Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Debate between Tom Gordon and Adam Jogee

Report stage
Friday 13th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Adam Jogee]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention—it teaches me not to take them. I also thank him for helping my street cred this morning. He raises an important point.

Members of this House have been told that this Bill—it is this Bill we are voting on, not the principle—was rigorously tested and refined in Committee. However, we are now seeing efforts to undermine the decisions of that same Committee. Amendments 94 and 95 serve the singular purpose of undoing amendments introduced in Committee to improve the Bill and make it a safer and more conventional piece of legislation, but their implications go beyond just that: they challenge the basic tenets of our democracy.

One of the key roles at the heart of our democratic system is the role of the or a Minister of the Crown. It is our Ministers who prepare the groundwork for legislation to be enacted successfully, and amendments 94 and 95 would completely do away with that core ministerial function. They would see the responsibility for ensuring the roll-out of assisted dying in Wales—the power that we the people entrust to our Ministers and democracy—taken away from them. [Interruption.]

Conscious of your cough, Madam Deputy Speaker, I shall quickly move towards the end of my remarks—I have taken half of them out already. In my view, Ministers should be able to lead the roll-out of assisted dying in Wales, just as they should in England. It is Ministers, not the supporters of the Bill, who will be responsible for delivering these seismic changes to our health and legal systems, so it is only right that they decide when the provisions become law. Amendment 42 would put England back on an even footing with Wales.

Getting this right is literally a matter of life and death. It makes sense to avoid any possible pressure on decision making and decision makers and, at the very least, allow Ministers to enact legislation with the usual constitutional powers. One death because of a rushed decision would be one too many and should give us all food for thought. I do not want it on my conscience that our collective sticking to an arbitrary deadline led to a death or deaths that may otherwise have not taken place. We must recognise that we can prevent any such situation, and we can prevent that with our vote today. To do so, we must remove the deadline for automatic commencement in England and uphold it in Wales. I urge Members to support my amendment 42 and to vote against amendments 94 and 95.

[Tom Gordon (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (LD)]

I rise to speak to amendment 3 in my name, which would do the exact opposite of the amendments of the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Adam Jogee)—in fact, it would see the commencement period reduced from four years to three years. As a member of the Bill Committee, when we had the initial conversation about increasing the commencement period from two years to four years, I was the only person to speak against it, and I pushed it to a vote.

What frustrates me about the situation we are in is that, in effect, we are acknowledging that the reason we are here and debating this Bill is that the status quo is not acceptable. People are pushed to taking decisions that they should not be and having to go to foreign countries to have opportunities overseas. Those of us who support the Bill are broadly in agreement on those principles. A number of things frustrate me about the four-year period, principally that the people in office—the Government of the day—will not necessarily be here to implement it. I am really hesitant about supporting a Bill when we do not know who would see through those details.

Amendment 3 would reduce the threshold back down to three years, which would still be more than most jurisdictions around the world. Countries have implemented assisted dying legislation after as short a time as six months, 12 months or 18 months, so three years would still be a substantial increase compared with other countries. We are not innovators or leaders in this field: there is no reason why we cannot take best practice and learn from and speak to colleagues around the world. I believe that this Bill has the strongest safeguards of any, which is why I think an implementation period of three years would more than meet the requirements.