Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Jack Dromey

Monday 9th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

Operational decisions are taken by the police, but I seem to recall that the police and crime commissioner in Greater Manchester is a former colleague of the hon. Gentleman on the Labour Benches. Perhaps he should talk to him about it.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Rather than reduce unnecessary bureaucracy and make sensible savings, the Home Secretary has chosen to inflict the biggest cuts to our police service of any country in Europe. Government figures out today show a sharp dip of 23% in the number of traffic police, and an increase in road deaths, including a 6% increase for children. Does she accept that she is letting the motorist down, and that under her tenure our roads are now less safe?

[Mrs May]

No. The hon. Gentleman comments on the cuts made to police budgets, but those cuts were necessary—as were spending cuts across the public sector—because of the situation left by the last Labour Government when we were left facing such a big deficit.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Jack Dromey

Monday 27th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. It is interesting that the Opposition always refuse to accept that good policing is about how the police are deployed, rather than overall numbers. We understand that, and so do chief constables, which is why, I am pleased to say, we are seeing the effectiveness of police constables and the work their officers are doing up and down the country in reducing crime.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

To be a victim of violent crime is traumatic. To see one’s assailant not brought to book adds insult to injury. With 7,000 fewer crimes of violence against the person solved under this Government, does the Home Secretary accept that this is the inevitable consequence of the combination of the biggest cuts in local government history and the cutting of 10,000 police officers from the front line: more violent criminals getting off scot-free?

[Mrs May]

No, I do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s premise. Labour Front Benchers often quote detection rates. Of course, we have seen the number of crimes fall, and that has an impact on the number of detections.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Jack Dromey

Monday 2nd December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I am happy to tell my hon. Friend that the Home Office does ensure that there are rules about what particular crimes should be recorded. This is a matter that will be looked at, and is looked at, by Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary. Under our new arrangements, the police and crime commissioners have, in at least one case, taken action. In Kent, the PCC asked HMIC to come in and look at the recording of crime to see whether there were any problems and to ensure that lessons were learned.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

In an unprecedented step commissioned by the Opposition and a royal commission in all but name, Lord Stevens reported last week with the most comprehensive analysis in half a century of British policing. He sounds the warning bell that the Government’s reforms, and cuts to the front line—10,460—and partnership working risk returning our police service to a discredited model of reactive policing. Does the Home Secretary agree with Lord Stevens and does she support his recommendation that there should be a guaranteed level of neighbourhood policing? It is what works and it is what local people want.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Jack Dromey

Monday 28th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. I had informal discussions about the use of body-worn cameras at the college of policing last week. I am pleased to say that a number of forces have piloted the use of such cameras. The college will look at best practice so it can ensure they are used as effectively as possible. They will not only reduce the bureaucracy that the police are involved with, but provide greater and enhanced ability to deal with crimes and provide the evidence in criminal circumstances. They will also benefit officers when accusations are made about their behaviour—often, the body-worn camera will show when such accusations are not correct.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Crime has fallen overall thanks to the development of neighbourhood policing under a Labour Government. With the thin blue line stretched ever thinner, there are disturbing signs of a generation of progress in some areas being reversed. Since the general election, shoplifting is up in 23 police areas and mugging is up in 15 police areas. There has been a staggering 44% increase in mugging in London. Does the Home Secretary therefore share the concerns of Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary that that which has proved to be so successful and is so valued by communities throughout our country—neighbourhood policing—“risks being eroded”?

[Mrs May]

May I first welcome the hon. Gentleman to his new role on the Opposition Front Bench? I am not sure that his question was the best approach for him to take. I am very sorry that he has failed to recognise the work being done by police officers and staff around the country to ensure that overall levels of crime have fallen since 2010. I would hope he welcomes the work they are doing. HMIC has made it clear that forces, in taking the budget cuts, have focused on ensuring front-line resilience. That is a very good example of how it is possible to do more for less.

Olympics (Security)

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Jack Dromey

Monday 16th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

The contract is obviously between LOCOG and G4S, but LOCOG has been party to discussions over time as we have been revising the numbers required, as all hon. Members know. The HMIC report that I commissioned last year was into LOCOG’s arrangements. LOCOG responded to that and made changes as necessary.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Hundreds of West Midlands police officers have been asked to stand in for G4S because its security guards have simply not turned up. The public have confidence in our police service but no confidence in G4S, yet the Home Secretary has spent £4 million promoting privatisation of essential police services, the principal beneficiary of which would be G4S. In the light of the Olympics debacle, will she now abandon her reckless plans?

[Mrs May]

It is not a reckless plan for police forces to look to ensure that they make the best use of their budgets, so that they can put as much money as possible not into back-office functions, but into getting police out on the streets.

Government Reductions in Policing

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Jack Dromey

Monday 4th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Will the Home Secretary give way?

[Mrs May]

No. I shall make some more progress.

I have made the point about the bureaucracy, but what we have done is just the start. Working with the police, we are looking at sweeping away a wide range of the red tape, bureaucracy and paperwork that get in the way of officers doing what they want to do—getting out on the streets and keeping us safe.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend also makes an important and valid point. I will come on to such issues in a few minutes.

[Jack Dromey]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs May]

I will make some progress before I give way to any other interventions.

Our reforms are also based on the premise that the police must be accountable not to civil servants in Whitehall, but to the communities that they serve. Last Thursday, the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill completed its passage through the House. It is our hope that it will complete its passage through the Lords and receive Royal Assent in time for elections for police and crime commissioners to take place next year.

