Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Tommy Sheppard and Barry Gardiner

Monday 15th May 2023 General Committees

[Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP)]

The third party supports every opportunity that we can take to apply leverage to the Russian Government to cease and desist their illegal war and occupation in Ukraine, so we are relaxed about supporting the proposals in the statutory instrument, but I have three brief observations. First, like others I wonder why, given that the invasion happened on 24 February last year and the war has escalated to its present level, it has taken nearly 15 months for us to debate these measures. Secondly, with regard to iron and steel there will be a delay of another three and a half months before the measures come into effect; why is that?

Thirdly, throughout the section on revenue-generating goods, there is repeated reference to the fact that it is a defence against breaking the law if the respondent can demonstrate that they did not know that it was in operation. Normally, ignorance of the law is no defence against committing a crime, so I wonder why it has been felt necessary to state it not once but in every relevant regulation. If there is a reason for it, that is all well and good, but I am concerned that it could be used as a loophole. As the regulations are implemented, will the Department monitor the number of instances in which that defence is cited? If it is being used egregiously, we will need to take action to tighten it up.

[Barry Gardiner]

Does the hon. Gentleman, like me, want to push the question slightly further and ask the Minister whether any contracts were known to be in the pipeline that might have resulted in the legislation being delayed in the way that the hon. Gentleman just outlined, or indeed whether any contracts are now in the pipeline in relation to steel products that would make it convenient to have a delay in the legislation? Does he think that it would be sensible for the Minister to write to us to give reassurance on those points?

[Tommy Sheppard]

I concur with those observations and ask the Minister to respond. I can give a personal example: I am currently very much engaged in supporting the refurbishment of the King’s Theatre in Edinburgh, which is a very big project. The price has escalated for a number of reasons, one of which is that the contractors are no longer using Russian steel, which was in the original proposals. That has led to a price increase. Given that that is happening in the real world, there must presumably be other contractors engaged who are not so concerned to demonstrate their action against Russian suppliers and the Russian Government. That is presumably why the regulations are necessary, but my point stands about the need to evaluate and monitor the number of times when ignorance is cited as a defence.