Oral Answers to Questions

Tony Baldry Excerpts

Monday 7th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Angela Smith is not here so I call Tony Baldry.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

25. What plans she has for the future of the student visa entry system.

[The Minister for Immigration (Damian Green)]

I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.

[Tony Baldry]

This morning, I met a young Chevening scholar from Iraq who is studying for an MSc in engineering and robotics at Sussex university. He is hoping to go back to his country to make a contribution when he has completed his degree course. Will my hon. Friend confirm that we want as many overseas students like that young man as possible to come to the UK, because they enrich our university life and take the skills and knowledge that they acquire back to their home countries when they complete their courses? Will he confirm that while seeking to achieve that, we also want to bear down on the abuses of sham institutions that have been set up to bring about immigration abuses?

[Mr Speaker]

I think the hon. Gentleman is gearing up for an Adjournment debate on this subject. I do not know why he gave such a full question, but it was very helpful and we are grateful to him.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tony Baldry Excerpts

Monday 24th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the purpose of the limit is to meet the need to control Britain’s immigration system in a way that enables businesses to bring in the skilled workers that they need. I remind him and employers in Scotland that the unemployment rate in Scotland is above the UK average, at 8.4% compared with 7.8% for the UK. We should have regard to the needs of Scottish workers when companies look to recruit.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

When one of my great-grandfathers left the Gordon Highlanders as a pipe major, he could not find work in Scotland. Like many Scots, he came south to England. If there are job vacancies in Scotland, should people not be thinking of moving the other way? Is it not a bit strange for the Opposition to be on the one hand bemoaning unemployment levels, and on the other hand campaigning for higher immigration levels?

[Damian Green]

My hon. Friend makes exactly the right point. It was the previous Prime Minister who made the unfortunate point about British jobs for British workers at a time when British workers were not taking the majority of the jobs available in this country. This Government are determined to balance the economy better in many ways, in particular by ensuring that as many of the available jobs as possible are available to workers in Britain and, indeed, Scotland.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tony Baldry Excerpts

Monday 6th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Nick Herbert]

The test of the effectiveness of a force is not the overall number of people who are working in it but what those officers are doing. We share the determination of the chief constable of Greater Manchester police to protect the front line and to ensure that officers remain on the streets and available when the public want them.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

Is not my right hon. Friend concerned that some 2,000 police officers—almost equivalent to a whole police force—are off on long-term sick and unable to work? In any other occupation, such employees would probably be retired as unavailable for work. I do not understand why those provisions do not apply, because otherwise we have a number of police officers on the books who simply are not able to work.

[Nick Herbert]

I share my hon. Friend’s concern. It is an issue and we have set up a review of police officer employment and conditions, headed by Tom Winsor, that will make its first report shortly.

Metal Theft

Tony Baldry Excerpts

Wednesday 1st December 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr Watson]

Whether it is copper from the side of a railway line, broadband cable, a drain gully or lead flashing from a school roof, not a day goes by when metal theft does not feature in the daily crime roster for police in the UK’s towns and cities. I seek to make the case to the Minister that metal theft is a national problem needing urgent attention. It is eroding our critical infrastructure and therefore the economic capacity of the nation. After outlining the issues, I will make the case for the need to collect more accurate data on metal theft incidents, for amending the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 1964 and for protecting uniformed British Transport police. I will also make the case for new regulations to deal with the rise of unscrupulous dealers in precious metals.

The Minister has gained a reputation for being hard-working and fair-minded. I hope to convince him to focus in the coming months on the increasing problem of metal theft. Many businesses and police officers to whom I have spoken are frustrated with the progress made in the past, including—dare I say?—under my own Government. Six months into the coalition Government, I hope that he has found his feet and will be able to move up a gear in that policy area.

The Home Office line appears to be that the police have the necessary tools and powers to tackle metal theft: I will make the case that they do not. The problem is great for two important reasons: soaring commodity prices and the ineffectiveness of the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 1964. In the past two years, for example, the price of refined copper has more than doubled on international markets. Part of the problem faced by the Minister is that his Department has found it difficult to understand the scale of the problem because it has not collected the appropriate data.