During the Committee stage of the Bill, the Opposition helpfully conceded the principle that we need democratic reform in policing, but their idea is just to add elections on top of the existing ineffective structures by having elected police authority chairs, which would add to the costs without bringing any of the benefits. Under our proposals, police and crime commissioners will have the power to set the police budget, determine local policing priorities and hold their chief constables to account. If they do not cut crime and help keep their communities safe, they will face the ultimate sanction of rejection at the ballot box.

However, slashing Labour’s bureaucracy and increasing accountability is not enough. The police will have to take their fair share of the cuts across Government to clear up Labour’s financial mess, so direct savings and efficiencies are also needed.

[Jack Dromey]

I am grateful to the Home Secretary. Last week five west midlands police officers with a total service of 163 years spoke out about the harm that will be done to the front line on which they have served all their life. If the Home Secretary wants to hear the voice of front-line police officers, will she agree to meet those five police officers?

[Mrs May]

I am very happy to visit police forces, as I do, to talk to police officers across the board, and to hear directly what they are saying. When I next make a trip to the West Midlands force, I am very happy for the hon. Gentleman to arrange for me to meet those five officers. I am sure I will be meeting other officers as well.

It is important that we ensure that we make changes within our police force so that we have the police force that we need to face the 21st century, but it is also important that we make sure that taxpayers’ money is spent effectively. Our starting point for savings is the report by HMIC, “Valuing the Police” which estimated that £1.15 billion per year could be saved if only the least efficient forces brought themselves up to the average level of efficiency.

However, the fiscal deficit left by Labour is so dire that bringing all forces up to the average level is no longer enough—forces must go further. We must raise the performance of all our police forces up to the level not of the average, but of the most efficient forces. If forces improve productivity and adjust to the level of spend typical in the most efficient forces, we could add another £350 million to the £1.15 billion of savings that HMIC calculated.

This sort of thing is already happening. In Suffolk and Norfolk the police forces are creating a shared service platform for their back-office support functions, saving around £10 million per year. In Kent, as my hon. Friend the Member for Rochester and Strood (Mark Reckless) who serves on the Kent police authority made clear, the police are streamlining and rationalising support services, enabling them to put more into the front line. The Kent force is also collaborating with Essex police to make savings and allow more resources to be devoted to the front line.

In London the Metropolitan police are getting more officers to patrol alone, rather than in pairs, and are better matching resources to demand in neighbourhood policing, increasing officer availability to the public by 25%. In Gloucestershire the police are putting 15% more sergeants and constables into visible policing roles and increasing the numbers of officers on the beat, at the same time as they are making savings. These examples show that it can be done and it must be done.

There were other aspects that were outside the remit of the HMIC report. I know that members of the Opposition Front-Bench team have not read everything that was in that report, so let me spell it out to them. HMIC did not look at the savings that could be made by joining up police procurement and IT, for example. Currently, the police have 2,000 different IT systems across the 43 forces, employing 5,000 staff. As my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Claire Perry) said, the police currently procure items from uniforms to helicopters in 43 different ways. That makes no sense.

Working with the police, we have already secured their agreement that the right way forward is a national, joined-up approach, with better contracts, more joint purchasing, a smaller number of different IT systems and greater private sector involvement. With these changes we can save a further £350 million. Again, that is over and above the savings that HMIC identified.

Disturbances (London)

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Jack Dromey

Monday 28th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

The only march I have been on was that Countryside Alliance march. It was notable that it was entirely peaceful and that virtually no litter was left afterwards. Everyone cleared up and made their point in entirely the proper way.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

On a day when the House should be standing united in opposition to boys in black masks who disgrace the traditions of democracy in our country, will the Home Secretary dissociate herself from the Mayor when he said:

“Balls and Miliband…will be content to see the police being unfairly attacked on all sides”?

[Mrs May]

The House is indeed united in saying that we should praise the work of the police and condemn the acts of violence by the perpetrators of criminal acts on Saturday.

Public Order Policing

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Jack Dromey

Monday 13th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

Of course the Metropolitan police look at what happens in any demonstration, decide whether they need to use different tactics and look to see what lessons can be learned from the previous one. That is entirely right and proper, but decisions about the tactics that will be used for any demonstration are operational matters for the Metropolitan police.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

The Home Secretary was reported yesterday as appearing to contemplate the use of water cannon; today, she appears to be ruling out the use of water cannon. Will she clarify this beyond any doubt: will she rule out the use of water cannon on British streets?

[Mrs May]

I made it clear in my earlier comments that I do not think anybody wants water cannon used on British streets. What I said in the interview yesterday is that the Metropolitan police will of course look at the range of tactics available to them to consider whether there is any tactic not yet used that they might wish to use. Currently, as I speak here today, the legal position is that water cannon are not approved for use on the streets of England and Wales. If the hon. Gentleman had listened carefully to my interview yesterday, he would have heard me make the point that we have a different approach to policing in this country from what is seen in many continental countries. I have reiterated that view in my statement today and in further responses to the questions put to me. In Britain, we police by consent, which depends on the link of trust between the police and the public—and long may that continue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Jack Dromey

Monday 1st November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

The Home Secretary was reluctant yesterday to confirm the consequences of Government cuts for the police service. Will she give a straight answer to that question today, and confirm that 2,000 jobs will go in the west midlands police service, including those of 400 police officers in Birmingham—40 for each of Birmingham’s 10 constituencies —and does she share my constituents’ fears that, as police numbers fall, crime will go up?

[Mrs May]

The fight against crime is not simply a matter of the number of police officers, but about how effectively they are deployed and what they are doing. What the Government are doing by releasing police officers from the bureaucracy imposed by the last Labour Government will make them freer and more available to be out there on the streets doing the job the public want them to do.