Trade Union Bill (Second sitting)

Tom Blenkinsop Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Public Bill Committees

[James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)]

Q 117 It is a pleasure to serve under you for the first time, Sir Alan.

Thank you, Julia, for coming in. I have read many of your organisation’s reports; they are incredibly authoritative and look at many wider issues of health, including stress. The nub of this Bill—the biggest issue—is when cities and economies are paralysed by major strikes that are called on a low turnout. I think that is the biggest issue out there for the man or woman in the street. Those days are incredibly stressful for people who have to reorganise their childcare and who cannot get a train, so that they have to stand in a rugby scrum to get on a bus. But it is a serious point—commuting is one of the most stressful activities that we now do—and so I would like to have your thoughts on whether we can make life easier for people and have less stress by having fewer such disturbances.

Julia Manning: Yes, I agree with you, and that stress applies not only to those who are working in the system, but to those who expect to be treated on that particular day. There are known risks already. I can draw from my own experience of people who have been referred, for instance, for cataract operations for sight loss and have had them postponed again, either because the staff cannot get there or because other staff—usually not directly the doctors, but those who facilitate the care—have taken action.

I recognise that that has been the exception rather than the rule in the NHS. I see that the repercussions of action taken by others, for instance in the transport sector, have a greater knock-on effect and a more direct impact than any action taken by the health service personnel themselves. But the scenario in which someone does not get treated for whatever reason and then has a fall—the worst-case scenario being that which results in their death—can be prevented. If we can put something in place so that that is less likely to happen, I would welcome that.

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

Q 118 I was going to ask a question, but you actually answered it in your previous response about the exception to the rule in relation to how industrial action might affect access to services for patients. How often, in your opinion, do the exceptional circumstances that you are coming out with actually happen?

Julia Manning: I only looked back to 1982, I think; so for prior to 1982, I could not tell you.

[Stephen Doughty]

Q 119 Going back to the fundamentals of why you are appearing and giving evidence today, why did you think you were called to give evidence on the Bill? Why were you asked as a Government witness? Has your organisation lobbied for the Bill and the measures in it? Have you been meeting with Ministers arguing for the measures in the Bill?

Julia Manning: No, but we have a strong record on representing patient interests, talking about the patient experience and considering the wider landscape of change in legislation in terms of trends in population—

--- Later in debate ---

[James Cartlidge]

No further questions.

[Tom Blenkinsop]

Q 212 I have a question for Mr Isaby. Basically, are you aware that large private sector companies use check-off quite regularly?

Jonathan Isaby: Yes, of course, but that is their affair. They are private companies, so it is not taxpayers’ money.

[Tom Blenkinsop]

Q 213 Are you aware that companies such as Tata and other large industrial companies use it?

Jonathan Isaby: Yes.

[Tom Blenkinsop]

Q 214 Mr Wilson’s company, Abellio, is a private-sector company that provides a public service. Would it be counted under your logic as liable or able to use check-off?

Jonathan Isaby: I think it is a very interesting area, which TPA is keen to look at. You have private-sector bodies delivering using taxpayers’ money. This gets into the realms of freedom of information. Organisations that are spending taxpayers’ money should be subject to similar rules and standards as in the public sector.

[Tom Blenkinsop]

Q 215 A final question, just so that the Government Whip does not get too irate. Mr Wilson—Mr Isaby, you can give your response as well—commercially, would you prefer to deal with one central voice that represents a collective bargaining unit or undergo individual consultation with every single employee?

[The Chair]

Order. Just before we finish, Mr Argar, you can ask a quick question, which can be replied to in writing, but please keep it brief.