Using the Freedom of Information Act, I have undertaken a comprehensive assessment into the effects of metal theft in local authorities up and down the country in 2007, 2008 and 2009. It is not an exact picture, but it provides a more comprehensive view of the scale of misery caused by metal theft throughout the country. The results are shocking, but since a number of authorities have not responded to my FOI request, I fear that my newly compiled figures are just the tip of the iceberg.

We found 1,873 reported instances of schools being targeted by metal thieves, predominantly for the lead from their roofs. We know that 185 leisure centres and 156 community centres have been targeted, as have—shockingly—71 cemeteries and crematoriums. Thirty-three local authorities told me that metal theft has cost them more than £100,000 in insurance claims and repair costs. My borough of Sandwell has suffered the highest losses of any authority—more than £720,000. It is closely followed by Leicester, which lost £530,000, and Greenwich, which lost more than £470,000.

Last October alone, Sandwell council lost £20,000. Such thefts have cost Sandwell, and councils in Birmingham, Wolverhampton and Walsall, nearly £1.6 million over the past three years. The scale is huge and it is getting bigger. It is not taking place just in the country’s metal-bashing heartlands: the London boroughs of Greenwich, Sutton, Bexley, Bromley, Barking, Dagenham, Enfield, Havering and Redbridge estimate that between them, they have lost £1.9 million as a result of metal theft.

Anything can go. Three stainless steel slides were stolen from Birmingham, and the city also lost £30,000- worth of goal posts. Durham council raised 97 repair orders for its schools, and admitted that that may not even begin to dig into the problem. Sheffield lost a swimming pool roof that cost £200,000, and Thurrock council lost the eternal flame from the East Tilbury war memorial. The cost of replacement was so great that a fibreglass replica had to be made.

More worryingly, I have uncovered an increasing problem of thieves targeting our key infrastructure networks. The most recent police estimate of the cost of such thefts to communication, energy, transport and water industries is £770 million per annum. This year alone has seen more than 5,000 reported thefts from the railway, gas and electricity networks. Such thefts have resulted not only in the loss of services to vulnerable customers, but have included attacks on 999 services and communication services that are provided to the various police forces and military establishments.

In the past six months, BT has seen more than 900 attacks on its network, which has affected more than 100,000 customers. It has lost more than £5 million in the past year, and on current trends, it looks as if it will lose £6 million in the current financial year. In one attack in Scotland last week, 32 tonnes of copper cable were stolen in a single night. Energy company E.ON faces similar problems. Last year, substation theft cost the company £1.3 million, and by the end of May it had already seen 175 reported incidents. The figures speak for themselves. It is not just the monetary cost that is worrying, but the danger in which the thieves are putting both themselves and the engineers who work for companies such as BT and E.ON, through their illegal activities.

Today, Gwent police superintendent Harry Gamlin, head of the taskforce that deals with metal theft in Wales, said that the problem is now so bad that it threatens to “fracture social cohesion.” He added:

“There is a common perception of metal thieves being loveable rogues, old-man-Steptoe-type characters...People need to wake up to the fact that they are in fact highly organised and skilled gangs of criminals who more than likely have links to other forms of serious and organised crime.”

The taskforce in Wales is a welcome step, but tougher laws are needed.

It is not just the seasonal “wrong type of snow” and leaves on the track that are holding up our train network: commuters now have to contend with the regular misery of year-round signalling thefts. Network Rail tells me that commuters and operators have lost 19,417 hours in delays since 2006-07. Overall, it estimates that it has spent £35 million since then on metal theft-related crime. That includes £25 million of schedule 8 costs. That is £25 million that could have been spent on improving the railway network that has been diverted to essential maintenance because of metal theft alone.

I travel to Westminster from Sandwell and Dudley station every week. Between September 2009 and this October there have been five serious incidents of cable theft in the Tipton area alone and I have been late for meetings and nearly missed votes. These incidents in Tipton caused £485,000 worth of damage to the rail network causing hundreds of hours of delays for commuters. I find these figures staggering. Across the whole of the west midlands in the last 18 months there have been 52 cable thefts on the railway causing 1,500 trains to be cancelled. I am told by Network Rail that the route between London and Scotland up the east coast is by the far the worst affected, especially in Yorkshire and the north-east. That route has recorded days on which up to 40 thefts have taken place. Commuters and British business are the people who are really losing out as metal theft soars.

