluded that Bicester is the only site that can fulfil the MOD’s strategic aims; meeting its customers’ needs whilst safeguarding the Public purse.”

I hope that the Front-Bench spokesperson, the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck) will listen to this with care. Les Sibley who, as I said, has been the Labour parliamentary candidate for three successive general elections and is a former mayor of Bicester, a current district and town councillor and a former county councillor, says:

“The pivotal role that MOD Bicester has played throughout its long history in its provision and delivery of services to the Armed Fortes worldwide over many decades is well documented.

The MOD is a large organisation and by the very nature of its role, it is inevitable that sometimes mistakes happen because we are not infallible and as such we rectify any mistakes as quickly as is humanly possible.

We have built an enviable reputation of expertise over time, and this expertise is still readily available to the MOD for future Logistics and Distribution purposes. Therefore, the most logical way forward is that these attributes can be offered to the MoD by the loyal and long serving civil service workforce whenever called upon. By utilising these skills together with the centralised location of MOD Bicester offers a winning formula for future excellence of delivery to the Armed Forces when considering any future operational requirements.”

I fully recognise that Members of Parliament who represent Donnington, Ashchurch or other locations and depots will have different arguments. I accept that, but in the context of this debate my point is that the House can be assured that if the trade unions at Bicester felt that something was systemically wrong with how the depot was being run they would be making it clear, not just to me but to Labour Front-Bench colleagues—people such as the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey), who used to be assistant general secretary of the Transport and General Workers Union and visited Bicester regularly during that time. I am quite sure that if the trade unions felt that something was going systemically wrong at Bicester they would have made it clear to leading members of the Labour party and to the Labour Front-Bench team.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison Seabeck]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, which I will come back to later.

The Government must be concerned that other factors, such as the drop in land values, are not helping their decision making, and nor is the fact that parts of the Bicester site are contaminated. Such factors have contributed to the MOD’s apparently defensive mindset over the future of the site and the work that goes on there. However, there appears to be much more behind such concerns, as we have heard today.

As the hon. Member for Banbury made clear, we need evidence, so transparency is hugely important. We need transparency in the relationship between the civil service and Ministers. Obviously, there are constraints regarding commercially sensitive material, and there are wider security concerns. However, one or more whistleblowers have come forward, and the right hon. Gentleman has asked written questions.

[Tony Baldry]

The “whistleblowers” do not come from Bicester; indeed, they would not need to be whistleblowers. I can assure the hon. Lady that if those working at Bicester thought there was a concern, they would be on the telephone to her, as fellow members of the Labour party, explaining that something was wrong.

[Alison Seabeck]

The hon. Gentleman has a fair point: if such people were trade union members, they might well have come to members of the Labour party. However, I do not know who has spoken to the right hon. Gentleman, and I assume the hon. Gentleman does not know either. I am talking generally about people who feel they have seen something in their workplace that is inappropriate or that constitutes extreme waste. Clearly, the right hon. Gentleman, from his perspective, has not had adequate answers to the written questions he tabled. This process started more than a year ago, and these issues were highlighted a year ago, so why do some of these things appear to have been pushed under the carpet?