Agricultural Wages Board

Tom Greatrex Excerpts

Tuesday 16th October 2012 Westminster Hall

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I was not intending to speak in the debate until I noticed today’s statement on the Order Paper, but now I want to make a couple of quick points.

I often agree with the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), so I will reciprocate by disagreeing with him in this debate. In Scotland, this area is devolved and a few years ago the Scottish National party—I am not surprised that no one from the SNP is present—sought to abolish the Agricultural Wages Board in Scotland. John Swinney, the Finance Minister, was pushing that. When the Scottish Government looked at the evidence and were responding to the issues, however, they realised that it was not the sensible thing to do. Given that, I now have a sense of déjà vu, as I do from one of my previous lives: 14 years ago I was an adviser in what was then the Ministry of Agriculture, just after the minimum wage was introduced, and there was an internal debate about whether the AWB should therefore continue. Again, after going through the evidence and looking at all the issues, it was concluded that it should.

The written ministerial statement talks about something being outdated, but what is outdated is the continual campaign to undermine the terms and conditions of people working in the agricultural sector. We are coming back to that. Unless spectacular new evidence is available, the case for the AWB in England is as strong as the case was for the AWB in Scotland a few years ago or throughout Britain pre-devolution, back in the 1980s and before.

I should have declared an interest in the sense that my father started his working life as a farm labourer in a part of Kent and he benefited from the AWB. It has a big impact on huge numbers of people throughout the UK—in this context, throughout England, in all regions.

I cannot see any new evidence that will change the position established each time that the AWB has come up for review. I understand that some people in Whitehall every now and again push the case for abolition—it has happened a number of times—but the arguments that my hon. Friend the Member for Copeland (Mr Reed) and others have made this morning are absolutely right.

It is a shame that the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) is no longer present. For the most recent reshuffle, part of the discussion among the Liberal Democrats was about recalibrating where they had Ministers in the coalition. They quite rightly saw that rural and environmental issues were important, so it is good that the Minister is in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, even if that means that the Liberal Democrats do not have Ministers in other Departments. Before there was a Liberal Democrat Minister, however, the hon. Member for St Ives spoke for his party on DEFRA issues, and less than a year ago he was arguing in correspondence—presumably to one of his constituents—against the idea that the national minimum wage is sufficient protection for people working in the rural economy:

“It would therefore be wrong in my view to conclude that National Minimum Wage legislation is sufficient to maintain these protections for agricultural workers. As already noted, a minority of agricultural workers are on grade 1 pay; the vast majority are on grade 2 and above, and as such on wages higher than the National Minimum Wage.”

A little more than a year ago, the hon. Gentleman made another point which he repeated in an intervention earlier in today’s debate:

“Rural workers are exceptionally isolated and in an exceptional position that I think justifies exceptional protections.”—[Official Report, 12 July 2011; Vol. 531, c. 270.]

That is absolutely correct.

Unless great new evidence suggests that such protections can be maintained through some body other than the AWB, the desire to abolish it—as originally legislated, with a whole load of other bodies—for the sake of what will probably work out at some £250,000 or just over will end up as a false economy, particularly for the many people who work in farms throughout Britain and especially, in this context, in England. My hon. Friend the Member for Copeland made it clear that the AWB is relied on by labourers for their wages; however, because of the often difficult nature of agriculture and farming, farmers, too, effectively contract out their services to others. Those are vital points. Any examination of the evidence suggests that pushing again for the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board is more outdated than the idea that it is an outdated institution.

Common Fisheries Policy

Tom Greatrex Excerpts

Thursday 14th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and I recognise his experience and the cynicism born out of his many years on the other side of the channel. I assure him that I will do all that. I want to ensure that Britain continues to be at the forefront of calling for radical reform and I am concerned with outcomes, not warm words. I am sure there will be plenty of warm words, but the proof will be found in what my fellow Ministers do. Co-decision among his erstwhile colleagues in the European Parliament is now really important.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I agree with the Minister that one of the more welcome aspects of what the Commission has said is the move towards longer-term arrangements. Does he share my concern that without a parallel move to local management such arrangements will not solve the problems inherent in the CFP?