I have unearthed other examples that are shocking in their scale and audacity. There are the thieves who cut a heavy copper cable used to link an MRI scanner to the main electricity supply in Northamptonshire. Thieves stole cable twice in a week meaning 70 patients had to have their diagnostic appointments rearranged. Lives could have been lost. I have been told of the sick thieves who stole two brass plaques listing the names of the Blackley men who fell during the first world war in Manchester. The community had to unite to make sure that the 215 war heroes could be honoured on Remembrance Sunday.

Just as sickening was Linda Smith’s story. Linda contacted me to tell me about the theft of metal containers for holding flowers from graves from Abney park in Stoke Newington. The Minister may not be aware that the Ecclesiastical Insurance Group, the leading church insurers, report that they have received more than 7,000 claims for metal theft since the start of 2007 at an estimated total cost of £23 million.

Councillor David Sheard of Kirklees council has been in touch. He told me about the £18,000 worth of litter bins that had been stolen from the council in a single week. The case of Tom Berge who escaped a jail sentence for stealing lead worth £100,000 from some of the most historic properties in Sutton in Croydon has also been brought to my attention. He used Google Earth to identify listed buildings, churches and schools that he could target. In Sandwell, two people have already lost their lives trying to steal cabling from a disused factory after an explosion.

Five-year-old Keanu Jones of Dudley road in Tipton could so nearly have been the third life lost last week. He fell down an exposed drain when out with his mum. The cover had been stolen. It left him shaken and covered in bruises. Keanu’s case is important. It highlights the fact that thieves do not just target high-value, precious and commodity metals. The resale value of what can be stolen can often be minimal. To quote Tony Glover, spokesman of the Energy Networks Association:

“It is pathetic, quite frankly. As a crime it is sometimes as little as £5, £10 or £20… But its impact is enormous—it’s almost like an act of vandalism. Some of our equipment is oil-insulated and a £5 brass valve—that’s all they stole— resulted in 30,000 litres of oil coming out of some equipment.”

Just to illustrate the point, this week I was visited by my constituent Ravi Kumar who told me that thieves had stolen his old, rusty metal table from his front garden. Ravi had put the table out for collection by Sandwell council. Thieves looking to make a quick cash return made off with the table before the council van arrived. There is a black market price list for this stuff—£10 for Ravi’s table, £20 for a stolen manhole cover, £80 for a catalytic converter. These items are being stolen because they are easy prey to thieves to sell on to rogue scrap metal dealers.

More worryingly, West Midlands police and the Black Country chamber of commerce continue to alert me to the rise in the number of burglary dwelling offences across the country in which the offenders are stealing the victim’s gold or silver jewellery. There is currently no legislation covering the buying and selling of gold and silver by independent retailers, which are becoming increasingly common in most towns and cities. Despite some franchises still following good practice, in which no transaction can take place without a series of identity checks, some of the rogues are beginning to make an impact on communities.

I would like to see two minor changes to the law to tackle the problems that I have outlined. One change would deal with commodity metals such as copper, lead and brass, and the second change would deal with precious metals such as gold and silver. The Scrap Metal Dealers Act 1964 needs to be made fit for the modern age. It is outdated; it is not well understood, and, in its current form, it simply fails in its purpose.

Many hon. Members may not be aware of the legislation to which I refer. As it stands, the Act requires dealers to keep a simple book detailing all scrap metal received at the place of purchase. The book must also show that all scrap metal is either processed at or dispatched from that place. That is inadequate.

In the Sandwell area, and across the country, I repeatedly hear stories of some unscrupulous scrap metal dealers opening as early as 5 am. Cash in hand is given to the seller, and it is not unusual for them to turn up with a wheelie bin full of manhole covers. The unscrupulous scrap metal dealer, who does not check too closely where the metal has come from or who the seller is, then sells it on to legitimate dealers, who have no idea that they are buying stolen metal. In some cases, the metal is exported to the far east due to global demand. Some dealers will let sellers get away with giving their name as Joe Bloggs or Mr Smith. Scrap metal is big business, and the record keeping among rogue dealers can be very poor or even non-existent. One police force has told me that records kept by metal merchants do not always provide them with a good enough audit trail to track back such thieves, and I know police forces across the country feel the same.

