Global Combat Air Programme Treaty

Tobias Ellwood Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Grant Shapps]

It is not, simply for the reason that the projects in there may or may not go ahead. The largest increase in that budget was to do with the nuclear enterprise, which we all know the hon. Gentleman does not approve of in the first place because he does not want us to have that ultimate security of constant nuclear defence at sea. We are totally committed to that, and will make sure that it always exists.

The hon. Gentleman asked a good question about Saudi or any other country’s engagement. A programme of this nature is of great interest to many other nations. We receive constant inquiries. The Saudis have been partners with us in air combat for many decades—since Margaret Thatcher’s time at this Dispatch Box. We will see how their interest develops. He mentioned Yemen in relation to Saudi Arabia. Surprisingly, he completely failed to mention that Houthis from Yemen have been attacking ships, including the British ship HMS Diamond, which fired down one of their unmanned aerial vehicles this weekend.

The reality, as ever, is that the hon. Gentleman misunderstands the global context. We will back our RAF to have sixth-generation aircraft capable of being the best in the world.

[Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con)]

This is a really exciting announcement, and I congratulate the Defence Secretary. As we procure the sixth generation, we will become a leading nation in advancing air capability. Our world has turned a dark corner and has become more angry. It is right that we collaborate internationally—that is the way forward in upgrading our defence posture. He did not mention how many airframes he planned or hoped to build—perhaps that was deliberate. He did mention the F-35B. We originally wanted more than 130 of those, but we might be lucky to get half that. As has been said, the world will look very different in 2035, and we will need more F-35s. Can he confirm how many of those airframes will be procured? I do not apologise for saying this again and again: is it now time to increase our defence budget to 2.5%?

[Grant Shapps]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his points. He is right that having a sixth-generation aircraft in our fleet will ensure that we keep ahead. He will know that Typhoons are at four and a half, and the F-35B is a very capable fifth-generation aircraft. Our current plan is to have 48 by 2025, and another 27 after that. For 2035, it is not possible right now to provide an exact number of a sixth-generation aircraft that is yet to be designed and built. As my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) pointed out, we do not know quite what the shape of air war will be at the time, particularly with drones, swarms and many other developments. We do know that air combat will continue to be vital in future, and that we will have the best form of air combat available through GCAP.