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right and that is one of the problems with the cod recovery plan. We want to see a much more localised management of the long-term management plans. I like long-term management plans because to an extent, although not totally, they take power away from politicians. The frankly ridiculous process we go through every December will become less of a horse-trading event if plans are written into a solid long-term process. That is why I am pleased to see this development in the document and that the Government’s firm views on this matter have been listened to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tom Greatrex Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Spelman]

That is a gross distortion of our waste review. The hon. Gentleman should not rely on newspapers to give him a guide to what is in it; he should take the trouble to read the real thing. Have I not just said that we expect the waste industry to grow by 4% per annum? We have not scrapped recycling targets; we are committed to EU targets for recycling. In addition, we have more ambition with regard to landfill, which exceeds the ambition of the previous Government and involves proposals not to bury metal and wood in landfill.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

11. What recent discussions she has had with her EU counterparts on reform of the common fisheries policy.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

As UK Fisheries Minister, I have had discussions with a range of people about common fisheries policy reform. These include the EU Commission, Members of the European Parliament and other member states. I continue to encourage fellow Ministers to support radical reform, most recently during this week’s Fisheries Council. I will continue to press our case for reform as negotiations develop over the next year.

[Tom Greatrex]

I am grateful for the Minister’s response. I am aware that the mackerel quota was discussed at the meeting earlier this week. Is the Minister aware of the widespread exasperation at the fact that in her comments afterwards, the Commissioner confirmed that no action would even begin to be taken until at least October—a full 18 months after the arbitrary action that caused the problem in the first place? There is now very real concern that this will have an impact not just on the sustainability of stocks but on the livelihood of fishing fleets. Will the hon. Gentleman urge his European partners to take action more quickly?

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise this matter; it is our most pressing problem, and our most valuable stock is at risk of crashing—probably within 18 months to two years—if the gross overfishing announced by the Faroes and Iceland goes ahead. I moved the issue forward at this week’s meeting by seeking to raise it to a political level. It has been dealt with by the Commission and by officials, but I believe it will take Ministers from the countries concerned to look each other in the eye and sit round a table, perhaps with an independent chairman, to negotiate. I do not care where we meet, but we have got to move this forward quickly. That is the proposal I made at the meeting, and I have followed it up with a letter. We made a number of other suggestions that highlight the urgency of this problem.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tom Greatrex Excerpts

Thursday 12th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Richard Benyon]

I think the law of unintended consequences is more prevalent in fisheries management than in anything else I have encountered. I want to make sure that our reforms for the under-10 metre sector work. That is why we developed a consultation, building on the sustainable access to inshore fisheries that was started by the last Government. I hope that we can put inshore fisheries on a sustainable footing. I will look at anything that stands in its way, so I will consult officials on what my hon. Friend has said and get back to her.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am sure that the Minister will know of reports this morning about of the Commission’s proposals which are to be issued in July, referring to longer quota periods. I hope that he will use his good offices in the negotiations to ensure that no EU-wide conditions are applied that do not take account of local conditions and practices. It is important for the sustainability of fisheries throughout UK waters for local practices not to be disregarded.

Fisheries

Tom Greatrex Excerpts

Thursday 12th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray), who brings a great deal of expertise and experience to this and other fisheries debates as well as to DEFRA parliamentary questions dealing with fisheries issues. I do not have the same amount of personal experience. Indeed, I believe that I was one of the only three Members who spoke during a fisheries debate in Westminster Hall in December whose constituencies did not contain fishing fleets; the others were the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) and my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain).

I note that many more such Members are present today. That may demonstrate the power of television in focusing attention on the issue of discards, which those who are involved in fisheries issues have been discussing for many years. My hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell) mentioned the action that has been taken by fishing fleets around the United Kingdom. That too has been happening for many years, although it is in danger of being overlooked in the debate. It is assumed that the issue has only just come to public attention and that people are now suddenly caring about it, but that is far from being the case.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Richmond Park on tabling the motion and initiating the debate. He has hit on an issue that many of our constituents have raised. However, we should not see dealing with discards as a panacea for all the problems connected with fisheries, especially as we head towards the period from July onwards when the Minister will be discussing reform of the common fisheries policy.

In the fisheries debate in December, I said that about 10 years had passed since I worked at the former Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, and the same arguments are being made now as were made then about the pressing need for reform of the common fisheries policy.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend says that there were calls for reform many years ago, but nothing has substantively changed. I think we should abolish the CFP and return to having national fisheries, but in any case is it not time that we got rid of the word “reform”? It is used by Front-Bench spokesperson after Front-Bench spokesperson as a get-out for doing nothing in reality.