Although I appreciate that recent dialogue between the British Metals Recycling Association and ACPO has resulted in the development of a code of practice, which includes measures that go beyond those prescribed by the 1964 Act—including requesting proof of identity, limits on cash payments and guidance on best practice for deploying CCTV—I have real doubts that those go far enough. Unscrupulous metal dealers have already made it clear that they are unwilling to abide by good practice, and a voluntary code is extremely unlikely to change the mindsets of those people in the industry. My preferred option would be to make scrap metal dealers operate under a cashless system. If thieves cannot make a quick profit, the incentive to steal in the first place would be dramatically reduced. I draw the Minister’s attention to the state of Oregon, which did that in 2009. All the signs from Oregon suggest that the beefed-up regulations have caused a drop in the number of people looking to sell stolen materials. Many police forces are also seeking powers to close down suspected rogue dealers on the spot, and they want metal users to consider embossing their metal to make it less attractive to steal. I hope that the Minister will seek ways to make that happen.

It strikes me that there is a need for precious metals, such as gold and silver, to be brought within the scope of the 1964 Act. We cannot allow the situation to continue in which there is no legislation covering the buying and selling of such metals. The Black Country chamber of commerce tells me that it would like precious metal dealers to register their business with the local authority every three years; it would like to see registered dealers required to keep a written record at each precious metal store of all items received, processed and dispatched from that store; and it would like deeper proof of identity from those who sell precious metals. I support the Black Country chamber of commerce in its call, and I hope that the Minister will take its suggestions seriously.

Based on new figures that I have made public today, I believe that the Government should arrange for data on metal theft to be better collected and to be presented in a clearer format. The failures of local authorities and police forces to accurately chronicle every incident make contributions to public policy and finding solutions on this subject more difficult for Ministers and stakeholders. It is time for the courts to get tough. The Home Office should ask the Ministry of Justice to issue specific guidance on metal theft to magistrates, as the Ministry of Justice did with home repossessions.

Analysts tell me that they expect a 62% rise in copper prices over the next few years. Coupled with the Government’s announced cuts to policing budgets and the fact that the future budget of the British Transport police is in doubt, that could see a further rise in metal thefts. If the UK adopted a cashless approach to scrap metal sales, I am certain that thieves would be deterred. There would simply be no quick cash incentive for them to steal commodity metals and there would be a proper audit trail. I hope that the Minister will look seriously at the proposals of the Black Country chamber of commerce on precious metals. Metal thieves erode UK resilience. They undermine communities and threaten businesses. They have to be stopped.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Tony Baldry)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Tony Baldry]

I sought the permission of everyone, Mr Leigh, including Mr Speaker. The hon. Member for West Bromwich East (Mr Watson) has done the House an enormous service and what he has had to say is truly shocking. I am grateful to him and to the Minister for allowing me to intervene briefly in this debate. I do so in my capacity as the Second Church Estates Commissioner.

Lead theft is one of the most serious threats at present to the Church of England’s 1,600 churches, many of them grade I listed buildings. Indeed, 45% of all grade I listed buildings are churches, and other faiths have similar concerns. Night after night, lead is being stolen from church roofs, and thieves now use Google Earth to identify targets, including church roofs.

Since 2007, the main insurer of ecclesiastical churches has received 8,000 claims for lead theft, at a cost of about £23 million. That represents only the insurance claims; the total cost, including damage to churches, is much greater. In many instances, churches that have replaced their roofs at considerable expense have been repeatedly targeted—14 times, in the case of one church. Of course, if they have had the lead stripped from their roofs, it is often difficult, if not impossible, to get re-insured. As hon. Members can imagine, the effect on the morale of parishioners and communities is devastating.

In spite of that, there have been very few prosecutions. Congregations feel that the police regard metal theft as a victimless crime and that they are reluctant to investigate or take action, even when there is an established pattern of theft taking place on consecutive nights. I understand that the Home Office does not even record the theft of lead as a separate offence. Although some of the thefts may be opportunistic, there is growing evidence that organised gangs are involved, and the graph of the incidence of theft mirrors, with remarkable consistency, the price of lead on the world metal markets. The higher the price of lead, the more churches are stripped of it.

A number of things need to be done. Scrap metal yards need to be more regularly spot-checked by local authorities and the police. Local authorities have a responsibility to inspect the registers of scrap metal yards. The hon. Gentleman’s suggestion of a cashless transaction is interesting, and I hope that the Minister will take it seriously. This is a crime that has to be taken seriously. I am sure that Home Office Ministers take it seriously and that they will ensure that it is consistently taken seriously by police forces and local authorities throughout the country.

