Oral Answers to Questions

Tony Baldry Excerpts

Tuesday 1st March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Chris Williamson. He is not here.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

5. If he will place in the Library a copy of the speech he made to Politeia on 14 February 2011.

[The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)]

I did not make a formal speech during the Politeia event, so any comments I made were in response to points raised during a seminar. I therefore regret that I do not have any written record that can be placed in the Library.

[Tony Baldry]

The Attorney-General is reported as having said the following at the Politeia seminar:

“The court”—

the European Court of Human Rights—

“doesn’t have the last word. It only has the last word so far as parliament has decided that it should. We could, if we wanted to, undo that—I think we should always bear that in mind—and actually undo it without some of the consequences we have over the European Union.”

Did he say that? If so, what does it mean?

[The Attorney-General]

The question arose in the context of parliamentary sovereignty. What I said to the seminar was what I also said to this House on the previous Thursday, which was that the operation of the European convention on human rights and the jurisdiction of the Court are based on the UK having signed up to the convention in the late 1940s and having ratified it through Parliament, with Parliament thereby accepting the jurisdiction of the Court. It is legally open to Parliament to enact primary legislation or otherwise to withdraw from the convention if it wished to do so and if the Government wished that through Parliament. That was the point that I was making; I was simply trying to explain the legal framework under which parliamentary sovereignty works in this context. I would add that any withdrawal would not come without costs or consequences, and it is not Government policy to withdraw.

--- Later in debate ---

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

3. What procedure exists for resolving disputes between the Church Commissioners and third parties over the ownership of property.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Tony Baldry)]

There is no set procedure for resolving disputes of property ownership. Each dispute is treated individually, having regard for the particular circumstances of the case.

[Robert Halfon]

In one of the villages in my constituency, just outside Harlow, a community group is in dispute with the local parish church over the ownership of a hall and its land. Does my hon. Friend agree that an arbitration service would surely be preferable to a costly court case in such matters, as the community group concerned does not have the resources to fight a lengthy legal battle?

[Tony Baldry]

In such instances, I suggest that mediation is always preferable. I understand that the Archdeacon of Harlow offered to act as a mediator but was turned down. I am a qualified and trained mediator, so if I was acceptable to Roydon parochial church council and the Dobbs Weir residents association, I would be willing, pro bono, to act as mediator.

[Mr Speaker]

We are grateful to the hon. Gentleman, as obviously is the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

6. How many former Roman Catholic priests have sought ordination in the Church of England since 2005; and if he will make a statement.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Tony Baldry)]

Figures held by the Archbishops Council show that in the past five years 14 former Roman Catholic priests have sought to be received into ordained ministry within the Church of England. As there is also discretion at diocesan level for acceptance into the ministry, not all candidates are centrally recorded, so the national figure is likely to be higher.

[Bob Russell]

National newspapers suggest that there is a one-way road leading from Canterbury to Rome. I have no brief for the established Church—I come from good non-conformist stock—but does the hon. Gentleman agree that more should be done to make it clear to those Roman Catholic priests who are unhappy that there is a welcome for them in the Church of England?

[Tony Baldry]

I say to my hon. Friend that there is a welcome for everyone in the Church of England. He makes a good point; national newspapers give the impression that there is a one-way street for disaffected Church of England priests going to the Roman Catholic Church, but that is certainly not the case. There are very good ecumenical relations between the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church, as was demonstrated by Pope Benedict’s recent visit to the UK. There is certainly two-way traffic, and long may that continue.

The hon. Member for South West Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, was asked—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

8. What the policy of the Church of England is on the retention of freehold accommodation for clergy.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Tony Baldry)]

There is no single Church of England policy on the retention of freehold accommodation for clergy.

[Mr Chope]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that answer, but does he not think that there should be such a policy in the light of what is happening in Christchurch at the moment? The vicarage adjoining the priory lies empty, but the diocese pays more than £2,000 a month to rent alternative accommodation, several miles from the priory, for the new priest in charge, who is quite willing to occupy the priory should the diocese be willing to allow that to happen. Will my hon. Friend convene a meeting, using his powers of mediation, to try to drum some common sense and economic sense into the diocese on that issue?

[Tony Baldry]

The Christchurch parsonage is a very large building, being twice the recommended size, and it is very expensive for the diocese to maintain and for the occupier to run. The diocese is looking to replace it with a more suitable property, and the newly appointed priest in charge has therefore simply been housed temporarily in a rented property. In this instance, I do not need to act as a mediator, because there is a perfectly good remedy. If the parochial church council is unhappy with what the diocese is doing, it can make representations that the Church Commissioners will have to consider.

The hon. Member for South West Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, was asked—