[Tom Greatrex]

I share some of my hon. Friend’s frustrations about the lack of progress over many years. Often in European discussions, issues get traded off against each other; certain issues that should have been dealt with are not addressed, as other issues are seen as more pressing concerns. Fisheries have suffered as a result. Perhaps because I am slightly younger than my hon. Friend, or perhaps because I am a little naive in this respect, I am more hopeful than he is that the documentation from the Commission and some of the comments from the commissioner may give us cause to think that we have a serious chance of getting decent reform of the CFP on this occasion.

We will certainly have further discussions on this topic, but it is right to offer the Minister who will handle it in Europe our encouragement. We all understand that the negotiations will be very complex, as they will involve various different states and lots of different interests. One of the consequences of the increased interest in discards and other issues is that that has provoked the commissioner into saying some interesting things recently. While just saying things is not necessarily an indication of future action, there is now an opportunity, and we would be foolish not to try to take it.

[Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab)]

Is it not noteworthy that the commissioner has referred to the sheer scale of the public outcry and demand for action in the United Kingdom, and does that not point to the need for us to sustain this admirable campaign—I congratulate all those who have been leading it—and to broaden it to other European countries?

[Tom Greatrex]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point, which I alluded to when talking about the power of the television documentary and the campaign.

I want to address the wider issue of CFP reform, as well as discards. The hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) must know a lot about the discards issue, as some of the fleets in her constituency have tackled it in innovative ways, such as through employing different nets. As that shows, fishing fleets have taken action, but we must address discards within the context of the CFP as a whole, and there are other important issues that will also need to be taken seriously in the negotiations.

The hon. Member for South East Cornwall and my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby talked about sustainability. That is not solely the preserve of scientists and conservationists; sustainability is also inherently in the interests of the fishing communities, but for far too long they have, effectively, been given perverse incentives not to act in a sustainable way. That is the fault not of the fishing fleets or the communities whose livelihoods depend on fishing, but of the regime. It therefore needs to form part of the changes to that regime.

A move towards multi-year quotas, which the report of the draft I read this morning seemed to suggest the Commission was proposing, is an important part of the changes needed, so I encourage the Minister to keep it on his agenda for the negotiations. It is frustrating that once a year in December people have to sit through the night to set the agenda for the next year, while industries and people—sometimes working in remote parts of the country—whose livelihoods depend on the industry are left not knowing what the position will be a few months hence. That does not help them to make long-term decisions about investment in their vessels or about how to pursue their economic interests. We hope that the July discussions will provide an opportunity to address this situation, because it is not healthy, sensible or sustainable.

Will the Minister bear it in mind that, as I said in Environment, Food and Rural Affairs questions earlier, we cannot have imposed on everybody an inflexible regime that is unable to adapt to local circumstances? There are a number of fisheries around the UK coast in which fleets fish for mixed catches, and a strict regime on them could have unintended adverse consequences. We have to ensure therefore that there is the appropriate flexibility for local management within whatever improvements are made to the CFP. I share others’ frustrations with the CFP over recent years. Reform remains necessary, and discards are part of the problem. It is heartening that this issue is getting much more attention than even a few months ago, but it is not the only issue. CFP reform and moving to multi-year quotas and greater sustainability will be in the interests of everybody involved in the industry. They are also in the interests of a number of my constituents who have recently discovered a shared interest in this issue because of the discards campaign. We need to ensure that this is at the forefront of the agenda in the negotiations that the Minister will take part in over the next few months. I sincerely wish him all the best in that, and I hope that many Members will support him in taking this agenda forward.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tom Greatrex Excerpts

Thursday 3rd February 2011 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

1. What recent discussions she has had with her EU counterparts on mackerel quota.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I have had various discussions about north Atlantic mackerel, including discussions with Maria Damanaki, the EU Fisheries Commissioner, and discussions at Council of Ministers meetings in Brussels in December. Our discussions centred on hugely increased catches by Iceland and the Faroe Islands, and their failure to agree on stock management measures. In the light of that, the EU Commission agreed to table proposals for sanctions against both Iceland and the Faroe Islands if no agreement was possible in the near future.

[Tom Greatrex]

The Minister will be aware of the Icelandic Government’s comment that the proposal to block Icelandic vessels from landing mackerel in European Union ports is neither surprising nor effective, given that most of their catches are landed at Icelandic ports. Is it not time that the matter was dealt with seriously, and should not Iceland’s accession to the EU be put on hold until the dispute is resolved? It is having a hugely disruptive influence on a core economic interest in Scotland.