The Church of England’s Church Buildings Council, chaired by Anne Sloman, has set up a working group to address the problem urgently. It is taking evidence from police, scrap metal merchants, the legal profession and other interested parties. When it reports early next year, I hope that the Government will consider its conclusions carefully and endorse what it has to say as a way forward.

Anti-Slavery Day

Tony Baldry Excerpts

Thursday 14th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Bone]

My hon. Friend puts the case perfectly and I entirely agree with him.

Returning to the point about making this country one into which traffickers do not want to come, traffickers are interested only in the money. We need to make it so difficult for them that they do not want to try to operate here. That is why the coalition Government’s new proposal for a border police provides an opportunity to put trafficking right at the heart of this new initiative. Trafficking must stop, but it will stop only with the help of everyone—here and across the nation. William Wilberforce did not pass the legislation to abolish the slave trade and to abolish slavery for political gain or to achieve votes; he realised there was a fundamental problem that needed to be addressed.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s comments. One difficulty dealing with trafficked women is that they often believe that they are here illegally. They do not go to the police because they are terrified that, if they do, terrible things will happen and the police will prosecute them. What does my hon. Friend think should be the immigration or legal status of people who find themselves trafficked here? Clearly, they are not asylum seekers in the accepted meaning of the term, so how do they fit into the immigration system?

[Mr Bone]

I am conscious of time and of the fact that many other Members want to contribute to the debate. I shall wind up shortly, but to answer my hon. Friend’s point, these people are victims and they should be looked after; there are organisations such as the POPPY project that do look after them. We have a strange system at the moment whereby an adult victim of human trafficking gets better treatment than a child. Unfortunately, I do not have time to go into this further, as I note that so many Members want to speak in the debate.

Finally, I am ashamed to stand here as a citizen of this great nation and admit that we have failed William Wilberforce. After 200 years, the slave trade is still very much alive. In 200 years’ time, I do not want another Member of this House to stand where I am today and admit that he is ashamed that they have failed in what we are trying to achieve today. The first anti-slavery day must mark the start of the decline of modern-day slavery in our country.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tom Brake]

That is a very pertinent and topical point, although it might be slightly beyond my pay grade to respond to it on behalf of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Perhaps the Minister may use his response as an opportunity to put across the Government’s perspective on that point.

Many forms of slavery are alive and well today, including bonded labour. People can enter bonded labour for something as simple as the cost of medicine for a sick child, and it then locks them into providing labour free or in exchange for food and shelter. That can be labour that they have to provide 365 days a year and it can be impossible for them to get out of that arrangement. As many hon. Members will know, Dalits fall into that category. Those are peoples in both India and other parts of the subcontinent who can end up in lifelong servitude, which often gets passed down through generations.

[Tony Baldry]

How does my hon. Friend suggest that we deal with that? Hundreds of thousands of people are involved in bonded labour in India, but India is a mature democracy, although one to which we still provide some development assistance. How and where does he suggest that we exert influence to help bring about the end of bonded labour in mature democracies such as India?

[Tom Brake]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. The only tool at our disposal is the one that we are using at this moment: raising the issue and using that as a gentle encouragement to the Indian Government, and other Governments in the subcontinent, to respond to these challenges.

The time available does not allow an in-depth discussion about trafficking, although we had a fairly full debate on it just a couple of days ago. Inevitably, and correctly, that debate touched on the EU directive, and I simply wish to restate what I said then. I welcome the fact that the Government are reviewing the directive, but I hope that if it is clear at the end of that review process that the directive pushes us significantly beyond where we are on tackling human trafficking, the Government will then opt in to the directive.