[Richard Benyon]

I entirely agree. My consultations with Maria Damanaki and others across the Government have centred on the proposition that when a country is seeking to join a club, tearing up the rule book before it even enters is strange behaviour. We aim to ensure that Iceland’s accession is seen in the light of its actions in relation to the fish stock.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tom Greatrex Excerpts

Thursday 9th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Richard Benyon]

Anaerobic digestion offers not just great potential for our society, which is concerned about diverting food waste up the waste hierarchy and away from landfill, but opportunities for communities, farmers and farming businesses to develop schemes that can deal with waste and feed into our energy system. So we are certainly considering that as part of the waste review, which will be announced in early spring. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will take close notice of it.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I implore the Minister, when he attends next week’s fisheries discussions in Brussels, to raise with his French and Italian counterparts the issue of the continued fishing of bluefin tuna? What can he do to ensure that we protect that very endangered species?

[Richard Benyon]

I hope the hon. Gentleman will be pleased to hear that we have continued the very strong line that his party, when it was in government, took on bluefin tuna. I am very keen to work with him, because he has great expertise in that field, and I can assure him that we raise the issue frequently at every level to ensure that we continue to push towards the protection of that iconic species.

Fisheries

Tom Greatrex Excerpts

Thursday 2nd December 2010 Westminster Hall

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I am conscious that there are a number of other Members who wish to contribute and that we need to give the Minister an opportunity to respond to the points that have been made, so I will try to be as brief as possible.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) on securing the debate, and I associate myself very much with her comments about the Fishermen’s Mission and the Royal National Lifeboat Institution, which does a superb job protecting people around our coastline. I am almost unique in this Chamber today in that, as far as I am aware, there is no fishing fleet in Rutherglen and Hamilton West; indeed I would be surprised to find that there was. Perhaps it is the same in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain), who is on the Front Bench.

I was keen to contribute to the debate as someone who, 10 years ago, worked in the former Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. Having attended a number of Fisheries Councils in that capacity, I genuinely wish the Minister well for the negotiations later this month.

As many hon. Members have said, the need for reform of the CFP is a long-standing issue, and one that has been raised by hon. Members on both sides of the House for a number of years. In some ways it is disappointing that, almost 10 years since I last had some degree of familiarity with fishing issues, so many of them have not changed much. That speaks to the compromise that sometimes seems to happen in European negotiations, particularly when fisheries issues and other issues are played off against each other. It is one of the less attractive features of how European issues are sometimes discussed and negotiated.

I am sure that the Minister will do all that he can to stand up for the fishing industry and to look at CFP reform as the opportunity presents itself next year or in following years. I am sure that he will make the case to colleagues in other Departments that fisheries should not be considered to be at the margins of European discussions, because they are vital to a range of communities that are well represented today and to the sustainability of both stocks and an industry that is a key economic contributor in several places. The Fisheries Council meeting in December is also important because it will come ahead of those negotiations on the CFP and therefore is a crucial opportunity to set the standard. I think that it will be used more widely as a barometer for where the debate on the fishing industry is going.

There is an important balance to be struck between the sustainability of stocks and the sustainability of communities and industries. I am sometimes depressed by the way the debate is characterised. Other Members have suggested that there can be almost a caricature of scientists against fishermen, but I know from my discussions with representatives of the fishing industry that that is by no means a fair reflection of where the industry is. There are other measures that the Government should look at when trying to marry those two objectives, because the overall policy goal, by and large, is shared.

Looking further at how we move from the sometimes cumbersome system of total allowable catches to catch quotas and the consequent reduction in discards is an important part of that. Early trials of on-board monitoring for fisheries in England and other areas have produced positive results, but that needs to go alongside rule changes as well, because one without the other will not allow that system to work properly if it is adopted. I hope that the Minister will take that stance in his discussions and meetings later this month and in the next few months.

I have had the opportunity at the last two DEFRA Question Times to raise with the Minister the mackerel quota dispute with Iceland and the Faroes, which other Members have mentioned. I appreciate that he made it clear on both occasions that the unilateral approach was unacceptable and that he shares the views of many who have expressed concern about how that situation has arisen and the fact that it is not resolved. I take this opportunity to implore him again to do everything he can to try to resolve that issue. As the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan made clear in her contribution—she obviously has a strong constituency interest—there needs to be a negotiated settlement, but one that is acceptable to the people whose livelihoods depend on that fishing.

The need for reform of the CFP is widely accepted, but it is difficult to achieve. I appreciate that the job that the Minister will have to do over the next few months is difficult, and I am sure that he will have picked up from the debate that there is a great deal of support for him and a recognition of the difficult nature of that job. I hope that those discussions on CFP reform will look at regional fisheries management. I know that there are issues about the extent to which such management is a regional matter and that the Scottish Government have expressed the view that it should be done at a Scottish level and not below. There needs to be appropriate flexibility in moving to regional fisheries management. However, the credibility that will come from that will help the Minister in the task that he faces. It will also help to move to longer-term management plans, which I think have a key part to play. Every year, just before Christmas, there is an opportunity for the wider media finally to pay a bit of attention to the fisheries industry, but they do so in a way that is caricatured almost as a “stay up all night, and who yawns first loses out” approach, which is not helpful. We should move to a much more sustainable position.

I would also like the Minister to respond, if he can in the time that he has, to three further points relating to fisheries that are of concern to people to whom I have spoken in recent months. First, regarding the future of the under-10-metre fleet, I know that work was being undertaken by the previous Government and I hope that that work is continuing under the current Government. Secondly, does the Minister intend to use the Hague preference during the negotiations later this month? Thirdly, what update can he give us in relation to the attempts—attempts that began under the previous Government and that I hope will be continued under this Government—to protect blue fin tuna? That is a very important international issue, stretching outside of EU issues and involving fisheries more widely. Moreover, what discussions has he had, or is he planning to have, with his Maltese, French and Italian counterparts?

Given that other Members wish to speak, I will curtail my remarks there.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tom Greatrex Excerpts

Thursday 4th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paice]

I have had no specific discussions or meetings on the matter, nor have I received any specific representations, but it has arisen in other discussions that I have had with animal welfare lobbies, which have all put their views forward. I should point out that, as I understand it, a planning application has not even been made yet. That will be a planning issue, and I cannot comment on the detail.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am sure that the Minister will share my disquiet at the reported comments by the Icelandic negotiator last week. Will he do everything in his power to ensure that next week’s meeting of the North East Atlantic Fisheries Commission is used as another vehicle to try to find a solution to the dispute about the mackerel quota in the North sea, which is vital to many communities in Scotland?

[Richard Benyon]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we will use any means possible to resolve the issue, which has wider implications. Iceland is going through a process of accession to the Europe Union, and it seems a strange way to behave to tear up the rule book before joining the club. We are using a variety of mechanisms to try to put pressure on Iceland to operate in a sustainable way and protect a sustainable stock.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tom Greatrex Excerpts

Thursday 9th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paice]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and I accept his comment. The point of deregulation and the role of the taskforce is to simplify the burden, not to lower standards. I cannot repeat that too many times. We have no intention of reducing the protection for hedgerows. I was as concerned as my hon. Friend about them, but if we look at the issue carefully, we will find that many of the hedgerows have been removed not by farmers—in fact, they have been planting a lot more in the last decade—but as a result of development and local government actions.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

10. What recent discussions she has had with the European Commission on mackerel quota.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

In addition to a conversation I had on a one-to-one basis with the European Commissioner Maria Damanaki, I wrote to her on 10 August about the north-east Atlantic mackerel fishery, in particular to express my deep concerns about Iceland’s and the Faroe Islands’ total allowable catch for this species. The UK Government are working closely with the industry and the EU Commission to put pressure on Iceland and the Faroes to behave reasonably.

[Tom Greatrex]

I thank the Minister for that reply. I urge him to continue those efforts and to ensure that he interacts with the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation and other fishing organisations in Scotland. Although this is not an issue in my constituency, it is a matter of concern to people across Scotland when an industry of such historical importance—and local importance in the north-east of Scotland—is potentially being undermined by the activities of Iceland.

[Richard Benyon]

That is a very good point. I had a conversation yesterday with Richard Lochhead and other Ministers from the devolved Assembly. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we are working very closely with them, as with the fisheries organisations, to deal with the unreasonable actions of the Iceland Government and the Faroes. If they go ahead with this unilaterally declared total allowable catch, they will put a sustainable stock in a very dangerous position. I assure the hon. Gentleman that I am using every means I can to work with colleagues across the UK and with the Commission to make sure that this serious situation is dealt with. I agree that 90% of the relevant jobs are in the north-east of Scotland, which is why I am working closely with the Minister from the devolved Scottish Government on the issue.