In order to allow others their opportunity to speak in the debate, I shall finish by discussing just one other important point—the legal framework to tackle slavery in the UK. It is only this year that we have legislated to deal with an offence of forced labour or domestic servitude. At least we now have clarity, because the legislation is in place. Is the Minister in a position to tell the House whether there have been any prosecutions or convictions under that legislation, which has recently come into force? People will want to express emotional views in this debate, so I wish to conclude simply by saying that it is regrettable that we are having to have an anti-slavery day debate, because slavery is alive and well in the world. I hope that in future years—perhaps a number of years from now—such a debate will not be necessary.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tony Baldry Excerpts

Monday 6th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

I am indeed aware of the problem to which my hon. Friend refers, a problem that has an immigration aspect and, obviously, an aspect for the Department of Health. Non-EU workers who work as agency workers would not normally qualify under tier 2 —the work-based route of the points-based system—as they would not be filling a substantive vacancy. Such workers may have arrived here by other routes, such as tier 1 of the points-based system, in which case their language skills would be checked, or as a spouse, in which case they would not. The problem illustrates why efforts to check the language skills of health professionals need to be focused on those who employ them, which is precisely what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health is doing.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

11. What progress has been made on her Department’s review of the operation of the Extradition Act 2003 and the US-UK extradition treaty.

[The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May)]

The coalition agreement committed the Government to reviewing the UK’s extradition arrangements worldwide, to ensure that they operate effectively and in the interests of justice. The review will examine both our extradition arrangements with the United States and our operation of the European arrest warrant. I will make an announcement to Parliament on the chairmanship and terms of reference of the review shortly.

[Tony Baldry]

My right hon. Friend will be aware that there is general concern that the provisions of the Extradition Act 2003 are lop-sided so far as they apply to the United States. Our relationship with the United States has always been based on mutual trust, and concerns about the workings of the Extradition Act are not helping to reinforce that mutual trust. Will my right hon. Friend give the House an assurance and an undertaking that once her review has been completed, if it demonstrates that the provisions and workings of the Extradition Act are lop-sided she will bring forward amending legislation to this House?

[Mrs May]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his observations. I reflect, as he does, on the importance of the relationship between the United Kingdom and the United States of America, but I am also aware, obviously, of comments that have been made outside the House and inside this Chamber about the extradition treaty between the UK and the USA. That is why I think it entirely right for the coalition Government to have agreed that we will not only review that treaty but address the issue more widely and review the operation of European arrest warrants, about which hon. Members—particularly my right hon. and hon. Friends—have also expressed some concerns in this Chamber. I do not wish to prejudge the outcome of the review, but, as I said, I will be making more details of the review available to the House shortly.

Phone Tapping

Tony Baldry Excerpts

Monday 6th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

As I indicated earlier, such operational matters about whether to investigate particular individuals are for the police. We should jealously guard the operational independence of the police. I say to the hon. Lady, and to any other right hon. or hon. Members on the Labour Benches who think that I as Home Secretary should take it upon myself to tell members of the police force who they should or should not investigate, that that is a very slippery slope down which neither I nor this Government intend to go.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the straightforward fact is that the Metropolitan police can investigate, the Crown Prosecution Service can advise that there should be a charge, and prosecuting counsel can draft an indictment only if there is supporting evidence? Does not this all turn on a simple point? If The New York Times or any individuals believe that they have new evidence, is it not simply a matter of their making that evidence available for the Metropolitan police to investigate and allowing the police to get on with their job?

[Mrs May]

A very valid point has been made. It has been made clear that if evidence comes forward, the Metropolitan police will look into it. I understand that on its website The New York Times is saying that it will not make new evidence available to the police.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tony Baldry Excerpts

Monday 28th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Nick Herbert]

Once again, we see absolutely no understanding from the Opposition about the fiscal position we have inherited from them. The fact is that their Government left us with an unspecified cut of £44 billion to find across Government Departments. They would not say where that money was to be found, so we have to make the savings. I believe that police forces can do it, and we are also determined to protect the front line.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

9. When her Department plans to undertake its review of the terms and conditions of police officer employment.

[The Minister for Police (Nick Herbert)]

The Government have announced a review of the remuneration and conditions of service of police officers and staff. We will provide information about the review, including timing, shortly.

[Tony Baldry]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. Although I welcome the Government’s decision to honour the third year of the police pay award, does my right hon. Friend agree that the time has now come to review police pay and conditions, and to ensure a more flexible work force who are not so dependent on extensive and expensive overtime?

[Nick Herbert]

My hon. Friend is right. The previous Government conceded that more than £70 million a year was being wasted on police overtime. We need to look at that and it is one of the things that the review will do. We have, however, stood by the third year of the police pay award, as my hon. Friend suggested, which indicates our good faith towards the process and the value we place on the police service.